Creative Financing In a Nutshell

Creative Financing In a Nutshell

Real Estate Broker · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 28 votes

Creative Financing
In a Nutshell
Part One of ?
_______________________

There are No Rules as to how you can or cannot structure your creative financing deals, other than what is legal, moral, ethical and using the guidelines found here
Creative real estate financing is not business as usual. You will be met with skepticism from critics who practice traditional financing usually real estate agents, attorneys, your friends family and the like. Mostly those that have never even purchased real estate. I can hear them now. You can't do that! It’s illegal it's risky.
Risk Taking. A while back I overheard an interview with Pulitzer prize author Jane Smiley talking about her book Horse Heaven. Jane related that our whole economy is based on a willingness to take risks. She's absolutely correct. There's risk in any business transaction. Creative financing has risk, most notably the due on sale clause, which is the core of these lessons. We will spend considerable time showing you how to beat, minimize and shift the risk of the due on clause.
Legal? There's nothing illegal in any of the methods employed here. These blogs is written for the state of California if you don’t at least have a basic understanding of the real estate principals and real estate financing applicable to your state, I suggest you go to your public library, book store, amazon.com, whatever and get a copy of the real estate principals, financing and laws that apply to your state. Although real estate laws go back to the feudal times in England and are fairly consistent there can be and are subtle and major differences from state to state.
Do I need a college education to buy real estate without cash or credit? If your able to read and understand these postings your in.

Can you still buy with No Money down? The definitive answer. Yes and No. It depends. The no money or nothing down deals are out there, they're just harder to find and have to be approached differently. (When this latest bubble bursts and it will...Creative financing will come into its own again.)
No Money Down?
Think of buying with no money down as 100% financing. In other words you're going to borrow all or most of the money needed to purchase the property.

Here's what I mean. You find a suitable property for let's say $100,000 the seller owes the bank $75,000 how to we purchase the property? You offer to take the property "subject to" the existing bank loan, and ask the seller to loan you some of his $25,000 equity by holding a note for $12,500 called a wrap or an AITD all inclusive trust deed.

Then you borrow another $12,500 from a third party who you would give a note secured by a second mortgage on the property as security for the down payment money.

Congratulations you just purchased a property for 100% financing or no money down.
I should mention here that most of you will have different reasons for needing the information found in these postings. Maybe you have good credit but no money. Or you have the money for a down payment but no credit.

Buyers verses sellers will want to use different approaches Whatever your particular need these blogs will address all of the techniques available to you to purchase and sell real estate creatively without cash credit or banks.
Use the information found here to assist you in filling the missing need in making your real estate purchase

The example used above is just one of the many ways the purchase could have been accomplished. However, by using other no money down or creative financing techniques such as a land contract, a lease option or equity sharing may be advantageous for you as a buyer or seller. We will explore all of these techniques in detail and more in subsequent postings.

But no mater what technique you're going to use you want to make sure it's a win win for the both of you, however the one with the better knowledge of creative financing will ultimately come out on top. So it's very important that you have an understanding of your creative financing options so that you as the buyer or seller and not the other party can use the correct or best way to structure the deal.
My lessons favors the buyer and will first point out their best approach and secondly the sellers approach. You as buyer or seller will have to determine the technique that works best for your situation. With that said let's get to it....Next time
If you need any help structuring any type of deal give me a shout
Bill

0Reply
63 views

Most Popular Reply

Dion DePaoliPro Member
Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y

Perhaps for the readers you can address the more important ideas that come with this plan of not recording things:

  1. Concealment = "...in any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States...knowingly conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact" - LINK
  2. Duty of California Licensed Broker to Disclose = Suggesting to not disclose for the purpose of concealment seems to go against California Broker Code of Conduct. The sole reason you are suggesting to not record said transfer seems to be for the purpose of concealing the sale from an interest party, the Mortgagee. Not to mention the county for re-assessment of property taxation.
  3. How about offsetting the other potential felonies that can arise such as mail fraud, racketeering, false statements (HUD & Conventional)

To suggest a transaction that may come to head with a DOS clause is one thing, however to purposely create or direct actions to conceal such an event is entirely different.

