Is inflating a payoff a CRIMINAL OFFENSE in GA?
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes
Is inflating a payoff a CRIMINAL OFFENSE in GA?
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
1yFrom what I garner here....to me it seems like the title company just took your money, and distributed funds to a party they should not have because the property did not close. When the transaction didnt close, you simply should have received your funds back.
So what Im seeing here is the guilty party is probably the title company. Potentially the lender if they conspired with the title company.
Also as a side note....Youve been pretty passive aggressive and attacking to people trying to help you out, and simply understand the situation better. Be kind. It will go a long way.
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- 1yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
The only thing I don’t understand is why the OP, with millions of dollars at stake, asks investors on a general real estate forum for answers to specific legal questions instead of asking an attorney specializing in mortgage law.
“They needed my funds to satisfy the hud, my money is escrow was NEVER to be wired anywhere but only remain in escrow to complete $ need for HUD along with buyers lender. My payoff was then added to the sellers side, I'd be paid back at the time of closing and seller and buyer then would take 2nd position from seller finance and my payoff on sellers side should have been wired back to me.”
IF, I understand the OP comment I quoted above, his money was needed to give the appearance that the transaction was DIFFERENT in some way (hiding seller financing ?, making it appear as if buyer was investing more?, etc.) then it really was, in order (I guess) to induce a loan or some other “benefit”. If so, then the OP, who’s claiming he was a “transactional lender”, was a part of said fraud. Maybe my understanding of the situation is incorrect, and if so I will gladly stand corrected.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
Quote from @Don Konipol:
The only thing I don’t understand is why the OP, with millions of dollars at stake, asks investors on a general real estate forum for answers to specific legal questions instead of asking an attorney specializing in mortgage law.
“They needed my funds to satisfy the hud, my money is escrow was NEVER to be wired anywhere but only remain in escrow to complete $ need for HUD along with buyers lender. My payoff was then added to the sellers side, I'd be paid back at the time of closing and seller and buyer then would take 2nd position from seller finance and my payoff on sellers side should have been wired back to me.”
IF, I understand the OP comment I quoted above, his money was needed to give the appearance that the transaction was DIFFERENT in some way (hiding seller financing ?, making it appear as if buyer was investing more?, etc.) then it really was, in order (I guess) to induce a loan or some other “benefit”. If so, then the OP, who’s claiming he was a “transactional lender”, was a part of said fraud. Maybe my understanding of the situation is incorrect, and if so I will gladly stand corrected.
This is why I only lend in first position. I think I finally understand what was happening here. Hypothetically a home is selling for $100k. The Buyer had no little to no money so they get a lender to give them $70k in first position. With closing costs the total amount is $110,000. The seller will act as lender 2 and give a loan for $40,000 to cover acquisition and closing costs. This transactional lender puts $40k in the pot (for some return which I am curious what they were promised) to get it back at closing as part of seller/lender#2 financing.
At closing the first lets say is owed $50,000 so the $70k covers the first balance and closing costs. But what appeared to happen is the payoff got increased to say $100k and now the transaction coordinators money is gone to cover the first and closing costs....
What I do not understand is why was this even needed? Why was a second just issued at closing as seller carryback and why was a transaction lender even needed?
BTW is this a pace morby strategy? seems like some crazy strategy that is taught by some creative finance guru.
7e investments53 Reviews - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1y
@Chris Seveney Imagine you are lending in first position. Great, docs are signed. You send your wire to escrow for title or closing attorney. Buyer then ghosts and didn't send in what they owed to satisfy the HUD. Attorney by then had already sent your 2.5M to a HIDDEN lender/lien that was never disclosed to you.
