Has anyone had success purchasing directly through the listing agent? [story inside]

Has anyone had success purchasing directly through the listing agent? [story inside]

Member since 2022 · 53 posts · 27 votes

So quick story.. I recently found a duplex in my area (Long Island, NY) that was exactly what I was looking for for an investment property. It was in exceptional condition and needed very little upgrading, except for just some minor cosmetic stuff.

Price = $749k

The property had only been listed for a day and I was the 2nd person in there to view the property. I went with my agent and we were able to view the property as he had the keys.

As soon as we finished the viewing, I had my agent call the listing agent to find out what we can do to get this house sold and off the market immediately, without any further showings. To my surprise, the listing agent told my agent that the homeowner was just trying to get asking price, so I quickly told him let's do it and we offered him an even $750k CASH (I have this liquid and was not doing any type of financing whatsoever).

About 10 minutes later, the listing agent called my agent back, and said they accepted the offer and gave my agent "his word" that there would be no further showings on the property. I had to rush to get an inspection lined up for the following day, but we were being held up waiting to hear if the current tenants that were occupying 1 of the 2 units would allow us to get in there to get an inspection done on short notice the following day on the Sunday before MLK Day.

At this point, everyone goes dark. Sunday rolls around and still nothing about getting us in for the inspection. At this point, I knew we were going to be screwed as the listing agent was for sure going to be showing his other scheduled showings the following day on MLK Day (even though he said he wasn't going to and gave us his word).

Monday comes around, and of course, the listing agent says they jumped the gun on accepting the offer, and wanted to see what else they could get as an offer. My agent told the listing agent they dropped the ball and at least owed us the opportunity to compete and be transparent with any new offers, as we originally had our offer accepted, and they owed us at least that. He agreed.

2 days later, we were told the house was "hot" and that they had offers coming in. The listing agent said that if we wanted to improve our offer, that now was the time.

I increased my offer to $786k CASH, given the excellent condition of the house. No duplex in this neighborhood has ever sold for over $800k, and that was a few years ago and was in an even better area of the neighborhood (off the main road, and surrounded by much nicer houses).

The next day, we are alerted by the listing agent that they went forward with another offer without even giving us a call or a chance to compete. My agent and I were floored given how aggressive our offer was and that we were really owed the opportunity to compete and beat whatever the best offer was, but we weren't. We both told the listing agent this behavior was extremely unprofessional.

I told this to my father, and he asked why I was using an agent at all. He's bought over a dozen single family properties over the years (for vacation homes mostly) and he said every single time he just called the listing agent directly and got it done.

I know most people generally frown upon this because the buyer agent is supposed to help get a better price, negotiate based on issues w/the house, etc. However, I'm skeptical how much the buyer agent really tries to get you a lower price, since their commission is also based on a higher sale price. Also, any issues will come out during a thorough inspection anyway.

I figure if I work with the listing agent directly, they're more likely to disclose the price I need to hit to win, and even if I come in slightly lower, they can still get a much higher commission by dual agency, as opposed to having to split the commission with the buyer agent.

What are your guys thoughts on this? Has anyone had success purchasing directly through the listing agent?

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Sean HudginsPro Member
Real Estate Agent · Chesapeake Va · Member since 2019 · 150 posts · 100 votes
2y

Interesting story. I want to touch on something that stood out to me in the story first, and then I will give my opinion on the dual agency approach. 

When you got the "Offer accepted," what should have happened was that the offer should have been signed by both parties and ratified. Now, I am in Virginia, and I will not pretend I know exactly how RE transactions are done in NY. But here in VA, an offer is only accepted once it is ratified, i.e. signed by both parties, holding both parties to the terms of the deal. It sounds like you got a word-of-mouth acceptance, and your agent should have pushed hard to get the signed contract completed so that the sellers would be in breach of contract by accepting another offer, and you would have grounds for a lawsuit if they did. To me, this was a big blunder on your agent's part.

Now, Dual Agency is a tricky business. My perspective on this as a buyer and investor is that if you are savvy enough to look out for yourself, then it can be a good way to get on the inside of the deal. Technically (once again in VA), if I represent both parties to a transaction with dual agency, I really no longer represent either party. The agent is only an intermediary between the buyer and seller at that point. Now, plenty of agents out there will see this as a way to double their commission, and they will push to make the deal happen, which is not ethical or legal.

