36 unit in suburb of Columbus, Oh

36 unit in suburb of Columbus, Oh

Heath, OH · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 4 votes

First, a little about me. My wife and I have had a few really good years with our business so I took the profits and spent the last year building a small portfolio of 21 units in Columbus and Newark, OH. We have quite a few SFH, a couple of duplexes, a quad and 2 weeks ago closed on my first 6 unit. Most of the units are C's but have a few B's. I didn't really know what I was doing so I started out using all cash thinking it was the safest route but recently started using both owner and bank financing to leverage the cash I have left. I have really only bought home run's. Earlier this year, I bought a foreclosure for 50K for cash, put 2K into it, then it appraised for 100K so right now I'm doing a cash out refi and getting back 70K. Oh, and it rents for $1500/mo!

That is how most of my portfolio is. Not including maintenance (which I mostly do myself and has been averaging just $175 per month) or capex, anything over 46% occupancy covers all of my costs. I read somewhere on here that not including management costs, not paying out for maintenance and not including capex and calling what you have left profit is not really profit. Got it but not sure what else to call it! My wife has been managing our business and now all of my time goes to real estate so if you want to call it a job, I'm ok with that. The longest I've had a unit sit vacant is 10 days. I take good care of the units and the word is out. I have a waiting list from current tenants' friends and relatives.

At any rate, it takes A LOT of time to find those deals. I've probably looked at close to 250 deals in the last year. And I bought up every one that fit the criteria I was looking for. The good deals have been much harder to come by in the last few months and I think finding 21 more units like the ones I have will take a lot of effort. 42 more would take forever.

Which finally brings me to the reason for my post. I told you what my strategy has been to date. This is quite a bit different and so I'm looking for some advice.

The off market deal:

36 units asking $825,000. 2 buildings with 18 units each. Built in the early 70's. All brick. Tenants pay all utilities. Radiant electric heat in floors in one building and gas furnaces in another. All single pane, older windows. Roofs 8 years old. Cast iron plumbing. One building is gas and as I understood it, is concrete floors and walls as firebarrier. I imagine this would be a pain when it comes to plumbing repairs. The other building is electric and is stick built.

23 1 BR units averaged @ $397 per month.

1 1 BR unit converted into laundry @ $0 per month.

12 2 BR units averaged @ $427 per month.

Gross $14,255

Expenses (owner claimed) $2000 - I will be managing the building myself and doing most of the maintenance.

Taxes $916

Insurance $566

Net $10,773

Mortgage $5536

Cash flow $5237

Owner is willing to carry financing. 10% down. 5 years at 6.5% then jumps to 8% in the hope I'll get traditional financing within that time.

The building is probably the lowest rents in the entire city (I wouldn't call it a town, but it's a pretty small city). The building manager told me this was because it wasn't a very nice area and attracting higher paying tenants was a problem. As it turns out, it has been poorly managed for quite a while. They have the lowest rent and attract the type of tenant that can only afford the lowest rent. Which in turn drives out the decent tenants so they have to further reduce rent to attract more low paying tenants. The good news is they have very few vacancies. The bad news is when I started asking around, most people with options would prefer not to live there because management "either doesn't see or doesn't want to see" what goes on there. The area is pretty nice, however. To me, I see that as opportunity. If I run out the drugs, low lifes and trouble makers and turn around the reputation, in a few years I can get rents to where they should be which would add about $4000 per month in revenue.

So there's the deal. This would be a big step for me. My gut says jump in with both feet like I always do. But there's a part of my brain that is making me nervous (or could be my friends and family who all work real jobs and don't have a penny saved that want to give me investment advice....) It would be nice because I'd have 36 units in one place. But that is putting a lot of eggs in one basket. And if I do this deal, it will probably be the last one I do for a while as it will eat up a lot of the cash I have left.

What do you guys think? Is this a deal you'd do? Thanks in advance!

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Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 388 posts · 563 votes
10y

@Bill McCartney, interesting property. I've had experiences in properties somewhat similar to this- a problematic ten unit brick building in my primary stomping ground of Troy, NY, comes to mind. The tenants were extremely challenging when I acquired it, and after several years, we managed to increase the quality of the tenant base somewhat, but not as much as we'd hoped- the building's reputation preceded us, unfortunately.

Then things changed quite suddenly and I think this story is relevant to your potential acquisition. So for that and for amusement's sake, I'll give a snippet- I was on vacation, and got a text at 11 PM from management. I knew that good news wouldn't follow. Turned out one of our tenants had burned their apartment down- total loss of property, was fortunate in that it was largely contained to one apartment(cigarette in the kitchen garbage can, then out to dinner, those fools.) My manager said to me, "It's so strange, they were 2 months behind on rent, and they just paid their renter's insurance this morning!" I replied, "Odd isn't the right word, let's go with "suspicious."" 