Regardless of what position you THOUGHT you were going to be in, your in ZERO position now with ZERO security in the property because the deed was never recorded, property never closed and your money is gone and the sellers then go AHA!!!! Free MONEY!!! My lender was paid off, not my problem anymore, I never signed anything with this other lender, it's the attorney's fault. Thank you for paying off my loan but now I DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Sue me if you want. CYA
That's what this is. But again, not trying to get into my case. What I found out later was that this seller and the prior lienholder is that there were private discussions and they did a "favor" and increased the payoff knowing they were about to "close" and likely thinking NO ONE would ever find out because IF it had closed, it wouldn't make much difference to the seller and the lender BUT since it didn't close (and might have been the whole fraudelent intention from the start) now the seller has a paid off property, and extra few hundred K in the sellers pocket, and when requested for the prior lender to return the wire, they REFUSE. Now I know why, because the extra few hundred K wasn't secure if the lender thought it was legit closing. But now if they sent the wire back, they'd be OUT that money because the borrower had already spent the extra $ on the side and the lender would be right back in the position they were in before but worse and out even more $ until the borrower finally sold their property again. - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1y
@Don Konipol The buyers lender was aware of the Seller Finance scenario and didn't care because this was a commercial loan and they were in for around 50% with the seller the other 50% so they had security. However, 100% of the $ must be sent to Escrow to satisfy the HUD.
Seller of course doesn't have the $ as it's in the property. Buyer doesn't have all of it and needed the small difference to bring to closing which would then be paid back at closing from the seller side for the $ I brought for the borrower. Then the $ I put in to satisfy the hud, which is ultimately the amount the seller would do a seller carry back for, would be paid back to me from the seller on their side of the HUD and then the seller has that amount less in the pocket and takes a 2nd lien with the borrower.
And 100% not some Pace Morby crap, i've been doing this longer before he was making up names for creative financing that's been around forever. :) - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney Imagine you are lending in first position. Great, docs are signed. You send your wire to escrow for title or closing attorney. Buyer then ghosts and didn't send in what they owed to satisfy the HUD. Attorney by then had already sent your 2.5M to a HIDDEN lender/lien that was never disclosed to you.
Regardless of what position you THOUGHT you were going to be in, your in ZERO position now with ZERO security in the property because the deed was never recorded, property never closed and your money is gone and the sellers then go AHA!!!! Free MONEY!!! My lender was paid off, not my problem anymore, I never signed anything with this other lender, it's the attorney's fault. Thank you for paying off my loan but now I DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Sue me if you want. CYA
That's what this is. But again, not trying to get into my case. What I found out later was that this seller and the prior lienholder is that there were private discussions and they did a "favor" and increased the payoff knowing they were about to "close" and likely thinking NO ONE would ever find out because IF it had closed, it wouldn't make much difference to the seller and the lender BUT since it didn't close (and might have been the whole fraudelent intention from the start) now the seller has a paid off property, and extra few hundred K in the sellers pocket, and when requested for the prior lender to return the wire, they REFUSE. Now I know why, because the extra few hundred K wasn't secure if the lender thought it was legit closing. But now if they sent the wire back, they'd be OUT that money because the borrower had already spent the extra $ on the side and the lender would be right back in the position they were in before but worse and out even more $ until the borrower finally sold their property again.This is why I get title insurance.
7e investments53 Reviews - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1y
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
- 1yJoe S.Pro MemberInvestor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
I didn’t even know that a title company was allowed to pay off a lien without an actual closing/getting the signature of all parties. You might have a case against the title company if I read it correctly.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1y
Quote from @Joe S.:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
I didn’t even know that a title company was allowed to pay off a lien without an actual closing/getting the signature of all parties. You might have a case against the title company if I read it correctly.
EXACTLY MY FRIEND!!! They are NOT supposed to and have systems and SOP not to, but it can be pushed through manually. Clearly…
we do have all of that under litigation and “under control” already. I’m just focused on discovering FOR LATER if it’s a criminal offense for the lender (and borrower) to inflate the payoff for the sole purpose of collecting more $ especially now that it never closed and the prior lender refused to even assign me their lien and the borrower had already used some of the money so OFCOURSE the lender wouldn’t send the money back or they’d be out the extra $ they sent to the borrower that was already used. - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
Quote from @Don Konipol:
The only thing I don’t understand is why the OP, with millions of dollars at stake, asks investors on a general real estate forum for answers to specific legal questions instead of asking an attorney specializing in mortgage law.