As an agent, I don't like dual agency, and I would rather get a referral fee by sending the buyer to another agent so that I can do my job of representing the seller, which is what they are paying for. I have seen that usually, in a dual agency situation, one party feels like they lost out somehow and it opens up the way too many opportunities for me as the agent to get sued.

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  • Sean HudginsPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Chesapeake Va · Member since 2019 · 150 posts · 100 votes
    2y

    Interesting story. I want to touch on something that stood out to me in the story first, and then I will give my opinion on the dual agency approach. 

    When you got the "Offer accepted," what should have happened was that the offer should have been signed by both parties and ratified. Now, I am in Virginia, and I will not pretend I know exactly how RE transactions are done in NY. But here in VA, an offer is only accepted once it is ratified, i.e. signed by both parties, holding both parties to the terms of the deal. It sounds like you got a word-of-mouth acceptance, and your agent should have pushed hard to get the signed contract completed so that the sellers would be in breach of contract by accepting another offer, and you would have grounds for a lawsuit if they did. To me, this was a big blunder on your agent's part.

    Now, Dual Agency is a tricky business. My perspective on this as a buyer and investor is that if you are savvy enough to look out for yourself, then it can be a good way to get on the inside of the deal. Technically (once again in VA), if I represent both parties to a transaction with dual agency, I really no longer represent either party. The agent is only an intermediary between the buyer and seller at that point. Now, plenty of agents out there will see this as a way to double their commission, and they will push to make the deal happen, which is not ethical or legal.

    As an agent, I don't like dual agency, and I would rather get a referral fee by sending the buyer to another agent so that I can do my job of representing the seller, which is what they are paying for. I have seen that usually, in a dual agency situation, one party feels like they lost out somehow and it opens up the way too many opportunities for me as the agent to get sued.

  • Member since 2022 · 53 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sean Hudgins:

    Interesting story. I want to touch on something that stood out to me in the story first, and then I will give my opinion on the dual agency approach. 

    When you got the "Offer accepted," what should have happened was that the offer should have been signed by both parties and ratified. Now, I am in Virginia, and I will not pretend I know exactly how RE transactions are done in NY. But here in VA, an offer is only accepted once it is ratified, i.e. signed by both parties, holding both parties to the terms of the deal. It sounds like you got a word-of-mouth acceptance, and your agent should have pushed hard to get the signed contract completed so that the sellers would be in breach of contract by accepting another offer, and you would have grounds for a lawsuit if they did. To me, this was a big blunder on your agent's part.

    Now, Dual Agency is a tricky business. My perspective on this as a buyer and investor is that if you are savvy enough to look out for yourself, then it can be a good way to get on the inside of the deal. Technically (once again in VA), if I represent both parties to a transaction with dual agency, I really no longer represent either party. The agent is only an intermediary between the buyer and seller at that point. Now, plenty of agents out there will see this as a way to double their commission, and they will push to make the deal happen, which is not ethical or legal.

    As an agent, I don't like dual agency, and I would rather get a referral fee by sending the buyer to another agent so that I can do my job of representing the seller, which is what they are paying for. I have seen that usually, in a dual agency situation, one party feels like they lost out somehow and it opens up the way too many opportunities for me as the agent to get sued.


     Thank you for your response. I found on Google:  "Dual agency in New York is completely legal, however a real estate salesperson or broker is required to fulfill several disclosure requirements before being permitted to transact as a dual agent."

    So in NY, it looks like it wouldn't be illegal. I figure, even if the agent feels like their seller may not like it, there's no reason why someone else at their agency can't be my "agent", and then work out a further commission split with the other agent. 

    Thoughts?

  • Sean HudginsPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Chesapeake Va · Member since 2019 · 150 posts · 100 votes
    2y
    Quote from @John S.:
    Quote from @Sean Hudgins:

    Interesting story. I want to touch on something that stood out to me in the story first, and then I will give my opinion on the dual agency approach. 

