Purchased duplex, seller (who was the agent) hid many things
Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 8 votes
Purchased duplex, seller (who was the agent) hid many things
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Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votesI am a little confused why you think an inspector shouldn't find light fixtures that don't work, that's definitely part of their job. I also don't think it's that hard to find wallpaper over holes in the wall, but I can see someone missing that one. You can't honestly think rugs over a floor are going to make it not as is. If it's not wall-to-wall carpeting, you can just lift them up and look. It's not her fault you didn't even if it's a bit don't ask, don't tell on her part. She is definitely shady, but you have no case at all here. Almost everything you mentioned someone should have found.
11 Replies
- 4yMatt PursleyPro MemberInvestor · Greensboro, NC · Member since 2020 · 96 posts · 73 votes
One of the first quotes I heard in real estate was, "Buyers are Liars and sellers are too". I'm not saying it's completely true, but......the school of hard knocks is the best there is. You're doing the right thing by asking the attorney. Not sure where you're located, but in "Buyer Beware" States, there's really no way to "Prove" that she knew. Yes it is her obligation to disclose, but if she says she doesnt know, then there's not much more you can say.
Unless your attorney advises you otherwise, I hate to say I'm not sure there is anything you CAN do. I hope it works out for you for the best and I'm sorry you're going through this. There so much money to be made in real estate, but it's guaranteed to give you some headaches.
- 4yJonathan GreeneBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
I am a little confused why you think an inspector shouldn't find light fixtures that don't work, that's definitely part of their job. I also don't think it's that hard to find wallpaper over holes in the wall, but I can see someone missing that one. You can't honestly think rugs over a floor are going to make it not as is. If it's not wall-to-wall carpeting, you can just lift them up and look. It's not her fault you didn't even if it's a bit don't ask, don't tell on her part. She is definitely shady, but you have no case at all here. Almost everything you mentioned someone should have found.
- Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes4y
Which state are you in? That can matter.
Some states require a seller condition disclosure be completed on all residential sales.
It covers lots of things from having the right to sell or FROF o4 not to boundary disputes to structure, roof, basement, sewer, etc. In WA it's called a Form 17.
Does your state require one and did she fill one out? Not doimg it or lying on it could give you grounds for comp.
- Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 8 votes4y
Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
Which state are you in? That can matter.
Some states require a seller condition disclosure be completed on all residential sales.
It covers lots of things from having the right to sell or FROF o4 not to boundary disputes to structure, roof, basement, sewer, etc. In WA it's called a Form 17.
Does your state require one and did she fill one out? Not doimg it or lying on it could give you grounds for comp.
What she did was put a large wall to wall rug in each room and had tables and chairs over them. There was no way to check under the wall to wall rugs to see the deep scratches in the middle of each of the rooms. As for the wall paper, she had holes in the bathroom and living room. What she did was wallpaper those walls completely and left the holes as is. with picture frames covering them. There was literally no way to see this without removing the wallpaper. The light fixtures she said had dead bulbs, that is all, so the inspector thought nothing of it. I changed the bulbs the other day, some of them do not light, so I replacing two chandeliers and one vanity light w/ mirror. The home is in the State of NJ, and since this was a known material defect, as a realtor, I believe she was required to disclose this. If this was only a couple grand, I wouldn't give a crap, but labor alone for the repairing the walls, bathroom and floors is around 4k and we're still adding up all the costs for the supplies. She did do a property disclosure report, but I do not believe this stuff is listed in the report. - Real Estate Agent/Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes4y
Hand the seller disclosure to your attorney and ask if you have a case. Submit a complaint to your state real estate department with documented evidence of everything you find to fall under 'failure to disclose'.
The light fixture thing is on your inspector. Dead bulbs or not, that seems like something a good inspector should find out about.
Ultimately, it comes down to proof. As the saying goes, "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove." Can you prove she put the wallpaper up to cover the holes? Can you prove she didn't know the difference between dead bulbs and a bad fixture?
