Fannie Mae deal is giving me an ulcer!

Fannie Mae deal is giving me an ulcer!

Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes

I hate dealing with Fannie Mae.

I have this FNMA property under contract to close on May 2. There is a separate thread on that HERE, but I think this is a different issue and I need some advice on how to move forward.

I am not using a buyer agent on this deal and have been dealing with the listing agent directly.

So finally two weeks ago, after a bunch of back and forth I got a verbal acceptance from them.

Just a quick comment - I never met the listing agent, she gave me lock box code to see the property myself.

I submitted an offer to them using our standard contract FAR/BAR AS IS form with the FNMA standard REO addendum. Everything was done correctly on my forms. For some reason the listing agent decided that they want to use their own system to create their own forms and send to me to sign instead. In the process turned a simple file from 2.5Mb to 11Mb. But Okay.

In the form I was given, same exact forms, she made two errors. One, she had the closing date wrong, instead of May 2, 2014, she had May 2, 2013. She also had the physical address of the property wrong. I think it was a contract they reuse over and over, so it was some other condo in Miami, but with the correct Folio number and REO number. I called her and said those are wrong, and needs to be corrected, she said oh, sorry, just go ahead and sign them and they will fix it later. I said no. I am not signing a contract that closed a year ago, and to buy the wrong address. I also told them I cannot close May 2 because that whole weekend I am out of town. I asked for May 6.

They corrected the address, the year, but left the closing date as May 2, the date I told them I can't be available to wire money or obtain keys. I have to personally rekey the place as I have no idea how many people she has given lock box codes to.

She said she will do an amendment to change closing date later. She said FNMA system already has May 2 and can't be changed. I told her May is a hectic month with company in town and a couple of business trips, and gave her several days I would be available for closing. I signed the contract and sent it back after my attorney reviewed it, and it took another week before FNMA signed it to make it a fully executed contract.

Since then I had arranged water to be turned on, did regular inspection, did termite inspection etc...all by just going in with the lock box code.

The contract for for $122,500. 10% EMD was $12,250 and wired the day I signed contract. A week later they said they didn't have the wired money. Over 30 text messages, half a dozen emails, I spoke to my bank's wiring department to double check, verified and faxed them the wired transfer confirmation...they said they don't have it. I double checked everything. The wiring had a reference comment which I put the buyer's name and property address. How can they not get it. Finally I called the title company up found out they were looking for the AMOUNT and didn't pay attention to anything else. The amount they were looking for was 12500, not 12250. I said look at contract, the amount was 12250. 10%? Just ignore the last 0. They finally found it.

I informed the listing agent they found it. It took another two days for them to clear it amongst themselves because I continue to get text from LA about money not being wired, or "I should have wired 12500 instead". I was really getting annoyed.

By this time, my attorney called and said he was unable to get in touch with the escrow and title company, or they don't have ANYTHING for him to review now that we are 4 days from May 2 which at this point is still the official closing date although LA has told me repeatedly they will change it to May 6 as I originally requested.

The only thing they have sent him is a lien search update which he said is a joke because it had misleading information and he really needs to see the closing statement to know who's going to pay what.

So on Sat April 26 I received a text from LA, asking if we can close April 30. I said no. I need time to review the title data and I need to pin down the closing date. I reminded her I gave her the days I can close during the first 2 weeks in May.

This morning I received another text, can I close May 9? Sigh. I understand there will not be a physical closing, but I need to walk the place prior to closing to make sure it hasn't burned down, and I need to re-key the place immediately afterwards.

Meanwhile my attorney still hasn't received anything to review, and he is telling me I should expect all sorts of errors and omissions from someone who can't put the right address, the right year for closing date, and to know how much EMD is supposed to be.

Why can't they get their act together?

The last Fannie Mae deal I had, fell apart the day of closing. My attorney NEVER got the closing statement and title to review, they told us that day they had issues and had to re-foreclose. After I spent inspection, survey, HOA doc fees, HOA app fees, city building records archive document fees etc...

Can I cancel out of the deal because "SELLER IS LESS COMPETENT THAN A MONKEY"?

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Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
12y

@Sam Leon I feel your pain. An agent in our office had a closing scheduled where his daughter was buying a FNMA property. Two days before closing "we have a title issue, not sure what it is, but we're working on it". I looked at the FC docket, and the law firm had reopened the foreclosure, and was trying to vacate the judgment. In looking at the case, it was obvious they failed to name the second mortgage holder as a defendant, so they needed to reforeclose. Needless to say, there was no closing. Some may disagree, but I think it's worth the extra $1,000 or so to use your own title co. Their title co. may issue a policy with a laundry list of exceptions, or even fail to do a city lien search (on second thought, maybe that could be a good thing). As for your "agent" she is an inspiration as to what I can strive for :-).