The common guru counter-argument is there is no Due on Sale jail. That is correct however, there is jail and punishments for these other actions which go hand in hand with these types of schemes. Any time something fails a Full Disclosure Test, it is not a good idea and can lead to harm. This is not prudent or sound advice.

If a party wishes to knowingly enter into a Subject To transaction, they should not scheme to avoid the ramifications for entering into such a transaction especially for the sake of avoiding things like taxes or infringe upon the rights of other interested parties.

See this reply in the discussion

18 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Dion DePaoliPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Creative finance and nutshell is sort of an oxymoron, don't you think?

    "You find a suitable property for let's say $100,000 the seller owes the bank $75,000 how to we purchase the property? You offer to take the property "subject to" the existing bank loan, and ask the seller to loan you some of his $25,000 equity by holding a note for $12,500 called a wrap or an AITD all inclusive trust deed."

    Is this "creative"? Yes, as it is not conventional.

    Does the property owner, who has already granted an interest in the real property the first mortgagee, "loan" you his equity? Not really, you are buying it, he financed you buying it.

    "Then you borrow another $12,500 from a third party who you would give a note secured by a second mortgage on the property as security for the down payment money."

    This mortgagee would actually be in third position according to your plan, not second. 1st Mortgage is original lender that was not satisfied and is the superior party in the Subject To. 2nd Mortgage is the property owner who you asked to finance the sale of the property. 3rd Mortgage is the other party who lends the difference.

    Perhaps you are trying to roll these positions into one with the idea of AITD, however they are still separate positions in title, are they?

    Why would someone want to be in third position on a Subject To transaction?

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Dion, position of who's head gets chopped off first I don't see as an issue, you're right that a Sub-2 seller is financing the amount they have financed.

    What is suggested, isn't creative financing, piling up loans isn't creative, but dangerous, especially in a Sub-2 with an underlying mortgage.

    Unless you have the ability to pay off a Sub-2, by selling or refinancing quickly, it's not prudent to go there.

    If the 1st is called, the lender forecloses your second lender looses.

    Next, what lender would loan to 100% without other significant assurances?

    That implies that you have an unsophisticated 2nd lender, that brings other issues of liability. You get granny to make that second and she gets messed over, I'm pretty sure you're had.

    There are other aspects as to the interest acquired in a Sub-2, you are in title as a buyer and you can encumber your interest and cloud good title, this requires a filing in the RE records and is another violation under the first with the transfer of interests by a third party, you, as the buyer. It's an additional notice to the first lender giving cause to look at the due on sale. Not just a poke in one eye but both eyes!

    Bill, I visited your profile. I see you are an author, I like good authors.

    This site is not your average RE site, it's rather anti-guru. Authors of RE material with poor advice, often illegal advice, especially in areas of finance find that advocating such doesn't go over well. We see through hype quickly, just FYI.

    We love creative ideas that are ethical, prudent, legal and that can be duplicated in reality.

    You mentioned too that you have a law degree, that's great, but are you an attorney, that is the implication when someone on an RE site assumes that, here, we see a law degree as being of counsel. So, what's your CA. Bar number? A law degree can be in various aspects of law and seeing that you were in law enforcement, I'm thinking you have a degree in one of these law enforcement areas, not as an attorney. That's also my bet as a good attorney wouldn't be suggesting what you have posted above, IMO.

    I suggest you not even get into Contract For Deeds, that will just blown off this site.

    Again, welcome to BP, might be a good idea to catch the flavor of this site before blasting in as an expert in any financing matter. ,

    Good luck! :)

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
    Dion, position of who's head gets chopped off first I don't see as an issue, you're right that a Sub-2 seller is financing the amount they have financed.

    What is suggested, isn't creative financing, piling up loans isn't creative, but dangerous, especially in a Sub-2 with an underlying mortgage.

    Unless you have the ability to pay off a Sub-2, by selling or refinancing quickly, it's not prudent to go there.

    If the 1st is called, the lender forecloses your second lender looses.

    Next, what lender would loan to 100% without other significant assurances?

    That implies that you have an unsophisticated 2nd lender, that brings other issues of liability. You get granny to make that second and she gets messed over, I'm pretty sure you're had.

