Vandalism before? or after Trust deed sale?

Question

Hi,
Bought a property at the court house steps.  I knew the property and knew it was very clean.  Well the home's real value was about $400k got it for $245k.

I had called the owners before the sale and said I would buy it from them so that would not go on their credit and put $ in their pocket.  They thought I was taking advantage of them and said god would save them.  So this is not your typical situation they had 150k equity in it.

Bought the property at the steps, no one there to bid against me. Sent a friend over to look at property still very nice outside and he could only see inside through the front door glass everything looked fine.  Saw a moving truck.  Posted a nice letter to try to get cash for keys.  Went back a couple days later (yesterday) saw no cars and the place was a wreck.
Holes drilled in all window frames and cabinets, tile.  Holes in walls, appliances damages, toliets broke.  But through the window that room was left untouched.

It has just been a week and we have not received the deed yet to record.  About $45,000 in damage.  Some furniture left he also damaged and spray painted.  So my question is.. Would insurance take care of any of this damage?  I got insurance on the day of the sale.  Would the Banks insurance pay since I don't have the deed yet?  I think he left the state.  CAn he be arrested?  I am calling the sherriff today and the Bank on Monday.
Thanks for your help.

Rich Weese · Answer

Your final post is exactly where it was headed all along. You can't prove when it happened and therefore you have a hard if not impossible case. You could spend another 50K with blood sucking attorneys and get nothing. 
     On all the foreclosures I buy, I try to get pics the day of the sale in anyway possible. Open door, window, request etc. My photos are timed and hold up. I had a repo recently where AFTER I took the pics, the a/c, w/h and lights disappeared. I found the previous owner and "suggested" she take a look at my photo album. She said she preferred not to meet me and what if she could find the items and return them?? We actually met at HER storage unit and found the missing items along with medicine cabs, closet doors, a range, etc. It was quite hilarious. 
     It sounds like you did what you could on this one , but try something different next time. Don't wait ONE MINUTE after buying to go visit deadbeat and take pics. You can often bluff your way into the home and see what you need.I think this flake is gone. Rich in FL.

Jon Holdman · Answer

Not sure if they could be arrested or not, but certainly you want to file a police report on the damage.  Insurance companies will want this.

You can try to sue the former owner for the damage.  I have heard of successful lawsuits in situations like this.  Collecting is another matter.

If the damage happened after the sale, I suspect it would be your insurance company that would have to pay. The vacant house policies I've bough had a pretty large deductible for vandalism, which is what I think they would call this.

But it may depend on local law.   Does the title transfer immediately upon the sale, or are there delays.  Some states have upset periods, some have redemption periods.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing is part of the risk with buying on the steps.  Very sorry this had to happen to you.

Patty Kett · Answer

ok,  You guys won't believe this.  The Sheriff just called and said she talked with the district attorney and he said no crime has taken place.  Because he refused all the notices on the sale (foreclosure) he may not have known he did not own the place when he did the damage. Although I had told him 3 weeks prior about the sale date.

The only way is to ask him if he knew it was not his property when he did the damage.  The sheriff has a call into him but he is under no obligation to call him back.

If he did it before the sale it would be civil matter for the bank and since I can't prove when it was done no crime.  Even though they saw him trimming the trees. 5 days ago.

The insurance said they will come out but since they don't know when it was done they  probably won't pay.

I have a call into the bank about the loan papers he signed  stating that he cannot damage the property but since they don't own it anymore they will not do anything I'm sure.

So worst case for me is I spend $50k and end up with a newly remodeled home the way I wanted it and still have 100 equity in it.

So if you refuse the certified letters, you can legally vandalize the home as much as you want after the court house step sale and then leave and nothing can be done to you.

I knew I was buying as it and because I was nice and knocked on the door and few days after I saw they had a moving van and left a nice letter cash for keys was my mistake.  I should have knocked at the door right after the sale and demanded to inspect the property.  If they said no give them 24 hours and call the sheriff.  This is what the sheriff said. Sure wish someone would have told me that before.  Only thing is I would have been arrested for breaking in without the deed in my hand if they didn't answer.  The good guys always loose.

Scott Hubbard · Answer

A similar thing, to a much smaller degree, happened to me as well several years ago.  After reading your first post, I was reminded of my Sheriffs sale nightmare.  
          
          Lenders never file insurance claims because they are not the beneficiary.... the debtor is.  Caveat Emptor!!
          
          I would hire a plumber and electrician prior to running water or turning the power on!  What you can't see is what I would worry about most.

Jim Wineinger · Answer

When you speak with your attorney have him check your laws for what it called "waste".  While owning a property, it is your responsibility to "prevent waste". The legal defination is different in different states.

If the damage occured before the property was sold, it could be considered as the property owner creating waste on his property, and if after it would be vandalizing (or creating waste) of another persons property.

It is this same "waste laws" that some cities use to charge the property owner when they have to cut the grass, ect.

Joshua Dorkin · Answer

Lets keep politics out of this, guys.  Thanks.

Patty - That's just terrible.  I think we all learned something from this one -- I'm sorry it was at your expense.

Rich Weese · Answer

Cary- I think he may have confused God with The Anointed One. That would explain his thinking, imo... Rich in FL.

Cary Donham · Answer

So this is the same guy that said God would save him and he turns around and does this to the property...... oh the irony.

Patty Kett · Answer

I did just that.  Tomorrow i will call the bank and let them know.  Because I think the issue is going to be when did they do the damage before or after the sale.

Had the sheriff take pictures and a report, she said it is a felony.  Also found out today that the 10 trees on the property were cut 1/2 way through and the neighbors saw him trimming trees last Wed.  Also saw the sprinkler on  last week and he has pulled all the irrigation and valves out.

So my question is even if it was his property and he damaged it, because of the loan and what he signed to get the loan it still would be a felony?  You do not have a right to damage a property unless you have the deed own it outright.???  The Sheriff was unclear on this and was thinking if we could not prove when the damage was done may have a hard time on the arrest.

I know they left the state but had forwarding number of a relative.

Patty Kett · Answer

Thanks,  I am in California.  Well another way to look at it.  I was going to rent for 2 years then move in and do some remodeling anyway.  I will still have only $300k into it  (which is what I would have paid at the steps if someone were to bid against me) and the value will still be about $400k+.

Have a call into my attorney. Just wanted some feedback because it is such a complicated issue.

Any other feedback, stories or issues would be appreciated.

Vandalism before? or after Trust deed sale?

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