So we decided(or really, it was decided for us) that we'd completely rehab the apartment. And we went with excellent finishes- I thought, why not update this baby? And when we did, we also raised the rent by 15%, and got the best tenant we'd ever had in that building. So a eureka moment followed- why not do the same upgrades to the remaining 9 units as they turned over? Over the next year, we modernized(re-did kitchens and baths, essentially) about 7 apartments, raised the rents on those apartments by 15%, and the tenant base changed almost immediately. The building became a desirable place to live, occupancy(which had been 80% at best) zoomed to almost 100%, with very short turnover times in between move-outs. Problem tenants? Nope, no more. (side note- after rehabbing the apartment completely, the tenant texted us and asked if they could have their apartment back- not that they tried to become current on their back rent or anything like that. Oh, the humanity.)

You have a thornier situation, I think, as 36 units is more challenging than 10, and rehabbing a substantial fraction of those units will be expensive. What leapt out at me was the electric heating- my guess is that exerts substantial downward pressure on the rents there. Residents know how expensive that can be, and insulation requirements in the 70s were much lower than they are today- throw in the single pane windows, and oofah! That place has gotta be expensive to heat. I'd look into the possibility of installing heat pumps with electric heating elements for very cold days(one per unit, hopefully, in the units which currently have electric heat) these can be installed in the window much like typical air conditioners and they will function as air conditioners in the summer- some can be installed through the wall. This might be your most inexpensive path to lower heating bills for residents. As a contractor, you probably know more about this stuff than I do. Maybe look into some better insulation. And upgrade the units aggressively and en masse- if you can manage to change the building's reputation rapidly, you'll be able to raise rents sharply and quickly. 

I think under-rented situations offer the most promise for stellar returns, especially when those low rents are a direct result of poor management, inefficient building systems, and poorly finished apartments, as those problems are generally fixable. 

MG

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  • Heath, OH · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 4 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Schlichter:

    Seems like a good deal with a huge upside potential with very minimal downside. I don't know what neighborhood or town you're in, but most of central Ohio anymore is above $500/1br and $600/2br unless you're in an absolute slum (And if you're within 2 counties of Franklin, from what I see those don't exist).

    My thought would be to slowly raise rents over a 2-3 year period, and let the tenants know up front what's going to happen. Here in Circleville someone did it with a 32 unit, raised rents from $450 to $699 for 2br apartments, and they went from ~50% occupancy to 100% when it was done (including upgrades as well). So you WILL need to budget at least some money for quality upgrades to attract decent tenants. 

     What I was thinking was to identify quality tenants and label them as keep, marginal, and problem. All newer tenants are month to month. The manager said this was to be able to evict them at will if they become problems. In this scenario, it works out well for me.

    Then I'd evict as soon as possible (immediately or at first breach of lease) the problem pile. Upgrade these units during turn. Attract higher quality tenants and increased rents in the upgraded units. I'd allow the good (and maybe marginal) tenants to keep their current rates. If they chose to move to an upgraded until with an increased price, do that as units were available. 

    Sound good? 

  • Heath, OH · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 4 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Clifford Kearns:

    Bill

    From what I read I hope that you have already closed on that deal! There is plentyof room for more cash flow to come get the cancer out so that the complex with be in good health!!

    Clifford

     Got Letter of Intent with contract docs from attorney on Friday! Up to 5 days for contract review and up to 21 days for inspection and due diligence. Should be closed by the end of the month if all turns out as planned! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Grand Haven, MI · Member since 2015 · 150 posts · 127 votes
    10y

    Bill, it sounds like a great opportunity to buy a property management job. But when push comes to shove - at that price, with current rents, and a high interest mortgage - turning a handsome profit will be difficult when you're tired of managing and repairing the units yourself.

    It's very different opportunity than your current property portfolio. Better a little caution than great regret.

  • Heath, OH · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 4 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Kase Knochenhauer:

    Bill, it sounds like a great opportunity to buy a property management job. But when push comes to shove - at that price, with current rents, and a high interest mortgage - turning a handsome profit will be difficult when you're tired of managing and repairing the units yourself.

    It's very different opportunity than your current property portfolio. Better a little caution than great regret.

     Trust me, I've thought that through 1000xs and is the real reason I posted on here.

    The question boils down to.... I'm 30. My kids are young. RE is my full time gig now. The return is roughly half of what I've been getting, but I'll have more units in one place than all of my other rentals combined. 