    There are other aspects as to the interest acquired in a Sub-2, you are in title as a buyer and you can encumber your interest and cloud good title, this requires a filing in the RE records and is another violation under the first with the transfer of interests by a third party, you, as the buyer. It's an additional notice to the first lender giving cause to look at the due on sale. Not just a poke in one eye but both eyes!

    Bill, I visited your profile. I see you are an author, I like good authors.

    This site is not your average RE site, it's rather anti-guru. Authors of RE material with poor advice, often illegal advice, especially in areas of finance find that advocating such doesn't go over well. We see through hype quickly, just FYI.

    We love creative ideas that are ethical, prudent, legal and that can be duplicated in reality.

    You mentioned too that you have a law degree, that's great, but are you an attorney, that is the implication when someone on an RE site assumes that, here, we see a law degree as being of counsel. So, what's your CA. Bar number? A law degree can be in various aspects of law and seeing that you were in law enforcement, I'm thinking you have a degree in one of these law enforcement areas, not as an attorney. That's also my bet as a good attorney wouldn't be suggesting what you have posted above, IMO.

    I suggest you not even get into Contract For Deeds, that will just blown off this site.

    Again, welcome to BP, might be a good idea to catch the flavor of this site before blasting in as an expert in a

    Bill, are you saying that this is illegal or not "creative"?

    Or would trigger cloud?

    I am confused how this works. How does 25k turn into 3 levels @ 12500 each...or I am reading wrong.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Matt, need to drop down out of the quote for your comments, hard to find what you were asking as it looks like my post. :)

    Not really creative, piling loans on. It would require dealing with an unsophisticated second lender in reality, if one were honest in explaining risks, there would, with a reasonable person, probably need to be some omissions of facts to get that lender to lend, then not only do you have ethical issues but you could be crossing into fraudulently presenting the deal. Now, your grandmother may not be prudent or reasonable as she loves you and might make the loan.

    CFD's are rather dead as there are recent issues with circumventing foreclosure laws and rights of redemption by filing a deed in lieu of foreclosure upon default. It's an issue of a wrongful foreclosure. :)

  • Orlando, FL · Member since 2013 · 165 posts · 62 votes
    12y

    Hey Bill I'm with you. Who knows why the seller will agree to certain terms. Who knows why the buyer will agree. With creative financing the only rules are what you stated above. Maybe there are no payments on that third mortgage. If there are no payments , we don't have to worry about default. Maybe the buyer is buying the house for fifty per cent of market value. Maybe if we try to think of reasons why creative financing will work instead of reasons why it won't work, it will work more often.

    Borrowing money from the BANK is like buying retail.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Perhaps, the issue comes mainly from old ideas by those with absolutely no formal understanding of financing, thinking that creative means doing anything unconventional, changing the elements of a financing agreement without understanding the ramifications of changes or an approach. A bit of that "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction".

    Usually what we get are those with a little knowledge and twisting circumstances to justify a method. The reason many methods sound so attractive is that they presume unrealistic situations, they offer what someone wants to hear and often ignores basic points of law, arm's length transactions, imputed interest rates, usury, rights of redemption and the list goes on. Then there are the issues of misusing terms to slide ideas past, buying under market value, claiming instant equity on a deal and financing blue sky as an acceptable collateral amount.

    Lots of wild ideas, presented with a somewhat twisted logic, a dash of hype and ignorance of the consequences is where most are in suggesting "creative financing".

    I do like other people's money over bank financing in some cases, especially in the short term, which can be up to 5 years, but banks usually have a better solution long term. Private money has many issues that are often overlooked, people die, they become incapacitated, go bankrupt, get sued, get divorced and circumstances change where they can become difficult to deal with when they want their money back, banks usually don't have such issues. They other thing is that just because you can get someone to agree to something doesn't mean it will be judged to be fair, equitable, reasonable, prudent, ethical, lawful, compliant or acceptable to some judge. Customary carries more weight in enforcing any agreement than imagination.