“They needed my funds to satisfy the hud, my money is escrow was NEVER to be wired anywhere but only remain in escrow to complete $ need for HUD along with buyers lender. My payoff was then added to the sellers side, I'd be paid back at the time of closing and seller and buyer then would take 2nd position from seller finance and my payoff on sellers side should have been wired back to me.”
IF, I understand the OP comment I quoted above, his money was needed to give the appearance that the transaction was DIFFERENT in some way (hiding seller financing ?, making it appear as if buyer was investing more?, etc.) then it really was, in order (I guess) to induce a loan or some other “benefit”. If so, then the OP, who’s claiming he was a “transactional lender”, was a part of said fraud. Maybe my understanding of the situation is incorrect, and if so I will gladly stand corrected.
What county is the lawsuit filed in?
7e investments53 Reviews - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
The only thing I don’t understand is why the OP, with millions of dollars at stake, asks investors on a general real estate forum for answers to specific legal questions instead of asking an attorney specializing in mortgage law.
“They needed my funds to satisfy the hud, my money is escrow was NEVER to be wired anywhere but only remain in escrow to complete $ need for HUD along with buyers lender. My payoff was then added to the sellers side, I'd be paid back at the time of closing and seller and buyer then would take 2nd position from seller finance and my payoff on sellers side should have been wired back to me.”
IF, I understand the OP comment I quoted above, his money was needed to give the appearance that the transaction was DIFFERENT in some way (hiding seller financing ?, making it appear as if buyer was investing more?, etc.) then it really was, in order (I guess) to induce a loan or some other “benefit”. If so, then the OP, who’s claiming he was a “transactional lender”, was a part of said fraud. Maybe my understanding of the situation is incorrect, and if so I will gladly stand corrected.
What county is the lawsuit filed in?
DeKalb, GA
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney Imagine you are lending in first position. Great, docs are signed. You send your wire to escrow for title or closing attorney. Buyer then ghosts and didn't send in what they owed to satisfy the HUD. Attorney by then had already sent your 2.5M to a HIDDEN lender/lien that was never disclosed to you.
Regardless of what position you THOUGHT you were going to be in, your in ZERO position now with ZERO security in the property because the deed was never recorded, property never closed and your money is gone and the sellers then go AHA!!!! Free MONEY!!! My lender was paid off, not my problem anymore, I never signed anything with this other lender, it's the attorney's fault. Thank you for paying off my loan but now I DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Sue me if you want. CYA
That's what this is. But again, not trying to get into my case. What I found out later was that this seller and the prior lienholder is that there were private discussions and they did a "favor" and increased the payoff knowing they were about to "close" and likely thinking NO ONE would ever find out because IF it had closed, it wouldn't make much difference to the seller and the lender BUT since it didn't close (and might have been the whole fraudelent intention from the start) now the seller has a paid off property, and extra few hundred K in the sellers pocket, and when requested for the prior lender to return the wire, they REFUSE. Now I know why, because the extra few hundred K wasn't secure if the lender thought it was legit closing. But now if they sent the wire back, they'd be OUT that money because the borrower had already spent the extra $ on the side and the lender would be right back in the position they were in before but worse and out even more $ until the borrower finally sold their property again.Jesse , I assume you had escrow instructions to the attorney .. IE, you can do this, when you hold this for me etc etc.. It really sounds like the attorney messed up and exactly like your pointing out you have the other parties that are just saying too bad.. @Tom Gimer I bet Tom being an owner of a title company and an attorney might be able to assist or comment on this scenario.. I understand TF is a bizz unto itself and with states like SC coming down on assignments etc its only going to be more in demand from the wholesaler community trying to do their deals.. I personally dont know where title insurance comes into play with these either if your not recording a debt instrument and then getting a lenders Alta
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney Imagine you are lending in first position. Great, docs are signed. You send your wire to escrow for title or closing attorney. Buyer then ghosts and didn't send in what they owed to satisfy the HUD. Attorney by then had already sent your 2.5M to a HIDDEN lender/lien that was never disclosed to you.
