Buying Vacant Land

Buying Vacant Land

Homeowner · West Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 0 votes

Forgive me if this is not the correct forum....

I need help working through an issue in our hunt for land to build a home.

So I live in a small Sububan Chicago town. So small and desirable that there aren't many vacant lots left in town.

I call a guy that is selling his lot (the lot adjacent to my Father's childhood home) and he is asking $240,000 at the time of the call in the summer of 2010.

My search is still going on at the end of 2010 when I learn that the lot owner is acting as the "General Contractor" on my best friends addition. My wife and I decide it is time to approach him again since the property is still available. I plan on calling the guy on a Sunday and my best friend calls me the day before and tells me the lot owner has been served and is looking to get rid of it for what he owes on it which is $150,000. My wife and I are more than excited...

I start doing some research with an appraiser friend of mine and he tells me I might be able to get it a little cheaper, more like $125,000.

I meet the lot owner and starts telling me how he is in a tough spot and just wants to get out of the property for what he owes. I tell him it might be worth a little less. He tells me that he owes about $80,000 on the first mortgage and then he took out an equity line against the home (before it burned down) of about $70,000. He said he will talk to the bank and see if they will negotiate on the equity line. He agrees to call me back after he gets in touch with them in the next day or two. A week goes by and I leave a message for him, another couple days go by and he calls me and tells me that the bank told him to wait for a "package" in the mail that will include his payoff amounts. He got the package and the first one was for about 80k and the second one was for $681,000. He said the band screwed-up and the name is correct on the documents but the loan number is wrong and that he would have to get it straightened out. I then told him that I will just pay what he owes on the property and told him I would like to write up a contract for the property so we have something to present to the bank. He kind of blew it off and said "ok, but let me try to work this out with the bank first". That was two weeks ago and I haven't heard from him since.

During the time spent waiting for him to call back I went to the county and found out he bought the property in 1990 for 78k. In 2003 he refinanced for 114k. Then in 2004 he took out a second mortgage for 70k. In December of 2004 his house burnt down and according to him the insurance company gave him $80,000. I'm assuming he took 30k and put it towards the 114k and pocketed the other 50k. The county also told me that the first property is in foreclosure but the second mortgage is not.

I tried dealing with the bank and they didn't give me any help or I was talking to the wrong person.

My questions is...how do I go about buying this property with a homeowner that isn't interested in selling and a bank that really doesn't own the property.

I am sorry this is so long but any help would be appreciated.

Jerry

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Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
14y

I like Dan's second option. Most builders, in my experience, don't check sheriff sales for vacant land. Especially today when 95% of the properties are under water and will be going to the bank. My thought is that this one will fly under the radar.

Keep track of this, run a title search when the auction date is set (give yourself at least 2 weeks for the title report to come back) and buy it at the auction while you extinguish all junior liens. Also don't forget to check city for tax liens AND do all environmental testing. Don't know about Chi town but here in NJ, leaking underground storage tanks (that used to service oil furnaces) are a huge concern.

Another option is to buy the 1st at a discount and foreclose on the 2nd.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 22 posts · 6 votes
    15y

    We need to figure out how to get you in "control" of the deal (or a little more control anyway). Sounds like the owner may be throwing his hands up because it's not worth the fight with the foreclosure coming soon.

    So you could 1) offer to help him with the second lien situation. Have him give you written authorization to discuss the loan with the two lenders. First, check on time frame with the foreclosing lender (so you don't waste your time) and verify $ amounts. Second, contact second lender to see if the loan # story is true and help clean mess up for owner. (All of this work is only done after you have the owner under contract for your desired purchase price (so you obviously don't do this work and he pats you on the back and says thanks.)) Third, owner still has to convince second lien holder to remove/transfer/work out second lien if it doesn't work with your purchase price.

    2) Buy property at auction or after first lien takes it back. It may bid pretty high if the area is as desirable as you say. Would also want to know what type of redemption periods are in Illinois (how soon you would own the property without anybody coming to try and reverse the foreclosure).

    I am sure there other suggestions from the forum, but these are just the thoughts that first came to my mind.

    Good luck and have fun!

  • Real Estate Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2011 · 34 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    Jerry Planek - please let us know what happened here, the story seemed to be getting good.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    I like Dan's second option. Most builders, in my experience, don't check sheriff sales for vacant land. Especially today when 95% of the properties are under water and will be going to the bank. My thought is that this one will fly under the radar.

    Keep track of this, run a title search when the auction date is set (give yourself at least 2 weeks for the title report to come back) and buy it at the auction while you extinguish all junior liens. Also don't forget to check city for tax liens AND do all environmental testing. Don't know about Chi town but here in NJ, leaking underground storage tanks (that used to service oil furnaces) are a huge concern.