    But, that's what gets attention and ultimately turned into some product, showing something new, different, profitable, unusual or that little know secret method presented with a skewed interpretation of reality or accepted thinking. :)

  • Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    My real estate Mentor/Teacher has a similar story. What he did was the homeowner wanted to move and she owed lets say $50K on the property. The property needed around $20K to get the property ready to flip. He offered to take up her mortgage payments but she was to make the next 2 months payments. He and another investor fixed the home and sold it before the 2months had come to an end. They made $60K on the deal and the homeowner got to re-locate and she didn't foreclose.

  • Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    Another option for Creative financing. When looking at a property espically with homeowners there are many ways you can creatively purchase a home. What i do is i'll make 3 offers. The first offer will be all cash (this offer will be the lowest). The Second will be owner financing. They finance the property. I pay a low monthly payment with no interest. I then can rent the home for more than what i'm paying the homeowner. Or i will offer a part cash upfront and then payments. All 3 offers will be at different purchase prices. The best i can hope for is the owner agreeing to let me purchase the home paying him a fixed monthly payment. I ad in 3 clauses to this so that i can rent it or sell it and still have no interest financing. I'm willing to offer sometimes full asking price if they will do owner financing. Why? Because there is no huge out of pocket expenses. I can pay him a low monthly payment for 10 years and i can turn around and rent the property out for more than the mortgage. Or i can fix the home and flip it and with low mtg payments.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    You're screwing the seller, imputed taxes on no interest financing, if you fail to inform the seller in your presentation and sales pitch, he could have an actionable cause against you for your claims and dealings.

    I've always used the KISS method so as not to confuse a seller, my first offer is my best deal for me, then if turned down, I counter with other offers, you can end up better off than tipping your hand as to how far you're willing to go or as to another option. A rather boring and conventional approach that works. :)

  • Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    Mr. Gulley,
    I am not screwing anybody. If you explain everything in great detail. Let them know that you can take cash or a payment plan that will be paid out over 5 years. Either way they are getting the money. You set the rules. If they don't except your offer then you move on. I'm not trying to fool anyone or dupe anyone. I believe in doing the right thing no matter what. What i'm suggesting is paying them their asking price but with no interest. So instead of paying them $19K cash now i'm paying them $40K cash divided over 5 years. When i sell the property they get their full money. If i rent it for the entire time they still get their money. I'm all about a boring and conventional approach that works. I might have explained the method poorly but in our business your doing the seller a favor. Most people i meet are either about to go into foreclosure or own the property outright and want to get out. Either way i treat both the same. If you want to sell me your property my offers will be the same. If you want interest i am willing to negotiate. Everything is worked into the price and everyone has been happy. I've never had someone upset or try to sue me.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    @Jon H. , what I meant was you are causing the seller tax problems with imputed interest rates, you never mentioned that so I assume you are unaware. Have them charge interest and net it out in the price it would be the same thing.

    There are way too many folks out there truly believe they are the masters of creative financing and aren't aware of underlying issues.

    Jon, it could be too that the price range you deal in may present fewer issues, amounts the seller gets hit with may not be worth seeing an attorney, it doesn't mean it's the right way or even an acceptable way of doing business.

    Never meant you were intentionally trying to screw anyone. Frankly, I blame the gurus and old RE operators passing on "creative financing" ideas. They make it sound like anything you can dream up makes a deal as a creatively financed transaction. They don't know what they don't know and so far, I've never seen or heard of any who propose any "creative financing" scheme that had any in depth finance background or knowledge. Nothing but deal makers using unconventional ideas, many of which are either illegal, unethical or cause unforeseen problems simply because they either lack knowledge or they don't care.

    Financing RE as we know it has been around about 700 years. RE is an economic factor that is under the scope of the finance industry, if you deal in RE you are working in the finance industry, RE is a sub-set of finance. RE financing is only a sliver of the finance industry. Finance is very structured and intertwined by rules, regulations, laws and acceptable practice, you have plenty of room to operate outside the box, so long as you stay inside the larger box.

    There are rules and laws as well as accepted practice. This doesn't mean everything must be done conventionally, seller financing can be very creatively created to solve problems. Jon, I agree with you that most investors would like to avoid conventional financing if they could, I also understand why, there are many reasons. But, investors aren't going to learn anything by hearing how someone pulled of some deal or how they may present things. No two transactions are the same, that means duplicating a deal can be hard to do, but there are basic methods employed. :)

  • Real Estate Broker · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 28 votes
    12y

    Happy New Year… I'd like to critique some of your comments shared above and perhaps give us some more bones to chew on

    Dion DePaoil writes:

    Creative finance and nutshell is sort of an oxymoron, don't you think?