    When you got the "Offer accepted," what should have happened was that the offer should have been signed by both parties and ratified. Now, I am in Virginia, and I will not pretend I know exactly how RE transactions are done in NY. But here in VA, an offer is only accepted once it is ratified, i.e. signed by both parties, holding both parties to the terms of the deal. It sounds like you got a word-of-mouth acceptance, and your agent should have pushed hard to get the signed contract completed so that the sellers would be in breach of contract by accepting another offer, and you would have grounds for a lawsuit if they did. To me, this was a big blunder on your agent's part.

    Now, Dual Agency is a tricky business. My perspective on this as a buyer and investor is that if you are savvy enough to look out for yourself, then it can be a good way to get on the inside of the deal. Technically (once again in VA), if I represent both parties to a transaction with dual agency, I really no longer represent either party. The agent is only an intermediary between the buyer and seller at that point. Now, plenty of agents out there will see this as a way to double their commission, and they will push to make the deal happen, which is not ethical or legal.

    As an agent, I don't like dual agency, and I would rather get a referral fee by sending the buyer to another agent so that I can do my job of representing the seller, which is what they are paying for. I have seen that usually, in a dual agency situation, one party feels like they lost out somehow and it opens up the way too many opportunities for me as the agent to get sued.


     Thank you for your response. I found on Google:  "Dual agency in New York is completely legal, however a real estate salesperson or broker is required to fulfill several disclosure requirements before being permitted to transact as a dual agent."

    So in NY, it looks like it wouldn't be illegal. I figure, even if the agent feels like their seller may not like it, there's no reason why someone else at their agency can't be my "agent", and then work out a further commission split with the other agent. 

    Thoughts?


    Definitely, in VA, it is also legal, and we require similar disclosures. The part I mentioned was illegal would be if the agent was misrepresenting one side in order to get the deal done (somewhat speculative unless they do something obvious).

    Your thought to have another agent in their brokerage represent you is spot on. That is something called a designated agency where the broker "assigns" another agent to represent the buyer. This is a great method as an individual agent is representing each party, so there is less conflict of interest, but because they are in the same brokerage, there is a perceived desire to work together more openly to get the deal to close. One downside is that you may get paired up with a random agent or an inexperienced agent who doesn't have the knowledge to look out for your best interest.

    Also, my perspective on this as an agent is a little more by the books, where if I was purchasing out of a state that I was licensed in, then I may use the strategy of Dual Agency and have the possibility of the agent's greed help to secure the deal. As the buyer, I would not have the legal risk; the agent who was taking part in the transaction as the dual agent would have that legal risk.

    Most importantly, though, if I felt that I needed the representation at all, I would find my own agent that I could trust. When you spend that kind of cash on anything, I would say it's smart to have a trusted advisor alongside you and not leave that role up to chance.

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    Im a little unclear here. Did you not actually have a contract to buy the property?

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    "I figure if I work with the listing agent directly, they're more likely to disclose the price I need to hit to win, and even if I come in slightly lower, they can still get a much higher commission by dual agency, as opposed to having to split the commission with the buyer agent."

    I think it's interesting that you assume that the listing agent will very openly break the law and not do what is in the sellers best interest. And if you believe that they will break he law the benefit themselves.....why do you think they wont screw you over when they are willing to screw their own client over?

  • Member since 2022 · 53 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Im a little unclear here. Did you not actually have a contract to buy the property?


     No, we were waiting to do inspection.

  • Basit SiddiqiBusiness Member
    Accountant · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 8k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @John S.:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Im a little unclear here. Did you not actually have a contract to buy the property?


     No, we were waiting to do inspection.

    That is strange, you normally get an inspection after getting under contract.
    I would never get an inspection if not under contract.
  • Basit SiddiqiBusiness Member
    Accountant · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 8k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    I buy properties all the time directly through the listing agent. I likely did it 20+ times

    I only recommend it if you already did a couple of deals and know the steps to buying a house within a market.

  • Member since 2022 · 53 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Basit Siddiqi:
    Quote from @John S.:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Im a little unclear here. Did you not actually have a contract to buy the property?


     No, we were waiting to do inspection.

    That is strange, you normally get an inspection after getting under contract.
    I would never get an inspection if not under contract.

     Hmm, I didn't know that. I'm still new and haven't closed on my 1st deal yet.

  • Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 899 votes
    2y

    @John S.- working thru listing agent is OK  but ...... 1) ask for a 2-3% discount if you do this as the seller shouldnt need to pay two full comm  2) agents can  be  challenged at times to represent both parties ( eg.  Inspection calls out repairs that should be done .. whats  asked for ?) 

  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @John S.:

    So quick story.. I recently found a duplex in my area (Long Island, NY) that was exactly what I was looking for for an investment property. It was in exceptional condition and needed very little upgrading, except for just some minor cosmetic stuff.

    Price = $749k

    The property had only been listed for a day and I was the 2nd person in there to view the property. I went with my agent and we were able to view the property as he had the keys.

    As soon as we finished the viewing, I had my agent call the listing agent to find out what we can do to get this house sold and off the market immediately, without any further showings. To my surprise, the listing agent told my agent that the homeowner was just trying to get asking price, so I quickly told him let's do it and we offered him an even $750k CASH (I have this liquid and was not doing any type of financing whatsoever).

    About 10 minutes later, the listing agent called my agent back, and said they accepted the offer and gave my agent "his word" that there would be no further showings on the property. I had to rush to get an inspection lined up for the following day, but we were being held up waiting to hear if the current tenants that were occupying 1 of the 2 units would allow us to get in there to get an inspection done on short notice the following day on the Sunday before MLK Day.

    At this point, everyone goes dark. Sunday rolls around and still nothing about getting us in for the inspection. At this point, I knew we were going to be screwed as the listing agent was for sure going to be showing his other scheduled showings the following day on MLK Day (even though he said he wasn't going to and gave us his word).

    Monday comes around, and of course, the listing agent says they jumped the gun on accepting the offer, and wanted to see what else they could get as an offer. My agent told the listing agent they dropped the ball and at least owed us the opportunity to compete and be transparent with any new offers, as we originally had our offer accepted, and they owed us at least that. He agreed.

    2 days later, we were told the house was "hot" and that they had offers coming in. The listing agent said that if we wanted to improve our offer, that now was the time.

    I increased my offer to $786k CASH, given the excellent condition of the house. No duplex in this neighborhood has ever sold for over $800k, and that was a few years ago and was in an even better area of the neighborhood (off the main road, and surrounded by much nicer houses).

    The next day, we are alerted by the listing agent that they went forward with another offer without even giving us a call or a chance to compete. My agent and I were floored given how aggressive our offer was and that we were really owed the opportunity to compete and beat whatever the best offer was, but we weren't. We both told the listing agent this behavior was extremely unprofessional.

    I told this to my father, and he asked why I was using an agent at all. He's bought over a dozen single family properties over the years (for vacation homes mostly) and he said every single time he just called the listing agent directly and got it done.

    I know most people generally frown upon this because the buyer agent is supposed to help get a better price, negotiate based on issues w/the house, etc. However, I'm skeptical how much the buyer agent really tries to get you a lower price, since their commission is also based on a higher sale price. Also, any issues will come out during a thorough inspection anyway.

    I figure if I work with the listing agent directly, they're more likely to disclose the price I need to hit to win, and even if I come in slightly lower, they can still get a much higher commission by dual agency, as opposed to having to split the commission with the buyer agent.

    What are your guys thoughts on this? Has anyone had success purchasing directly through the listing agent?


     This post triggered me. To be fair, there are some excellent agents-- genuinely. I'd say it's less than 5% though.

    First, I now only go through listing agents if I can't go to the owner directly. My deal closure & acceptance rate is super high when going through the listing agent. But the flaw in your story is you need that contract signed, without that, it's all meaningless. The fact they gave you their word was just a horrible thing to do, and something I'd definitely press them on. It'll get you nowhere, but it'll make others view that agent differently. So do it for the next person. 

    If you are novice, bring in an experienced real estate lawyer and have them CCd on your emails/communications with the listing agent directly. I made the rookie mistake of not doing that my first go around and the agent told me commissions were not negotiable. I knew that was fishy so I CCd my lawyer when I repled, she quickly changed her tune that "her" commissions weren't.

    You'll notice agents are very quick to make the deal work when it benefits them. And anytime you can close a fast as possible, and they are on both sides, that's that quick and perfect. I don't care what any agent tells me, all they care about is closing the deal & getting their cut.