Regardless of what position you THOUGHT you were going to be in, your in ZERO position now with ZERO security in the property because the deed was never recorded, property never closed and your money is gone and the sellers then go AHA!!!! Free MONEY!!! My lender was paid off, not my problem anymore, I never signed anything with this other lender, it's the attorney's fault. Thank you for paying off my loan but now I DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Sue me if you want. CYA
That's what this is. But again, not trying to get into my case. What I found out later was that this seller and the prior lienholder is that there were private discussions and they did a "favor" and increased the payoff knowing they were about to "close" and likely thinking NO ONE would ever find out because IF it had closed, it wouldn't make much difference to the seller and the lender BUT since it didn't close (and might have been the whole fraudelent intention from the start) now the seller has a paid off property, and extra few hundred K in the sellers pocket, and when requested for the prior lender to return the wire, they REFUSE. Now I know why, because the extra few hundred K wasn't secure if the lender thought it was legit closing. But now if they sent the wire back, they'd be OUT that money because the borrower had already spent the extra $ on the side and the lender would be right back in the position they were in before but worse and out even more $ until the borrower finally sold their property again.Jesse , I assume you had escrow instructions to the attorney .. IE, you can do this, when you hold this for me etc etc.. It really sounds like the attorney messed up and exactly like your pointing out you have the other parties that are just saying too bad.. @Tom Gimer I bet Tom being an owner of a title company and an attorney might be able to assist or comment on this scenario.. I understand TF is a bizz unto itself and with states like SC coming down on assignments etc its only going to be more in demand from the wholesaler community trying to do their deals.. I personally dont know where title insurance comes into play with these either if your not recording a debt instrument and then getting a lenders Alta
This is certainly an unheard scenario that not one closing attorney or title company I've ever talked with has ever seen! Yes, clear instructions. Attorney even admitted what she did long ago and offered up her E&O right away. So I have all the evidence we need for a slam dunk case, but since March, you can see it's not an overnight thing.
Once I get the lien, then I’ll work on all the next steps. Just getting a head start on if it comes down to a future trial and then bringing in the lender as well and just interested in what other possible charges the lender or borrower could face that I want to begin researching but also to bring that up now to put more pressure on the parties. I’ll PM you something that will blow you away…
- 1yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1yProperty never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.
Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall. - Member since 2024 · 9 posts · 5 votes1y
Hi @JesseLeBlanc,
Inflating a payoff in the context you described can indeed constitute mortgage fraud under Georgia law. Both have potential of being charged no differently than the other.Georgia Code - Title 16, Chapter 8 - Theft
O.C.G.A 16-9-93
Georgia Mortgage Fraud Task Force
Above are a few resources I looked up to help define the scenario. Defined under the O.C.G.A 16-8-102, Mortgage Fraud is defined as knowingly makes any deliberate misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission during the mortgage lending process with the intention that it be relied on by a mortgage lending process. More details can be found on Justia US LAW.com
Consider reaching out to someone who specializes in real estate or fraud cases.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes1y
From what I garner here....to me it seems like the title company just took your money, and distributed funds to a party they should not have because the property did not close. When the transaction didnt close, you simply should have received your funds back.
So what Im seeing here is the guilty party is probably the title company. Potentially the lender if they conspired with the title company.
Also as a side note....Youve been pretty passive aggressive and attacking to people trying to help you out, and simply understand the situation better. Be kind. It will go a long way.
District Invest Group546 Reviews - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1yYou’re probably referring to 1 post, Joe modified his response so you’re not seeing what he said prior. He already apologized, I couldn’t amend mine by the time I saw it. I’m far from being rude, but thank you.
Quote from @Russell Brazil:
From what I garner here....to me it seems like the title company just took your money, and distributed funds to a party they should not have because the property did not close. When the transaction didnt close, you simply should have received your funds back.
So what Im seeing here is the guilty party is probably the title company. Potentially the lender if they conspired with the title company.
