Property Analysis in Sarasota, FL

Property Analysis in Sarasota, FL

Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes

I'm 27 and live in Philadelphia, PA. I've been wanting and planning to begin my REI career by house hacking in the Tampa area, so I've been saving money for a down payment and researching the market and area.


However, an opportunity came up for a property in my hometown of Sarasota, FL. It's a 1/1 condo in a desirable area with a Zillow estimated rent of $1450. Asking price is 125k, but I may be able to get it a little lower as the current owners are family friends.

After running it through a calculator, it appears the deal would cash flow at $236/month and have an 12.6% CoC and 6.8% Cap rate.

As a little more background for me, I have good credit at 760+, and some money saved up, but not enough for a 15% down payment. Would likely have to borrow from family/friends or use credit to make up the difference.

I'm very serious about this opportunity and don't want to be paralyzed by fear/uncertainty.

Does this deal seem worth postponing house hacking plans?

Does anyone know of down payment assistant programs for investment properties?

Thanks,

Andrew

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Carrollton, TX · Member since 2015 · 415 posts · 371 votes
6y

A search of "cap rate" right here on BP will show the misconceptions surrounding cap rate.

IMO, context is important here. When someone mentions "cap rate" in a single family rental investment scenario, there would be at least one post stating that cap rate is totally irrelevant. There are two contexts where "cap rate" is frequently thrown in - one is "performance" and the other is "valuation". When cap rate is used as a performance metric (i.e. NOI/Cost), I don't know about you but I see the use and the relevance in comparing rental house A vs. rental house B. If house A has a higher cap rate then house B, then house A performs better than house B. Stated another way, house A produces more NOI for a given Cost (i.e. more efficient in squeezing NOI out of Cost). Now, within the context of "valuation" then YES... cap rate is irrelevant in rental houses because rental houses are valued using recently sold comparable houses where some of them are not even rental houses (i.e. they do not even generate NOI).

To say that "cap rate" is totally irrelevant in SFR's is ignoring the fact that some (actually way too MANY) investors use the term cap rate within the "performance" context.

Now if we could have a different name for "cap rate" as it is used within the "performance" context... oh let's say "operating yield"?? Maybe this will help eliminate all these misconceptions?? After all the formula of Operating Yield is NOI/Cost... (hmm, where have I seen THAT before?)

Cheers... Immanuel

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  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    FYI - There is no such thing as a cap rate for under 5 units. It's not relevant at all. I lived in Sarasota for 7 years and have a team on the ground there. The numbers are ok, what area is it in? You have to decide what you will get more value out of - long-distance investment with minimal cash flow and appreciation (1/1 condos just aren't going to go up that much, nor will your rent) and limited learning experience or house hack yourself and learn everything. And for a first time investment, living in Philly and buying in FL, you can do better deal than Sarasota at the price point you are looking at. You do have a leg up though if you have family and friends there for less pct paid for management. I'd house hack locally and learn way more. The deal isn't that great to hold off on doing the whole thing yourself.

  • Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    Gotcha, thank you for the reply! Good to know about the Cap rate, I hadn't heard that before.

    It's very close to the north bridge to go to Siesta Key. Granada is the neighborhood and it's in walking distance to the Publix and shopping mall on 41/Bee Ridge. My immediate family does live there, and my brother has actually lived in this condo the last 2 years. My father is a plumber, although he is getting quite old these days lol. 

  • Realtor · Tampa Bay · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    if you are buying a townhome you should be to do a lower downpayment than 15%. Ask your brother if he like living there, why he likes living there. It is always good to think from a Renter's perspective! Also, remember to look into the association its in, HOA fees and special assessments can be killer

  • Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    Hey Adam,

    I'm definitely still green in term of loans. Wasn't sure I'd be able to secure a loan with less than 15% down. I've stayed at the condo when in town, and it's updated and would come semi-furnished. There is a $300 HOA/utilities fee, but that is factored in to my numbers above.

  • Rental Property Investor · Bradenton/Sarasota · Member since 2018 · 13 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    Like Adam said, the association can make or break this. I have looked at many condos/townhouses that looked promising only to scrap the deal because of the association fees, quality or rules. 

  • Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    6y

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  • Real Estate Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    I would double check those rent numbers. That seems awful high for a 1/1 condo. Check with local property managers for accurate numbers (not Zillow). Remember rents can fluctuate. I've seen some pretty wild swings in my 18 years here. Can you survive these?

    I love that you want to get started. The responses here are awesome! Do not be a motivated buyer.

  • Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    I definitely was skeptical of the $1450 number at first. After looking at the rents offered in surrounding areas, it seemed in the ballpark, if not just a little high.

    If any property managers see this, connect with me!

  • Investor · Severna Park, MD · Member since 2016 · 32 posts · 39 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Greene:

    FYI - There is no such thing as a cap rate for under 5 units. It's not relevant at all.

    Why is there no such thing as a cap rate for under 5 units? I have a portfolio of SF units. I look at cap rate and also comps to analyze my deals.