    Literally had a thread about this in Raleigh with their suspect ways of handling it. Listing agent directly(with lawyer CCd) is the way to go.

  • Real Estate Broker · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2015 · 221 posts · 125 votes
    2y

    The listing agent has a contract with the seller to represent the seller. The sellers best interest is an agents 1st priority. It is not in the sellers best interest for the agent to represent the buyer as well. Yes in many states it is legal and I have also done it many time with the approval of both parties. However, if you have a GOOD buyers agent, one that is a specialist in investment real estate their 1st priority is YOUR best interest and to get you the best deal. It does not sound like your agent was doing this. Nothing is done verbally. Your agent should have gotten a signature on the contract. No inspections are done or even scheduled before you have a signed contract. Your agents responsibility is to work for you and to guide you through the process. This is something they should have told you. I do not agree with @Dave Skow if you do in fact work directly with a listing agent they should not give a discounted commission. It is not less work. If they are doing their job and representing them both then it is the same amount of time on paperwork, guidance, etc... Now the agent has to also be involved in inspections, appraisals, lenders, tenants and what ever else that they would not have to had done had they only been the listing agent. Also, the listing agents job is to GET IT SOLD. That means it is not in their best interest to do through inspections or dig deep into P&L to make sure the numbers work for the buyer. They don't care they just want it sold. That is the buyers agent responsibility to protect the buyer, to make sure they are making a solid investment, to go through an inspection report and explain it to the buyer, to schedule subsequent inspections if needed, to help the buyer to identify any red flags. A good buyers agent isn't just trying to sell a property, they are building a relationship with an investor to help them build a portfolio and have a life long client. Listing agents are one and done for a buyer. The right buyers agent is an invaluable part of an investors team. 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @John S.:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Im a little unclear here. Did you not actually have a contract to buy the property?


     No, we were waiting to do inspection.


     Well let that be a lesson learned. Conversations mean nothing. Contracts are all that matter. Next time, get the property under contract ASAP, because there is always 10 other people that want to buy the property. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    Most of my deals consist of the listing agent being the dual agent or buying a property with no agents involved. 

    Now that I think of it, only the properties I've lived in (one is a duplex I still have and is fully-occupied) have had a buyer and seller agent involved. 

    Anything I've bought strictly as a rental was either a dual agent scenario or I worked directly with the seller to buy the property with no agents involved (I literally did this for my first multi-family deal back in 2016).

    And don't feel too bad about the shady selling agent and seller as it happens. I had this happen as well (they accepted my offer and my selling agent claimed as he was filling out the sales contract the selling agent contacted him and asked for me to give my best and final offer. My agent told the other agent he had no idea they were running an auction. 

    The seller then accepted another offer - when the offer they accepted fell through and they came back to me I gave them a lower offer because at that point I didn't want the place. Had the selling agent and seller been decent they would have sold the property for a few thousand more than they ended up getting). 

  • Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes
    2y
    Quote from @John S.:

    So quick story.. I recently found a duplex in my area (Long Island, NY) that was exactly what I was looking for for an investment property. It was in exceptional condition and needed very little upgrading, except for just some minor cosmetic stuff.

    Price = $749k

    The property had only been listed for a day and I was the 2nd person in there to view the property. I went with my agent and we were able to view the property as he had the keys.

    As soon as we finished the viewing, I had my agent call the listing agent to find out what we can do to get this house sold and off the market immediately, without any further showings. To my surprise, the listing agent told my agent that the homeowner was just trying to get asking price, so I quickly told him let's do it and we offered him an even $750k CASH (I have this liquid and was not doing any type of financing whatsoever).

    About 10 minutes later, the listing agent called my agent back, and said they accepted the offer and gave my agent "his word" that there would be no further showings on the property. I had to rush to get an inspection lined up for the following day, but we were being held up waiting to hear if the current tenants that were occupying 1 of the 2 units would allow us to get in there to get an inspection done on short notice the following day on the Sunday before MLK Day.

    At this point, everyone goes dark. Sunday rolls around and still nothing about getting us in for the inspection. At this point, I knew we were going to be screwed as the listing agent was for sure going to be showing his other scheduled showings the following day on MLK Day (even though he said he wasn't going to and gave us his word).