Also as a side note....Youve been pretty passive aggressive and attacking to people trying to help you out, and simply understand the situation better. Be kind. It will go a long way.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.
to me its almost like a scenario when you check your bank account and there is 1 mil in there that should not be there.. you hurry and make a withdrawl the bank says hey you got to send it back and you say sorry.. something like that. - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.
to me its almost like a scenario when you check your bank account and there is 1 mil in there that should not be there.. you hurry and make a withdrawl the bank says hey you got to send it back and you say sorry.. something like that.100%%%% exactly what my attorney said too ROFL
Yet this guy still thinks God gave him a miracle and not his problem or debt anymore. Legit said that, not my words. ROFL. Doesn’t work that way pal. unfortunately the old saying “finders keepers, looser weepers” is the complete opposite of the actual law! 🤘🏼🤘🏼🦾👍
- 1yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.The purpose of the CPL is to expand coverage beyond the commitment/policy and beyond the title insurer itself to others involved in the process (title agents)... your scenario.
Quick search -- https://houston.fntic.com/getattachment/6efdc91c-3146-46bc-a...
I was saying start the analysis there as that would seem be the simplest route to recovery.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - 1yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.
to me its almost like a scenario when you check your bank account and there is 1 mil in there that should not be there.. you hurry and make a withdrawl the bank says hey you got to send it back and you say sorry.. something like that.Got a good one for you, Jay... bank error resulted in two duplicate wires being sent to the same seller. Demand was made... promises, stalling and excuses ensued. A fool would see exactly where that was heading.
They managed to spend some of the "free money" but the account was quickly frozen and judgment entered for constructive trust in the full amount plus the cost of the bond, interest and attorneys fees. Bank released the entire amount upon presentation of the Order.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 627 posts · 374 votes1yDaaaaang!! How long did that take? I’m guessing due to the bank having the ability to freeze and see the facts, it wasn’t long.
Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.
to me its almost like a scenario when you check your bank account and there is 1 mil in there that should not be there.. you hurry and make a withdrawl the bank says hey you got to send it back and you say sorry.. something like that.Got a good one for you, Jay... bank error resulted in two duplicate wires being sent to the same seller. Demand was made... promises, stalling and excuses ensued. A fool would see exactly where that was heading.
They managed to spend some of the "free money" but the account was quickly frozen and judgment entered for constructive trust in the full amount plus the cost of the bond, interest and attorneys fees. Bank released the entire amount upon presentation of the Order.
that certainly could have been a lot uglier without swift action! - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.
to me its almost like a scenario when you check your bank account and there is 1 mil in there that should not be there.. you hurry and make a withdrawl the bank says hey you got to send it back and you say sorry.. something like that.Was just gonna say the Chase bank glitch where people thought they were getting free money by cashign fake checks...
7e investments53 Reviews - 1yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votesYes, the key is being able to get before a judge quickly. The bank won’t do squat without a court order. To get that you need to be preparing the suit, getting the bond and filing the necessary pleadings for an emergency hearing during the same window of time that the recipient is thinking about how to hide or spend the money.
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Daaaaang!! How long did that take? I’m guessing due to the bank having the ability to freeze and see the facts, it wasn’t long.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window.Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:
@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal. FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.
First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?
but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.
to me its almost like a scenario when you check your bank account and there is 1 mil in there that should not be there.. you hurry and make a withdrawl the bank says hey you got to send it back and you say sorry.. something like that.Got a good one for you, Jay... bank error resulted in two duplicate wires being sent to the same seller. Demand was made... promises, stalling and excuses ensued. A fool would see exactly where that was heading.
They managed to spend some of the "free money" but the account was quickly frozen and judgment entered for constructive trust in the full amount plus the cost of the bond, interest and attorneys fees. Bank released the entire amount upon presentation of the Order.
that certainly could have been a lot uglier without swift action!Gimer Law516 Reviews - Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes1y
You might look at Georgia Code § 16-5-40.
I worked on more than one title insurance claim where an escrow agent disbursed funds before closing so while it's unusual, it's not unique. Sometimes by mistake, sometimes by direction of the parties, sometimes in an attempt to steal money.
I believe you and your attorney are already pursuing a lien based on equitable subrogation. While that might succeed, I hope you're also seeking a lien based on unjust enrichment in case it doesn't.
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