    No here are examples of oxymoron's

    Great Depression

    Jumbo shrimp

    Cruel to be kind

    Pain for pleasure

    Clearly confused

    Act naturally

    Beautifully painful

    Painfully beautiful

    Deafening silence

    Pretty ugly

    Pretty fierce

    Pretty cruel

    Definitely maybe

    Living dead

    Walking dead

    Only choice

    Nutshell implies small, concise to the point

    "You find a suitable property for let's say $100,000 the seller owes the bank $75,000 how to we purchase the property? You offer to take the property "subject to" the existing bank loan, and ask the seller to loan you some of his $25,000 equity by holding a note for $12,500 called a wrap or an AITD all inclusive trust deed."

    Is this "creative"? Yes, as it is not conventional.

    Does the property owner, who has already granted an interest in the real property the first mortgagee, "loan" you his equity? Not really, you are buying it, he financed you buying it. That's a loan

    Bill Gulley writes

    Dion, position of who's head gets chopped off first I don't see as an issue, you're right that a Sub-2 seller is financing the amount they have financed.

    No they're financing their equity in a loan to the buyer.

    What is suggested, isn't creative financing, piling up loans isn't creative, but dangerous, especially in a Sub-2 with an underlying mortgage.

    The original question was… can you purchase real estate with Nothing Down.. This is just an example of how to purchase real estate using none of your own money

    There are other aspects as to the interest acquired in a Sub-2, you are in title as a buyer and you can encumber your interest and cloud good title,

    No… see how to safeguard the buyer and seller below

    this requires a filing in the RE records… No see below

    and is another violation under the first with the transfer of interests by a third party, you, as the buyer. It's an additional notice to the first lender giving cause to look at the due on sale. Not just a poke in one eye but both eyes!

    Is there anyway to get safely around the dreaded due on sale clause acceleration clause? While protecting the buyer and sellers interests? You Bet

    Here it is in a Nutshell. (This is what I use in California)

    The concept is to keep the fact that the property has been transferred private.

    The sales transaction remains unrecorded i.e. the deed is not recorded or the contract of sale or the financing agreement.

    The transaction is maintained in the records of a settlement /escrow management company

    Enough documentation is recorded to protect the seller and buyer in the chain of title without making the fact that the property was transferred public record

    Existing loans, taxes, insurance are paid by the buyer into a collection account, which in turn pays all the accounts required to service the property

    Recording a deed or contract is not required in most states to make a valid transfer

    Not disclosing the new sale to the underlying lender is not illegal in most states

    Keeping the transfer from the lender is not a crime or against the law. The act of the transfer is a breach of contract and only cause for the loan to be accelerated

    Gulley again

    Bill, I visited your profile. I see you are an author, I like good authors.

    This site is not your average RE site, it's rather anti-guru. Authors of RE material with poor advice, often illegal advice, especially in areas of finance find that advocating such doesn't go over well. We see through hype quickly, just FYI.

    I tell readers right from the beginning that they will be met with nay sayers…

    "You will be met with skepticism from critics who practice traditional financing usually real estate agents, attorneys, your friends family and the like. Mostly those that have never even purchased real estate. I can hear them now. You can't do that! It’s illegal it's risky."

    I also visited your profile Mr Gulley and Man you fit the mold

    We love creative ideas that are ethical, prudent, legal and that can be duplicated in reality.

    Not disclosing the new sale to the underlying lender is not illegal in most states

    Keeping the transfer from the lender is not a crime or against the law. The act of the transfer is a breach of contract and only cause for the loan to be accelerated

    I suggest you not even get into Contract For Deeds, that will just blown off this site.