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  • Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 170 votes
    12y

    Sorry man, if possible I would walk away.

    Looks like your attorney is doing well with this deal.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y

    @Sam Leon I feel your pain. An agent in our office had a closing scheduled where his daughter was buying a FNMA property. Two days before closing "we have a title issue, not sure what it is, but we're working on it". I looked at the FC docket, and the law firm had reopened the foreclosure, and was trying to vacate the judgment. In looking at the case, it was obvious they failed to name the second mortgage holder as a defendant, so they needed to reforeclose. Needless to say, there was no closing. Some may disagree, but I think it's worth the extra $1,000 or so to use your own title co. Their title co. may issue a policy with a laundry list of exceptions, or even fail to do a city lien search (on second thought, maybe that could be a good thing). As for your "agent" she is an inspiration as to what I can strive for :-).

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    Wayne, she is definitely an "inspiration"!

    Closing is May 6, today is May 1, only two business days left. My attorney still hasn't received ANYTHING, title commitment, closing statement, ANYTHING at all to review. Calls to title company is not answered, email is not returned.

    I called the listing agent every day to inquire, her response has been "It's Fannie Mae, they do what they want, just sit tigh they are working on hundreds of casest!" HELLO!!! You represent Fannie Mae, you are getting 6% for doing nothing, you can't even type a date and an address correctly, and they can't calculate 10%. What could go wrong?

    I feel like I have no leverage. I fear I am going to get the papers on the afternoon of the 5th littered with errors and then what? My attorney has been saying "I TOLD YOU SO" because she hates dealing with Fannie Mae.

    Can I threaten to not close if they don't expedite?

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    I have purchased several FNMA properties over the years and what you describe is typical of how the transactions proceed. Can you threaten not to close ? Yes but they will keep your EM and with it being $12,250 that is really not an option. I would contact the title company escrow officer to get the information you need.

    When dealing with FNMA, make sure the transaction is going to work for you within the 10 days that FNMA gives you to terminate the contract keeping in mind that the 10 days begins when the offer is ACCEPTED and not when the contract is signed by you or FNMA. Find out who the title company is immediately and begin dealing with them to get the deal done. Finding the title company may be a chore in itself as usually the listing agent does not know and most of the time there is an intermediary law firm that you will need to contact to get the title company

  • Jonna WeberPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes
    12y
    I would urge investors to please consider using a strong buyer's agent for these types of transactions. It will not cost you a penny more, and you will be fully represented. I go to bat for my clients, and it is my entire goal is to come to a successful on time close with a happy buyer.
  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    @Greg H.,

    Yes I am aware of the Acknowledgement Date FNMA uses. The very first FNMA deal I wasn't aware of it, and thought the clock wouldn't start ticking till I got their signatures back. So did my attorney, so did my buyer agent at the time. We were taking our time, and not until I was reading through the REO addendum did I notice that the terminology was a little confusing and asked my buyer agent to confirm with the listing agent what whether AD is the same as our ED (Effective Date). I am glad I did as the inspection was scheduled for AD+12 days (which would have made it totally useless) and we were on AD+8 days and still negotiating on the terms even though the offer was accepted.

    I understand they do what they do. The thing that bugs me is they don't obey their own stated rules. For example their REO addendum clearly says EMD is not expected until 2 days after ED (Effective Date) yet my listing agent insisted EMD be wired the day I submitted the verbally accepted offer. The REO addendum also clearly stated buyer has the rights to choose own escrow company and closing agent yet listing agent said "they" (FNMA) will not move forward unless I use their escrow and title co. When I inquired further the listing agent said FNMA makes their rules but often don't follow their own rules.

    Now as far as the contract, it does state in the Florida State contract, that:

    "TITLE EVIDENCE AND INSURANCE: At least ______ (if blank, then 5) days prior to Closing Date, a title 112 insurance commitment issued by a Florida licensed title insurer, with legible copies of instruments listed as 113 exceptions attached thereto (“Title Commitment”) and, after Closing, an owner’s policy of title insurance (see 114 STANDARD A for terms) shall be obtained and delivered to Buyer. If Seller has an owner’s policy of title 115 insurance covering the Real Property, a copy shall be furnished to Buyer and Closing Agent within 5 days after 116 Effective Date."

    NEITHER of the above has happened. I don't see anything in the REO addendum that superceds this requirement.

    So frustrating.

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    @Jonna Weber,

    I would love to use a buyer agent. In fact I have one which I was using for a while. However in 2013 I failed to make a single deal, didn't even get to first base.