You may not get anything in court in terms of compensation, but I'd definitely file a complaint with the real estate department ASAP. Document everything thoroughly. Best of luck going forward.
- Real Estate Broker · Montclair NJ · Member since 2019 · 17 posts · 17 votes4y
I am very sorry this happened to you. I am wondering if you had a real estate agent represent your side of the transaction? And if you used an inspector, and if so, were they chosen by you, or did the agent recommend them?
If you didn't use your own agent. Please do. Many buyers and investors don't use an experienced real estate agent to cut costs, when usually as the buyer you don't pay for the agent's services, rather the seller does at closing. Hope this is helpful for your next purchase.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I studied this information recently while getting my real estate broker's license. According to the National Association of Realtors- https://www.nar.realtor/ (Which, not all real estate agents are members of), there is a strict Code of Ethics you can read on their website.
Articles 1-9 address "Duties to Clients and Customers". Specifically, Article 2 relates to DISCLOSURE. Here you may want to contact the local Board of Realtors to file a complaint and ALSO file a complaint with your state's real estate commission. From what I understand, both encourage parties to mediate vs court cases.
Please note, based on my experience, most general home inspectors do a basic home inspection and will check, identify, document, and make recommendations if needed for other specific inspections. I always suggest additional inspections regardless for my home buyers - in addition to the general inspector - before a deal is closed. This can include inspectors for pools, environmental, sewer lines, underground oil tanks (In NJ), electric, pest, or foundation.
Hope this is helpful to you somehow.
- Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 8 votes4y
Quote from @Maria Afsharian:
I am very sorry this happened to you. I am wondering if you had a real estate agent represent your side of the transaction? And if you used an inspector, and if so, were they chosen by you, or did the agent recommend them?
If you didn't use your own agent. Please do. Many buyers and investors don't use an experienced real estate agent to cut costs, when usually as the buyer you don't pay for the agent's services, rather the seller does at closing. Hope this is helpful for your next purchase.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I studied this information recently while getting my real estate broker's license. According to the National Association of Realtors- https://www.nar.realtor/ (Which, not all real estate agents are members of), there is a strict Code of Ethics you can read on their website.
Articles 1-9 address "Duties to Clients and Customers". Specifically, Article 2 relates to DISCLOSURE. Here you may want to contact the local Board of Realtors to file a complaint and ALSO file a complaint with your state's real estate commission. From what I understand, both encourage parties to mediate vs court cases.
Please note, based on my experience, most general home inspectors do a basic home inspection and will check, identify, document, and make recommendations if needed for other specific inspections. I always suggest additional inspections regardless for my home buyers - in addition to the general inspector - before a deal is closed. This can include inspectors for pools, environmental, sewer lines, underground oil tanks (In NJ), electric, pest, or foundation.
Hope this is helpful to you somehow.
Hello and thank you for your reply! I used my realtor from a previous purchase who has been an agent since the 1980s. She recommended the inspector, as the one's I was used to using were all booked. I voiced my issues with her and she said she was going to speak to her broker and the board about it. It's been silence for three weeks on her end. I am taking the real estate course in NJ now so I something like this is mitigated in the future. I'd post the pictures, but I do not want to link this to a pending case against the agent. There really was no way to find out about the flooring and the holes behind the wallpaper. Even the attorney was taken back when I shown the videos of before and after; timestamped, of course. One wouldn't know about this until after the rugs and wallpaper were removed. The previous owner removed the rugs and we saw the damage once she moved out. The wallpaper was removed because it was peeling and most people who saw it requested it to be removed. I did a showing the say she moved out, and both me and the prospective tenant saw the bare floors at the same time. It was the quickest cancellation I've even been through. I think the potential tenant was in the apt with me for less than a minute. Yes, that's how bad it was. I've already replaced the two chandeliers, vanity mirror, and vanity lights in the bathroom. The wall repair is taking several new pieces of mold resistant sheetrock and then the sanders and wood repair company is coming in to do their work. That's the most expensive due to the cost of wood. I will do what you and @Bob Okenwa suggested. Thank you both.