    This building will be the difference of my wife having to continue to manage our other business vs hiring that out and being able to live comfortably off of our rentals with her being able to devote 100% to our children. That business is a nightmare (kind of). My logic is that if either of us HAVE to work, I'd much be rather it be me working real estate where I have much control vs her working the business where we're dependant on contractors, clients and the market which are all notoriously unreliable, very stressful and very time consuming. 

    I'm way under-leveraged right now. I'm thinking in 2 years, I can get rent up on the apt, refi the entire portfolio with a portfolio lender at roughly 50-60% LTV. Get a decent rate, stretch it all out on a 20 year amortization, cash flow and extra 35% over what in at now and hire it all out. Or keep working and bank more cash to keep investing. I'll be 32 making more on rentals than most professionals.

    It would take me at least another 2 years to aquire 36 units at the unreasonably high rate of return I've been getting. And having all of those rentals spread out over 3 counties and more than doubling it seems like a LOT of work vs lower rate of return but them all being within 20 steps of each other. Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

  • Rental Property Investor · Grand Haven, MI · Member since 2015 · 150 posts · 127 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Bill McCartney:
    Originally posted by @Kase Knochenhauer:

    Bill, it sounds like a great opportunity to buy a property management job. But when push comes to shove - at that price, with current rents, and a high interest mortgage - turning a handsome profit will be difficult when you're tired of managing and repairing the units yourself.

    It's very different opportunity than your current property portfolio. Better a little caution than great regret.

     Trust me, I've thought that through 1000xs and is the real reason I posted on here.

    The question boils down to.... I'm 30. My kids are young. RE is my full time gig now. The return is roughly half of what I've been getting, but I'll have more units in one place than all of my other rentals combined. 

    This building will be the difference of my wife having to continue to manage our other business vs hiring that out and being able to live comfortably off of our rentals with her being able to devote 100% to our children. That business is a nightmare (kind of). My logic is that if either of us HAVE to work, I'd much be rather it be me working real estate where I have much control vs her working the business where we're dependant on contractors, clients and the market which are all notoriously unreliable, very stressful and very time consuming. 

    I'm way under-leveraged right now. I'm thinking in 2 years, I can get rent up on the apt, refi the entire portfolio with a portfolio lender at roughly 50-60% LTV. Get a decent rate, stretch it all out on a 20 year amortization, cash flow and extra 35% over what in at now and hire it all out. Or keep working and bank more cash to keep investing. I'll be 32 making more on rentals than most professionals.

    It would take me at least another 2 years to aquire 36 units at the unreasonably high rate of return I've been getting. And having all of those rentals spread out over 3 counties and more than doubling it seems like a LOT of work vs lower rate of return but them all being within 20 steps of each other. Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

    Bill, it sounds like you've been thinking plenty about it and considering it from numerous angles. Here's the decision as I see it:

    Does the time flexibility and lucrative pay of being a property manager outweigh the highly illiquid nature of this  investment?

    Secondly, would you purchase the complex if you couldn't manage it yourself? If not, I'd think twice about the purchase.

  • Real Estate Marketing Professional · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 299 posts · 125 votes
    10y

    You're welcome! :)

  • Robert EllisBusiness Member
    Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Bill McCartney:

    First, a little about me. My wife and I have had a few really good years with our business so I took the profits and spent the last year building a small portfolio of 21 units in Columbus and Newark, OH. We have quite a few SFH, a couple of duplexes, a quad and 2 weeks ago closed on my first 6 unit. Most of the units are C's but have a few B's. I didn't really know what I was doing so I started out using all cash thinking it was the safest route but recently started using both owner and bank financing to leverage the cash I have left. I have really only bought home run's. Earlier this year, I bought a foreclosure for 50K for cash, put 2K into it, then it appraised for 100K so right now I'm doing a cash out refi and getting back 70K. Oh, and it rents for $1500/mo!

    That is how most of my portfolio is. Not including maintenance (which I mostly do myself and has been averaging just $175 per month) or capex, anything over 46% occupancy covers all of my costs. I read somewhere on here that not including management costs, not paying out for maintenance and not including capex and calling what you have left profit is not really profit. Got it but not sure what else to call it! My wife has been managing our business and now all of my time goes to real estate so if you want to call it a job, I'm ok with that. The longest I've had a unit sit vacant is 10 days. I take good care of the units and the word is out. I have a waiting list from current tenants' friends and relatives.

    At any rate, it takes A LOT of time to find those deals. I've probably looked at close to 250 deals in the last year. And I bought up every one that fit the criteria I was looking for. The good deals have been much harder to come by in the last few months and I think finding 21 more units like the ones I have will take a lot of effort. 42 more would take forever.