    My buyer agent was always getting the run around, couldn't get keys, seller out of town, busy will call you back, can't show on weekends...and boom "there is a contract on the property". Properties we submitted cash and no contingency offers on, getting rejected only to find out months later, after it was recorded, it was sold for LESS than my offer, or for $250, $500 more than my offer.

    Even my own buyer agent told me later she believes most of the distressed properties (SS and REO) are being manipulated by listing agents giving preferential treatment to deals that allows them to double end the commission. I started to deal with listing agents directly and immediately saw a big difference.

    I would agree with you that SS and REO transactions are the deals you WANT someone to watch your back and go to bat but may be it's locale (South Florida is the fraud capital of real estate) or my luck but it is what it is my experience is I can't even get in the front door with a buyer agent.

    and Fannie Mae is the worse, the last deal with Fannie Mae fell apart due to some title error requiring to reforeclose. They waited till the day of closing to tell us that. Prior to that, little to no communication. I spent $ on inspection, survey, HOA application fee, HOA governing docs order fee, etc etc etc...and it didn't matter if I had a buyer agent or not.

    Actually in this deal, even the listing agent could not get a hold of the title company. No returned calls, left messages, no returned email. Not even acknowledgment of "we heard you but we are ignoring you now".

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    so we finally got a title commitment.

    sent to us by the current title co, but issued in 2012 by a title co which was the predessessor of the current title co, poorly marked up to a current date, with the current title agent saying it should be good.

    No closing statement.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y

    Sure.....what could possibly have happened in the last two years to be of concern?

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    Tomorrow is the "scheduled" closing.

    We still don't have confirmation to close tomorrow. No one would give my attorney a date.

    We still haven't seen the closing statement.

    My attorney found more errors on the poorly marked up title commitment letter. It says "Taxes for the year 2012 which are not yet due and payable". LOL.

    We informed them and they said "will be corrected".

    Do they expect to inform us the day of the closing that it's going to close? This is insane.

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    FINALLY got a proposed closing statement from them.

    On the closing statement in the Buyer's column they completely missed my EMD of 10%.

    We told them and they said there wasn't a deposit.

    We said yes.

    Then they said they couldn't find the deposit. Which takes us back to two weeks or so again where they took a whole week to find my deposit due to their own ignorance.

    Now they are charging me a REKEY fee.

    Do you know how rekey works? Does the rekey happen BEFORE you do the final walk through or after?

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    The listing agent usually co-ordinates the re-key so contact them to make sure it has been done and if not removed from the Closing Statement I have seen it run as high as $150

    Was the EM sent to the current closing company ?

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    The EMD was sent to the FNMA designated title company.

    I wired as per the contract, 10% of the 122,500 offered and accepted price, which was $12,250. They couldn't find it, for a whole week, for some reason thought it was $12,500 instead and looked for the wrong amount. After one full week, they said they have it.

    Then the L.A. said they didn't find it, then they did.

    Now they left it off the HUD-1, when questioned, they said "who has the EMD? Your attorney or us?" Grrrrrr

    I asked about the rekey fee, because I don't know when they will rekey. I will need to do a walk through first, and all along - initial visit, second visit, verify water and electric being ON, inspection, survey, etc etc etc was all done by the L.A. giving me lock box code. I never met her face to face. I don't know how many people she gave the code to. Anyone could walk up and haul away whatever is in the house.

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    One more question to those familiar with FNMA.

    The title co has added:

    SETTLEMENT OR CLOSING FEE

    ABSTRACT OR TITLE SEARCH

    TAX & LIEN SEARCH

    a total of about $800 to the buyer's column to pay.

    There is nothing (that I could find or my attorney could find) in their REO addendum that says I should pay for these items.

    However in my state contract with is part of the contract it clearly states: "Seller will select the title agent and closing agent and will pay for the owner's title policy, title search, including tax and lien search; and all other fees charged by title agent and closing agent".

    When we challenged them they said the buyers are to pay for this per contract.

    We showed them these lines and asked them to show us the lines saying buyer should pay. They didn't answer.

    My attorney advised I should consider paying instead of rocking the deal for $800 because Fannie Mae is so messed up and the agent/title co are so incompetent it may just turn this into a tailspin.

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    12y

    @Sam Leon On my Fannie closings I'm charged a settlement fee (as is the seller) by the title company (usually $250-450), doc stamps/recording fee (Fannie/Freddie do not pay doc stamps) and a rekey fee (which is in their addendum). Lien/title search has always been on the seller's side. At best you could probably get the $150 or so that a lien search would cost moved to the seller's side.

    My experience with the rekey is any house on their master key the buyer must pay for a rekey. This is in their addendum (somewhere in the 20 pages). The rekey has always happened within a few days before closing generally at a price of around $100 for a couple locks (so about $20 in materials, they always use the cheap Home Depot brand ones). They generally put the new keys into the existing lockbox.