    I'll be discussing basic approaches for buying real estate creatively.Some good and some not so good.Later I'll discuss the pros and cons of the best creative financing methods so you can determine which to use for your particular situation

    Land Contracts

    Options, Leases, Options to purchase

    AITD's (All inclusive trust deeds or wraps)

    Seller carry back deeds of trusts/mortgages

    Taking subject to the existing financing

    Not recording the deed, which is dangerous if not properly protected

    Recording a memorandum of agreement

    Trusts:Transfer the property to the sellers trust, get the bank to approve the transfer and then have the beneficiary of the sellers trust changed to the buyer.

    Just transferring title into the buyers name hoping the lender won't call the loan.

    Equity share

    Bill Gulley again

    CFD's are rather dead as there are recent issues with circumventing foreclosure laws and rights of redemption by filing a deed in lieu of foreclosure upon default. It's an issue of a wrongful foreclosure. :)

    Many Real Estate investors think that the regulation called The Dodd Frank
    Act which takes effect January 10th, 2014 will eliminate Creative/seller
    financing as we know it.

    Is Creative/seller financing dead because of Dodd Frank? *NO*


    Do you now have to be a licensed mortgage loan office to seller finance a

    property?* NO* but it's a good idea to hire one in certain circumstances ...

    Can you finance more than 3 properties as an investor? *YES*

    Dodd Frank is meant to safeguard people's personal residence...You only need
    to use it if your buyer is using it as their personal residence...If your
    selling to an investor no worries...The easiest and safest way to protect
    yourselfis to use a Mortgage Loan Originator in all your deals. For a
    nominal fee they make sure your deals comply with the law.

    As an investor you can sell i.e. finance three properties without Dodd
    Frank worries... I would use an LLC for each one.

  • Dion DePaoliPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Oh man, issues over all the place. A proper analogy to some of this is, can you stop a speeding train by standing in front of it on the tracks? Sure but the outcome is likely not favorable for you even though it stopped....eventually.

    As to the idea of equity, if I have something and sell it to you, you have bought it and you now own it. Therefore, you now have it. The Seller does not "loan" equity to the Buyer since a loan implies that something will be given back and the idea of possession per the post does not fit in that idea. A lender's right to possession are different from the owner's rights of possession. That said, in the scope here a small hair to split amongst the other ideas.

    The act of selling something where applicable state, county or federal taxes are involved, such as the conveyance of real property can fall under tax evasion. So the suggestion of not recording the conveyance of the real property can undermine the counties collection of taxes on the sale and taxes on the instrument not to mention any increase property taxation that would occur. Huge red flag.

    While recording is not required per state to determine rights to title, that is not the same as reporting for taxation. I do not even understand what you mean by this, "Enough documentation is recorded to protect the seller and buyer in the chain of title without making the fact that the property was transferred public record". What is "enough documentation" when you suggest not to record the documentation that documents the act?

    Just like in your loophole idea with the recording of deeds, there is no condition within Alienation Clauses or Due on Sale that mandates a recording. The text tends to say "Any conveyance of interest in whole or in part....", which doesn't imply said interest must be made public. It also would be within the Mortgagee's rights to inquire about such things and legally expect a truthful answer.

    Further, the lack of recording diminishes the security which would come with the instrument. Depending on the entity directing this event and recommendation, additional liability could be imputed. Convincing a Seller of something of this can fall under predatory practices.

    These are not objections to your ideas from "nay-sayers" who have never purchased real estate nor folks who have some limited understanding of RE finance.

    So as to my first line of my first post, we have encountered an oxymoron. There is no nutshell about this since we seem to be ignoring significant details. Just because you shrug those off, does not mean they do not exist.

  • Real Estate Broker · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 28 votes
    12y

    I Purchase real estate creatively because frankly I really don't want to pay for new loan fees, points commissions, higher property taxes and all the other traditional expenses involved in buying and selling real estate.

    I'm not a motivational speaker or writer. Hopefully we'll have some fun with these posts, but my bottom line is to really work with you and show you ways that will allow you to chose from and employ the best creative financing techniques for your transaction while minimizing the risks ..Covering your ***-ets and allow you to purchase real estate without formally assuming for or bank qualifying... All without credit and usually with little or no cash...

    Let's put it all together

    Seller signs a deed giving buyer ownership

    The seller would agree to execute a grant deed (warranty deed, whatever its called in your state) in favor of the buyer

    The deed is held unrecorded by the escrow management company until the loans in the seller's name have been paid or assumed.(If the seller doesn't like until paid try this. Buyer agrees to use best efforts to pay off existing loans that are in sellers name within five years of close of escrow.)