    Which finally brings me to the reason for my post. I told you what my strategy has been to date. This is quite a bit different and so I'm looking for some advice.

    The off market deal:

    36 units asking $825,000. 2 buildings with 18 units each. Built in the early 70's. All brick. Tenants pay all utilities. Radiant electric heat in floors in one building and gas furnaces in another. All single pane, older windows. Roofs 8 years old. Cast iron plumbing. One building is gas and as I understood it, is concrete floors and walls as firebarrier. I imagine this would be a pain when it comes to plumbing repairs. The other building is electric and is stick built.

    23 1 BR units averaged @ $397 per month.

    1 1 BR unit converted into laundry @ $0 per month.

    12 2 BR units averaged @ $427 per month.

    Gross $14,255

    Expenses (owner claimed) $2000 - I will be managing the building myself and doing most of the maintenance.

    Taxes $916

    Insurance $566

    Net $10,773

    Mortgage $5536

    Cash flow $5237

    Owner is willing to carry financing. 10% down. 5 years at 6.5% then jumps to 8% in the hope I'll get traditional financing within that time.

    The building is probably the lowest rents in the entire city (I wouldn't call it a town, but it's a pretty small city). The building manager told me this was because it wasn't a very nice area and attracting higher paying tenants was a problem. As it turns out, it has been poorly managed for quite a while. They have the lowest rent and attract the type of tenant that can only afford the lowest rent. Which in turn drives out the decent tenants so they have to further reduce rent to attract more low paying tenants. The good news is they have very few vacancies. The bad news is when I started asking around, most people with options would prefer not to live there because management "either doesn't see or doesn't want to see" what goes on there. The area is pretty nice, however. To me, I see that as opportunity. If I run out the drugs, low lifes and trouble makers and turn around the reputation, in a few years I can get rents to where they should be which would add about $4000 per month in revenue.

    So there's the deal. This would be a big step for me. My gut says jump in with both feet like I always do. But there's a part of my brain that is making me nervous (or could be my friends and family who all work real jobs and don't have a penny saved that want to give me investment advice....) It would be nice because I'd have 36 units in one place. But that is putting a lot of eggs in one basket. And if I do this deal, it will probably be the last one I do for a while as it will eat up a lot of the cash I have left.

    What do you guys think? Is this a deal you'd do? Thanks in advance!

     how is this deal a few months later Bill? Could you provide an update? I've had many clients that want to go big like this in a tertiary market outside of the main Central OH outer loop area and this would be a great case example. Have you raised rents?

  • Heath, OH · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    After a very long process, our lawyers finally got the contract hammered out and I did a full inspection of all of the units. I had previously looked at 3 units that they said were representative of the building. As it turns out, there was a ton of deferred maintenance. I expected some, but was blown away by how they've managed the building. Some of the lower units had mold growing on the walls in the utility closests and bathroom ceilings from water leaks that were never addressed. There were furnaces without filters, sink bases that the bottomso had disintegrated from water damage, and ceiling tiles completely brown and falling apart from water. On Friday, I amended my offer to reflect the new conditions. The realtor said he'd take it to the seller but was not optimistic. They haven't done even basic preventative maintenance. They've taken every penny out of the building for a long time and are now trying to pass off the problems. I am still interested in the building but the deal has to be structured differently. It needs a lot of money put into it quickly. I own properties in the hood of Columbus but I'm not a slum lord and won't run my business like that. It's really unfortunate because it's in a good area and has a lot of potential.  

  • Property Manager · Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 195 votes
    9y

    Should this Post be in Forums? Anyway what was your Question?

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 388 posts · 563 votes
    9y

    @Bill McCartney, it sounds like they tried a bait and switch on you. So sad- they showed the three best units to you, told you that they were  representative of the rest, and then you learned the ugly truth. Psychologically, the seller gave you a bit of a feeling of ownership(after which you now have some fear of loss,) and when people own things, they tend to place a higher value on those things prior to taking ownership.

    Why not try this- estimate the annual cash yield on your initial investment(under the theory that the units were all like the initial 3 units,) then adjust your offer downwards such that your percent yield on capital and time invested is unchanged? For example, if you hoped to obtain a 15% yield on your capital and time, revise the offer downward such that you correctly account for your increased capital and time inputs and still come out with a 15% return(for example)? I'd also suggest reducing the offer a bit more to be safe- and it's a good idea to include your rationale for the reduced price along with the offer. Show them what your anticipated rehab costs are. The seller knows what he did- now it's time to punish him for it!

  • Investor · Atascadero, CA · Member since 2015 · 238 posts · 90 votes
    9y

    @Bill McCartney just wondering how this all turned out. Did you buy it?

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