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    On FNMA purchases, I always plan for the transaction being difficult and budget for paying all closing costs beside commissions. Since I am a broker, the commission offsets the closing costs. I believe the online bidding states all costs will be paid by buyer, however their addendum and the Texas real estate contract from me states they pay for the title policy

    I am usually pleased at closing because:

    -FNMA is usually charged for the title policy

    -The agent forgets to have the property re-keyed and I get my fee back

    -They forget to put the 90-day restriction to re-sell the property in the Deed

    After closing, I go have several beers and wonder how a government agency ever gets anything done !

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:
    After closing, I go have several beers and wonder how a government agency ever gets anything done !

    LOL. I definitely need a six pack after this.

    It's not even so much the government agency being disorganized. This goes way beyond their left hand not knowing what the right hand doing. The listing agent and the title company are both incompetent, although not incompetent enough to not forget to charge me for the property!

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    The saga continues...

    I still have not had the beers I planned for.

    Closing was supposed to be yesterday. But didn't happen because "WE didn't OK the HUD the day prior". We didn't OK it because there were a number of errors in it, like they completely left of my EMD in my credit column!

    So it has been delayed till today. I got the closing package yesterday afternoon to sign a bunch of things but still no deed and title policy for my attorney to review.

    Nonetheless, I followed instructions and signed everything and emailed back this morning at 8am. Then went to the bank and wired them the balance at 10am.

    They are supposed to confirm receipt and get things executed. Silence.

    I went by the property this morning, they haven't yet rekeyed like they were supposed to. I paid $150 for it.

    I did notice water is off. So they shut off the water. I called the city and inquire about setting up a new service, they say "Hmmm...there is an outstanding balance of $859.37, you should have them take care of it, because after 60 days that balance will transfer over to your account". I haven't called the power company yet to see what the balance is over there.

    I don't have the deed yet, and so I can't start water service anyways since they need the deed as proof of ownership.

    Looks like this will drag on for a few more days. I can't do anything until they officially release the keys to me.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y

    Yep, "their" title co./policy probably has an exception for any unrecorded liens, and they didn't do a city lien search.

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    The water bill and rekey should be handled by the agent if the bill is from the FNMA period. I would pursue with the agent and the agents broker as my understanding is that they handle these tasks

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:
    Yep, "their" title co./policy probably has an exception for any unrecorded liens, and they didn't do a city lien search.

    I haven't seen their final title policy yet, nor the deed.

    After I signed the closing package, wired the money, it has been nothing but silence.

    My attorney is fuming, even more so than I am LOL.

    On the poorly marked up title commitment letter which we saw that were dotted with errors, they have this language: "Any policy we issue will have the following exceptions unless they are taken care of to our satisfaction: Any lien provided by County ordinance or by Chapter 159, Florida Statutes, in favor of any City, Town Village, or Port Authority, for unpaid service charges by any water systems, sewer systems, or gas systems serving the land described herein; and any liens for waste fees in favor of any County or Municipality."

    However they circled it with a sharpie and wrote "deleted". So I assume it's not an exception.

    I guess a question is, if this drags on for days, is there a point where me the Buyer can say OK forget it deal is off give me my money back? Or they can just take their time?

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 170 votes
    12y

    My experience with FNMA was great. It went off without a hitch. Your first problem was when the person you contacted was too lazy to come open the property. That should have sent your spidey sense tingling.

    It just comes back to why do we even have realtors. I realize we need to find jobs for folks who dont go to college or do go to college and cannot find jobs but this is one profession I cannot wait to go away. In todays age its just another wasted step. 5-7% for someone to lock and unlock the doors....no thanks.

    Realtors I can feel your glare....sorry.....no not really

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jay C.:
    My experience with FNMA was great. It went off without a hitch. Your first problem was when the person you contacted was too lazy to come open the property. That should have sent your spidey sense tingling.

    It did sent my spidey sense tingling. However you must not be familiar with South Florida the real estate fraud capitol of the country...there are so many agents and realtors doing shady stuff I sort of consider "lazy" the least of all evils.

    I am going to go get a beer now. No still nothing from them, no key release. They are still in some holding pattern, for what I don't know. No executed HUD and warranty deed yet and no return email and calls to my attorney.

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y

    FINALLY, the transaction was closed yesterday.

    That was a painful process.

    Now, they took out the sign up front, but left the lock boxes. Are those my lock boxes now?

    One of them is a conventional 4 digit combination one.

    The other is a Supra. I can't open it. What do I do with it?

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y

    The agent should be around for the Supra, as they costs more than $100.

    At some point, an angle grinder or die grinder with a cut off wheel works though :)

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