    Protection for the seller

    Buyer will execute a quitclaim deed back to the seller, which is held in escrow unrecorded

    How to protect the buyer in the chain of title and potential future creditors of the seller.

    For the buyers protection a lien of some percentage (I like to see at least 20%) of the purchase price in favor of the buyer executed by the seller will be recorded a "Sellers Performance Deed of Trust" The buyer will appear to be a juniors lender for public record purposes.

    The seller is protected

    For the sellers protection a reconveyance of said deed shall be executed by the buyer, which would be recorded in the event of a default upon request of the seller, which remains uncured for sixty (60) days upon written notice of default, has been mailed to the buyer

    This would allow the management company to unilaterally remove buyers cloud on the title by using the pre-signed reconveyance if the default was not cured as outlined.

  • Dion DePaoliPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Perhaps for the readers you can address the more important ideas that come with this plan of not recording things:

    1. Concealment = "...in any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States...knowingly conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact" - LINK
    2. Duty of California Licensed Broker to Disclose = Suggesting to not disclose for the purpose of concealment seems to go against California Broker Code of Conduct. The sole reason you are suggesting to not record said transfer seems to be for the purpose of concealing the sale from an interest party, the Mortgagee. Not to mention the county for re-assessment of property taxation.
    3. How about offsetting the other potential felonies that can arise such as mail fraud, racketeering, false statements (HUD & Conventional)

    To suggest a transaction that may come to head with a DOS clause is one thing, however to purposely create or direct actions to conceal such an event is entirely different.

    The common guru counter-argument is there is no Due on Sale jail. That is correct however, there is jail and punishments for these other actions which go hand in hand with these types of schemes. Any time something fails a Full Disclosure Test, it is not a good idea and can lead to harm. This is not prudent or sound advice.

    If a party wishes to knowingly enter into a Subject To transaction, they should not scheme to avoid the ramifications for entering into such a transaction especially for the sake of avoiding things like taxes or infringe upon the rights of other interested parties.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Bill, I have never written a book, I'm not an author.

    I see you are here trying to sell yourself as an expert, IMO, you're missing a lot. I suspect you have some product, program, book, system or other stuff, you can try, but you won't get far with it here I'm afraid, not the way you're going at it.

    Everything you have mentioned is decades old, out dated (CFDs) and your deed exchange for example, read a recent thread Deed in lieu of foreclosure and pre-arranged deed agreements" the link given is by an attorney and reputable source. BTW, I asked about your law degree and if you were an attorney, avoided that one, it's okay, we know you're not an attorney. In fact, someone PMed me saying where that degree was from and mentioned that it's from a mail in degree bogus school, but, whatever.

    I've had more installment contracts and CFDs cross my desk than you're likely to ever see in another 20 years, I had the largest private contract servicing company in the Midwest. I designed creative transactions, not only with residential but in commercial and business sale transactions. Painting me as a totally in the box, conventional deal type is painting by numbers, you have no idea.

    @Dion DePaoli

    yes, the train analogy was a good one for this, look at the amount of hype and misinformation posted to deal with to contradict his post. Overwhelm them with BS to the point they won't know where to begin and they will go away. That's taught in guru 101.

    Bill, we have thousands of posts here that already have pointed out issues with your suggestions, it's old stuff, I'm not reposting all that for you.

    I never said seller financing was dead, it's not, in commercial or in compliance with residential.

    Search "unrecorded contract for deed" it's already been addressed and a very bad idea, but it is how many were done 20 and more years ago.

    Figure this out Bill, a seller would sell his property on a CFD to a buyer, then I would purchase the property and the CFD, saying your seller or buyer is "protected", that's not true at all.

    This isn't Long Beach, you're on a national stage where we have several experts in their areas of RE and finance, this site isn't a captive audience of gullible newbies and we protect our new members.