    Monday comes around, and of course, the listing agent says they jumped the gun on accepting the offer, and wanted to see what else they could get as an offer. My agent told the listing agent they dropped the ball and at least owed us the opportunity to compete and be transparent with any new offers, as we originally had our offer accepted, and they owed us at least that. He agreed.

    2 days later, we were told the house was "hot" and that they had offers coming in. The listing agent said that if we wanted to improve our offer, that now was the time.

    I increased my offer to $786k CASH, given the excellent condition of the house. No duplex in this neighborhood has ever sold for over $800k, and that was a few years ago and was in an even better area of the neighborhood (off the main road, and surrounded by much nicer houses).

    The next day, we are alerted by the listing agent that they went forward with another offer without even giving us a call or a chance to compete. My agent and I were floored given how aggressive our offer was and that we were really owed the opportunity to compete and beat whatever the best offer was, but we weren't. We both told the listing agent this behavior was extremely unprofessional.

    I told this to my father, and he asked why I was using an agent at all. He's bought over a dozen single family properties over the years (for vacation homes mostly) and he said every single time he just called the listing agent directly and got it done.

    I know most people generally frown upon this because the buyer agent is supposed to help get a better price, negotiate based on issues w/the house, etc. However, I'm skeptical how much the buyer agent really tries to get you a lower price, since their commission is also based on a higher sale price. Also, any issues will come out during a thorough inspection anyway.

    I figure if I work with the listing agent directly, they're more likely to disclose the price I need to hit to win, and even if I come in slightly lower, they can still get a much higher commission by dual agency, as opposed to having to split the commission with the buyer agent.

    What are your guys thoughts on this? Has anyone had success purchasing directly through the listing agent?

    1st of all from your post it’s unclear to me if the agent lied to you or if your agent dropped the ball on something & isn’t being straight with you. To answer the question at hand, I’ll start by saying as both an agent and investor I have mixed feelings about using an agent. While agent’s absolutely should go with the highest offer regardless of what commission they get, expecting agents to put their clients ahead of themselves, good luck with that. On the other hand a good agent can definitely negotiate well for you and frankly just having a 2nd set of eyes is good if the agent is looking out for you, you can also play some good cop/bad cop negotiation strategy which I’ve found to be very effective. Otoh you don’t want to lose a good deal over it, I’d say it depends on your own experience level, how good the deal is and your relationship with your current agent and if you except to have an ongoing with him.
  • Stuart UdisPro Member
    Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Unless you received back the counter signed purchase agreement your offer was not accepted. Secondly, the brokerage business is commission oriented so yes, many brokers are going to be motivated by the prospect of collecting both sides of the commission. Not all brokers operate this way but I frequently experience different treatment when I approach a listing agent as a buyer as opposed to as a broker representing myself or a broker representing a 3rd party. Find out if the listing agent represented the ultimate buyer as a dual agent and what the final purchase terms were and that will indicate whether the listing agent was motivated by collecting both sides of the commission.

  • Member since 2022 · 53 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Basit Siddiqi:
    Quote from @John S.:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Im a little unclear here. Did you not actually have a contract to buy the property?


     No, we were waiting to do inspection.

    That is strange, you normally get an inspection after getting under contract.
    I would never get an inspection if not under contract.

    I just asked my agent about this and he said:

    "That's not the way it works in NY. There’s no inspection contingencies in NY therefore you would never sign a contract before having an inspection unless you were completely waiving your inspection as mentioned during the process. That's how it works in escrow (non-attorney) states."

    Thoughts?
  • Member since 2022 · 53 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sean Hudgins:

    Interesting story. I want to touch on something that stood out to me in the story first, and then I will give my opinion on the dual agency approach. 

    When you got the "Offer accepted," what should have happened was that the offer should have been signed by both parties and ratified. Now, I am in Virginia, and I will not pretend I know exactly how RE transactions are done in NY. But here in VA, an offer is only accepted once it is ratified, i.e. signed by both parties, holding both parties to the terms of the deal. It sounds like you got a word-of-mouth acceptance, and your agent should have pushed hard to get the signed contract completed so that the sellers would be in breach of contract by accepting another offer, and you would have grounds for a lawsuit if they did. To me, this was a big blunder on your agent's part.