    Another option is to buy the 1st at a discount and foreclose on the 2nd.

  • Real Estate Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2011 · 34 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    Next time you go to your friend's house bring a folder with you with whatever in it, ask the carpenter what he plans to do. Remind him you can virtually solve his current financial bind. He may believe that when he finishes his next job, or your friend's, that he can rescue the situation at the last minute. The nature of contract work is that money comes in lumps, my friend calls it porterhouse or peanut butter. Let him know that his situation seems stressful and that your first choice would be to work with him and not the bank but that you do intend to bid at auction. Lastly, if he is prepared to lose the property then highest bid at auction won't necessarily clear his debt. Most bidders are investors that want the property at a fraction of its value so they can make a profit, as the bids approach market value you may find yourself as last man standing. This too is more stressful for you in that it is a roll of the dice. In any event, this situation is not really that odd, people go into denial and kid themselves all the time. There seems to be a very good chance that you will own that parcel one way or the other. Right now people are being tight with their money and this works in your favor.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    1. I think 158k might be a little rich for the lot but it really is the ideal lot for us and I have little faith that anything else will come up that is this nice. Is there a possibility for a short sale in any of your opinions? –

    Yes. However, generally speaking bankr are typically unwilling to do short sales the closer the sheriff sale approaches. But it doesn’t hurt to ask.

    2. Does anyone know if the 18k can be used towards my downpayment? I won't be able to front the 18k to clear the lien and then another 35% down for the vacant lot loan. –

    see answer #4.

    3. Does anyone know if the bank will just let me take over his payments? That would be ideal. –

    No one can tell you what the bank will or will likely do except the bank. So just ask.

    4. If I am buying the property for what is owed on it, why do I have to pay for the lien before being able to buy the lot? Either way the second mortgage is getting their $$$. I feel a little uncomfortable paying this lien off prior to buying the property. I just feel like I am leaving myself open to be taking advantage of. –

    This may be the way the seller is explaining it but in actuality you will be paying off the lien while simultaneously taking deed (buying) the property. Just make sure you have an attorney or escrow agent/title co. handle the transaction.

    5. The lot to an investor/ builder is probably worth around $100k. To a homeowner I think it is worth around 125-135k. At 158k it is too much in my opinion. Does anybody have any suggestions for getting the property for less? –

    Personally I would try and do a short sale. If not try and get it at the sheriff sale. How much is the bank asking at the sale? Sometimes (esp. in this market) it’s a lot less than what’s actually owed just so they can move the property.
    Either way I wouldn't pay more than the property is worth. you coould send up in the same position as the seller in a year or so. Be careful.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    I think the seller is yanking your chain.Even if the seller has the best of intentions they could be giving you the wrong information.

    This is why you go straight to the bank.First look at the first mortgage and who owns it.Is it a local,regional,or national bank??

    Then once you find this out you need to speak to right person.Redemption rights is what you need to know and foreclosure time line and cost for your state.

    Why not just try and buy the first note at a discount and then start to foreclose?? OR you can also approach the second to buy theirs at a discount or you will wipe them out.

    To do this approach you need all cash to buy the notes.

    For auction at the steps if you go that route you need to find out if you can put money down and get financing or have to pay all cash.

    You need to be talking to the bank on this one.I have seen sellers do all kinds of crazy stuff that doesn't help you as a buyer but is looking out for the seller.If you don't have control and get the info from the horses mouth then don't do the deal.

  • Real Estate Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2011 · 34 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    Your seller has been avoiding you for 11 months. He has been unable to work out a reasonable course of action with his banks and seems likely to be upside down on the financing. There is no reason you should pay for his poor judgement with your cash.As Joel states approach the note holders and at this time get your finance options in place so you have ready funds to make the purchase. Also the note holding banks would rather sell at a discount to you than risk a really weak auction, proverbial bird in the hand. They are also likely to accept less as the auction date approaches.
    In your shoes I would probably get my finances in order and go to the auction. To heck with your seller and to heck with the banks, let them fight it out over what he owes them. If the bidding at the auction gets hot and the price reaches $158K then this is really bad advise, but from the numbers you quote seems unlikely. Take it from me there is a lot of property available at a discount these days.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Joel and Stu give good answers. If you decide to go to the auction, start your bid lower than the upset amount. The plaintiff (lender) may accept a lower bid just to get rid of the property. A discussion with an attorney familiar with auctions in your county is advised.

  • Real Estate Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2011 · 34 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    It has been a few weeks, has anything interesting or potentially amusing happened here?

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    Glar to hear it worked out for you! If you were the only one there, why didn't you bid $10.00 over the opening bid, or $100.00 ? :)
    Oh well, congrats! :)

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