    Now, if you had eased into the forums with contributions and established your ideas instead of blasting in here with nonsense about how creative you were......well, that's hind sight now. Your ideas, rather these old ideas will get people in trouble today. I'm done :)

  • Real Estate Broker · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 28 votes
    12y

    Perhaps for the readers you can address the more important ideas that come with this plan of not recording things:

    1. Concealment = "...in any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States...knowingly conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact" - LINK
    2. Again in California its not a crime or tort not to inform the lender
    3. Duty of California Licensed Broker to Disclose = Suggesting to not disclose for the purpose of concealment seems to go against California Broker Code of Conduct. The sole reason you are suggesting to not record said transfer seems to be for the purpose of concealing the sale from an interest party, the Mortgagee. Not to mention the county for re-assessment of property taxation.
    4. All disclosure are made in escrow as to the ramification of Sub2's
    5. How about offsetting the other potential felonies that can arise such as mail fraud, racketeering, false statements (HUD & Conventional)
    6. Your out of your mind
  • Real Estate Broker · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 28 votes
    12y

    I see you are here trying to sell yourself as an expert, IMO, you're missing a lot. I suspect you have some product, program, book, system or other stuff, you can try, but you won't get far with it here I'm afraid, not the way you're going at it.

    No, no books to sell, snake oil, or other stuff, Trying to share information

    Everything you have mentioned is decades old, out dated (CFDs) and your deed exchange for example, read a recent thread Deed in lieu of foreclosure and pre-arranged deed agreements" the link given is by an attorney and reputable source.

    Of course it's old but, not outdated I haven't even mentioned CFD that's my next subject...As far as attorneys being reputable sources there'er infamous for deal killers because of their ignorance.

    Again creative financing is financing that does not conform to the traditional approaches you seem to cherish. By its very nature is met with skepticism and criticism by folks like you who practice traditional methods...

    BTW, I asked about your law degree and if you were an attorney, avoided that one, it's okay, we know you're not an attorney. In fact, someone PMed me saying where that degree was from and mentioned that it's from a mail in degree bogus school, but, whatever

    No never said I was an attorney.. I have a traditional law degree from a reputable college. I decided not to become a lawyer because there's no money in it.

    I've had more installment contracts and CFDs cross my desk than you're likely to ever see in another 20 years, I had the largest private contract servicing company in the Midwest. I designed creative transactions, not only with residential but in commercial and business sale transactions. Painting me as a totally in the box, conventional deal type is painting by numbers, you have no idea.

    You should go back to shuffling papers

    @Dion DePaoli

    yes, the train analogy was a good one for this, look at the amount of hype and misinformation posted to deal with to contradict his post. Overwhelm them with BS to the point they won't know where to begin and they will go away. That's taught in guru 101.

    I learned this lesson early on When you come in contact with non-believes, skeptics, ignore them...

    People like you think creative financing is a bunch of nonsense..but when I can buy a house with 100% financing and resell within a few week for a profit of $60000 I never looked back it didn't mater what anyone said about creative financing "It's not legal, risky, not ethical whatever..I know without a doubt creative financing works

    Bill, we have thousands of posts here that already have pointed out issues with your suggestions, it's old stuff, I'm not reposting all that for you.

    I never said seller financing was dead, it's not, in commercial or in compliance with residential.

    Search "unrecorded contract for deed" it's already been addressed and a very bad idea, but it is how many were done 20 and more years ago.

    I'm still doing it, You can keep on screwing the seller

    Figure this out Bill, a seller would sell his property on a CFD to a buyer, then I would purchase the property and the CFD, saying your seller or buyer is "protected", that's not true at all.

    Your not reading what I said...go back and read

    This isn't Long Beach, you're on a national stage where we have several experts in their areas of RE and finance, this site isn't a captive audience of gullible newbies and we protect our new members.

    When I come in contact with oxymoron's like you two, I generally ignore them..But your ignorance is overwhelming...Keep on paying those taxes Obuma needs the money for his health plan ...You probably voted for him

    Now, if you had eased into the forums with contributions and established your ideas instead of blasting in here with nonsense about how creative you were......well, that's hind sight now. Your ideas, rather these old ideas will get people in trouble today. I'm done :)

    Thank God...You keep doing what your doing and I'll do the same...'ll write about contract for deed next...which, again I use all the time when necessary.

    Until the next time

    Bill

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.