- Real Estate Broker · Montclair NJ · Member since 2019 · 17 posts · 17 votes4y
Quote from @Michael Chalke:
Quote from @Maria Afsharian:
I am very sorry this happened to you. I am wondering if you had a real estate agent represent your side of the transaction? And if you used an inspector, and if so, were they chosen by you, or did the agent recommend them?
If you didn't use your own agent. Please do. Many buyers and investors don't use an experienced real estate agent to cut costs, when usually as the buyer you don't pay for the agent's services, rather the seller does at closing. Hope this is helpful for your next purchase.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I studied this information recently while getting my real estate broker's license. According to the National Association of Realtors- https://www.nar.realtor/ (Which, not all real estate agents are members of), there is a strict Code of Ethics you can read on their website.
Articles 1-9 address "Duties to Clients and Customers". Specifically, Article 2 relates to DISCLOSURE. Here you may want to contact the local Board of Realtors to file a complaint and ALSO file a complaint with your state's real estate commission. From what I understand, both encourage parties to mediate vs court cases.
Please note, based on my experience, most general home inspectors do a basic home inspection and will check, identify, document, and make recommendations if needed for other specific inspections. I always suggest additional inspections regardless for my home buyers - in addition to the general inspector - before a deal is closed. This can include inspectors for pools, environmental, sewer lines, underground oil tanks (In NJ), electric, pest, or foundation.
Hope this is helpful to you somehow.
Hello and thank you for your reply! I used my realtor from a previous purchase who has been an agent since the 1980s. She recommended the inspector, as the one's I was used to using were all booked. I voiced my issues with her and she said she was going to speak to her broker and the board about it. It's been silence for three weeks on her end. I am taking the real estate course in NJ now so I something like this is mitigated in the future. I'd post the pictures, but I do not want to link this to a pending case against the agent. There really was no way to find out about the flooring and the holes behind the wallpaper. Even the attorney was taken back when I shown the videos of before and after; timestamped, of course. One wouldn't know about this until after the rugs and wallpaper were removed. The previous owner removed the rugs and we saw the damage once she moved out. The wallpaper was removed because it was peeling and most people who saw it requested it to be removed. I did a showing the say she moved out, and both me and the prospective tenant saw the bare floors at the same time. It was the quickest cancellation I've even been through. I think the potential tenant was in the apt with me for less than a minute. Yes, that's how bad it was. I've already replaced the two chandeliers, vanity mirror, and vanity lights in the bathroom. The wall repair is taking several new pieces of mold resistant sheetrock and then the sanders and wood repair company is coming in to do their work. That's the most expensive due to the cost of wood. I will do what you and @Bob Okenwa suggested. Thank you both.
As a real estate agent. I commend you for thinking about how this situation would affect the agent. Please keep us posted. I learn from these posts as well.
- Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 728 posts · 596 votes4y
@Michael Chalke
All the issues sound like things you or an inspector should have known about. Your lack of due diligence is not the sellers issue.
I have never had a seller tell me about gouges in the floor or holes in the walls. I notice them and adjust my initial offer. Once you are closed, work to fix the issues and move on.
- Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 8 votes4y
Quote from @Curtis Mears:
@Michael Chalke
All the issues sound like things you or an inspector should have known about. Your lack of due diligence is not the sellers issue.
I have never had a seller tell me about gouges in the floor or holes in the walls. I notice them and adjust my initial offer. Once you are closed, work to fix the issues and move on.
Appreciate your two cents. While a seller may not have to disclose this information, a real estate agent who knows of this does. The seller was the selling real estate agent. That is what you are not understanding. However, you're a property manager, so I can see how one would pass this on as buyers error. - 4yChase LowryPro MemberCleveland · Member since 2021 · 95 posts · 52 votes
This sucks, but will be a good lesson to learn from.
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