    Now, Dual Agency is a tricky business. My perspective on this as a buyer and investor is that if you are savvy enough to look out for yourself, then it can be a good way to get on the inside of the deal. Technically (once again in VA), if I represent both parties to a transaction with dual agency, I really no longer represent either party. The agent is only an intermediary between the buyer and seller at that point. Now, plenty of agents out there will see this as a way to double their commission, and they will push to make the deal happen, which is not ethical or legal.

    As an agent, I don't like dual agency, and I would rather get a referral fee by sending the buyer to another agent so that I can do my job of representing the seller, which is what they are paying for. I have seen that usually, in a dual agency situation, one party feels like they lost out somehow and it opens up the way too many opportunities for me as the agent to get sued.


    I just asked my agent about this and he said:

    "That's not the way it works in NY. There’s no inspection contingencies in NY therefore you would never sign a contract before having an inspection unless you were completely waiving your inspection as mentioned during the process. That's how it works in escrow (non-attorney) states."

    Thoughts?
  • Member since 2023 · 1 post · 0 votes
    2y
    Quote from @John S.:
    Quote from @Sean Hudgins:

    Interesting story. I want to touch on something that stood out to me in the story first, and then I will give my opinion on the dual agency approach. 

    When you got the "Offer accepted," what should have happened was that the offer should have been signed by both parties and ratified. Now, I am in Virginia, and I will not pretend I know exactly how RE transactions are done in NY. But here in VA, an offer is only accepted once it is ratified, i.e. signed by both parties, holding both parties to the terms of the deal. It sounds like you got a word-of-mouth acceptance, and your agent should have pushed hard to get the signed contract completed so that the sellers would be in breach of contract by accepting another offer, and you would have grounds for a lawsuit if they did. To me, this was a big blunder on your agent's part.

    Now, Dual Agency is a tricky business. My perspective on this as a buyer and investor is that if you are savvy enough to look out for yourself, then it can be a good way to get on the inside of the deal. Technically (once again in VA), if I represent both parties to a transaction with dual agency, I really no longer represent either party. The agent is only an intermediary between the buyer and seller at that point. Now, plenty of agents out there will see this as a way to double their commission, and they will push to make the deal happen, which is not ethical or legal.

    As an agent, I don't like dual agency, and I would rather get a referral fee by sending the buyer to another agent so that I can do my job of representing the seller, which is what they are paying for. I have seen that usually, in a dual agency situation, one party feels like they lost out somehow and it opens up the way too many opportunities for me as the agent to get sued.


    I just asked my agent about this and he said:

    "That's not the way it works in NY. There’s no inspection contingencies in NY therefore you would never sign a contract before having an inspection unless you were completely waiving your inspection as mentioned during the process. That's how it works in escrow (non-attorney) states."

    Thoughts?

     My experience has been your purchase contract is just that, a contract. You can put whatever stipulations you like, it’s a matter of whether the seller will accept. All else being equal, the seller will prefer no inspection contingency. That said…. Properties represented as being in good working order will understand this is just due diligence and not likely to be an issue, and typically accept such terms.

  • Member since 2022 · 53 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Robert Meck:
    Quote from @John S.:
    Quote from @Sean Hudgins:

    Interesting story. I want to touch on something that stood out to me in the story first, and then I will give my opinion on the dual agency approach. 

    When you got the "Offer accepted," what should have happened was that the offer should have been signed by both parties and ratified. Now, I am in Virginia, and I will not pretend I know exactly how RE transactions are done in NY. But here in VA, an offer is only accepted once it is ratified, i.e. signed by both parties, holding both parties to the terms of the deal. It sounds like you got a word-of-mouth acceptance, and your agent should have pushed hard to get the signed contract completed so that the sellers would be in breach of contract by accepting another offer, and you would have grounds for a lawsuit if they did. To me, this was a big blunder on your agent's part.

    Now, Dual Agency is a tricky business. My perspective on this as a buyer and investor is that if you are savvy enough to look out for yourself, then it can be a good way to get on the inside of the deal. Technically (once again in VA), if I represent both parties to a transaction with dual agency, I really no longer represent either party. The agent is only an intermediary between the buyer and seller at that point. Now, plenty of agents out there will see this as a way to double their commission, and they will push to make the deal happen, which is not ethical or legal.

    As an agent, I don't like dual agency, and I would rather get a referral fee by sending the buyer to another agent so that I can do my job of representing the seller, which is what they are paying for. I have seen that usually, in a dual agency situation, one party feels like they lost out somehow and it opens up the way too many opportunities for me as the agent to get sued.


    I just asked my agent about this and he said:

    "That's not the way it works in NY. There’s no inspection contingencies in NY therefore you would never sign a contract before having an inspection unless you were completely waiving your inspection as mentioned during the process. That's how it works in escrow (non-attorney) states."

    Thoughts?

     My experience has been your purchase contract is just that, a contract. You can put whatever stipulations you like, it’s a matter of whether the seller will accept. All else being equal, the seller will prefer no inspection contingency. That said…. Properties represented as being in good working order will understand this is just due diligence and not likely to be an issue, and typically accept such terms.


     I just asked my agent about this and he said:

    "That's not the way it works in NY. There’s no inspection contingencies in NY therefore you would never sign a contract before having an inspection unless you were completely waiving your inspection as mentioned during the process. That's how it works in escrow (non-attorney) states."

    Thoughts?

  • Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    I am with your father here.  I always go with the listing agent.  they are motivated by keeping all of the commission. Plus they know the most about the property directly.

  • Real Estate Agent · NJ & NY · Member since 2022 · 99 posts · 53 votes
    2y

    As a buyer, there is no reason to not work with a buyers agent if you have a buy box and are looking for a specific criteria. The buyer agent will do the looking for you, and do it better than you can. You are receiving free outreach, negotiation, communication, interpretation and expert real estate knowledge paid for my the seller. However, working with an incompetent agent will be more hurtful than helpful. Not to say the agent you worked with was in this situation, but a great agent should be able to read the opposite agent and situation, pick up the fact the seller was screwing you over, and react accordingly. If you already identified a property you wanted like so in this case, you don't need a buyer agent to do the searching for you for obvious reasons, and working with the listing agent gives him the incentive to encourage your offer so he/she receives double commission. If you know what you want, go right to the listing agent. If you are still trying to identify a property but have your buy box, go with a buyers agent. If you want any further advice on any matters, I am a realtor in NY doing business in Brooklyn and Long Isand working with investors/developers. Contact me anytime

  • Brandon CohenPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · New York, NY · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 45 votes
    2y

    Sorry if I’m repetitive here, lots of replies!  
    an accepted offer is not binding until a contract is signed and deposit is made.  From the sellers perspective (especially in a hot market) a seller won’t wrap up a deal with contingencies in place as they’re likely to miss out on other buyer AND buyers often back out.  


    As for working with a buyers agent: this industry has a very low barrier to entry, and therefore there are a lot of horrendous professionals, and a bunch of good ones.  You may not always get the deal, but the good ones will put every effort forward in attempts to do so.  If you’re new, I’d suggest using someone to represent you.  And use a great attorney as well (my brother is LI based, FYI, happy to connect you).  Good luck!

  • Real Estate Broker · New York, NY · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Hey @John S. - It's been a few weeks since you posted this so the situation may have changed completely. 

    I'm an investor and broker, and have brokered transactions in LI too. 

    You don't *have* to use a buyer's agent, if you know what you're doing. As a buyer, your agent's job is to represent your best interest and take out a lot of the grunt work you'd have to do up front - all while doing other qualitative work such as: negotiations, deal structuring, offer terms, etc. 

    In terms of this situation - I can attest to what your broker mentioned about inspections, in NYC/LI the inspection is done *after* offer accepted and *before* contracts have been signed.

    What you've experienced is unfortunately very common whenever there's a listing that's getting a lot of attention... you had a verbally/written accepted offer and the seller decided to change their mind BEFORE signing any contracts.

    Your broker probably could have done a better job of keeping the momentum going from the seller's side, but ultimately you can't change the seller's mind if they decide to keep showing the property (not illegal) and collect/negotiate more offers (not illegal). 

    Everything is fair game until contracts have been signed by BOTH parties :) 

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