  • Rental Property Investor · Elkhart, IN · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 52 votes
    6y

    @Andrew Connor

    I started out with a house hack before I knew what it was. It was one of the best business moves I have made in my life. In my mind anytime you can get someone else to pay your mortgage that's a win. That said, when you start out investing you need to determine what your investment parameters are. I am a huge proponent of utilizing the cash on cash metric as I believe it is the truest barometer of a real return. That said if you are confident in the analysis you put together and 12%+ CoC meets your predetermined investment parameters, then I suggest you do that deal, if it doesn't, then you walk. Without already having identified your potential house hack you don't know if your return will better with that option. A bird in the hand...

  • Rental Property Investor · Elkhart, IN · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 52 votes
    6y

    @Raju V.

    5 units and above are considered to be commercial properties, while 4 units and below are not. Commercial properties are evaluated by net operating income when compared to property value as a way to create comparables as there are rarely similar buildings/properties while SFH and multi family properties 4 units and less use like properties for comps as there are generally an abundance of like properties. That is the purpose behind cap rates and why they are generally only utilized on 5+ units. Hopefully this was helpful.

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Garrett Cannizzo thank you for giving the longer explanation that I did not. It's shocking to me how many people use cap rate as something of value for small MF properties and SF homes. It's not valid. Same reason that people don't understand that commercial appraisals use current rents and vacancies in the appraisal whereas a multi-family appraisal does not change whether well-rented or vacant.

  • Carrollton, TX · Member since 2015 · 415 posts · 371 votes
    6y

    A search of "cap rate" right here on BP will show the misconceptions surrounding cap rate.

    IMO, context is important here. When someone mentions "cap rate" in a single family rental investment scenario, there would be at least one post stating that cap rate is totally irrelevant. There are two contexts where "cap rate" is frequently thrown in - one is "performance" and the other is "valuation". When cap rate is used as a performance metric (i.e. NOI/Cost), I don't know about you but I see the use and the relevance in comparing rental house A vs. rental house B. If house A has a higher cap rate then house B, then house A performs better than house B. Stated another way, house A produces more NOI for a given Cost (i.e. more efficient in squeezing NOI out of Cost). Now, within the context of "valuation" then YES... cap rate is irrelevant in rental houses because rental houses are valued using recently sold comparable houses where some of them are not even rental houses (i.e. they do not even generate NOI).

    To say that "cap rate" is totally irrelevant in SFR's is ignoring the fact that some (actually way too MANY) investors use the term cap rate within the "performance" context.

    Now if we could have a different name for "cap rate" as it is used within the "performance" context... oh let's say "operating yield"?? Maybe this will help eliminate all these misconceptions?? After all the formula of Operating Yield is NOI/Cost... (hmm, where have I seen THAT before?)

    Cheers... Immanuel

  • Specialist · NY · Member since 2016 · 82 posts · 60 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Immanuel Sibero:

    A search of "cap rate" right here on BP will show the misconceptions surrounding cap rate.

    IMO, context is important here. When someone mentions "cap rate" in a single family rental investment scenario, there would be at least one post stating that cap rate is totally irrelevant. There are two contexts where "cap rate" is frequently thrown in - one is "performance" and the other is "valuation". When cap rate is used as a performance metric (i.e. NOI/Cost), I don't know about you but I see the use and the relevance in comparing rental house A vs. rental house B. If house A has a higher cap rate then house B, then house A performs better than house B. Stated another way, house A produces more NOI for a given Cost (i.e. more efficient in squeezing NOI out of Cost). Now, within the context of "valuation" then YES... cap rate is irrelevant in rental houses because rental houses are valued using recently sold comparable houses where some of them are not even rental houses (i.e. they do not even generate NOI).

    To say that "cap rate" is totally irrelevant in SFR's is ignoring the fact that some (actually way too MANY) investors use the term cap rate within the "performance" context.

    Now if we could have a different name for "cap rate" as it is used within the "performance" context... oh let's say "operating yield"?? Maybe this will help eliminate all these misconceptions?? After all the formula of Operating Yield is NOI/Cost... (hmm, where have I seen THAT before?)

    Cheers... Immanuel

    In regards to the valuation aspect, you're correct. Generally no bank will or Appraiser will value a single-family home based on a cap rate. However, I have seen 3-4 unit buildings secured by a commercial mortgage use cap rates or the Income Approach in their analysis. No too much with 2-family homes. This is due the behavior of a typical market participant for the property. Most single family homes are purchased by, well families, during their shopping they will compare it to the price of other homes. You generally won't hear a couple discussing a Home and listings it's postive attributes such as nice pool, big backyard, room for a man cave and a solid cap rate. Which would only be applicable in a rental fallback scenario. In other words if the couple wanted to rent it out. Most 2-4 family valuations will be based more on the GRM or gross rent multiplier method. Where as, the subjects annual or monthly rent roll is multiplied by a number, generally market extracted, and the have and Income Approach. Some older or wiser investors still use this method as it can be very simple. This is similar to a 2% rule however more market specific.

    In terms of you're own valuation. I always equated the cap rate to a Cash Flow Rate. In fact that's the best definition I've heard for a cap rate to date. If I purchase a property for $100,000 and get an NOI of $10,000, my cash flow rate is 10%. I would assume most investors are looking at their cash-on-cash return when analyzing SFR and other RE investments rather then cap rates. If your require at 15% cash-on-cash return, that's the number you need to make the deal work. I would believe to make more sense when explaining and/or analyzing the deal to the BP community.

    For example, if I post up and say, this single-family Home has a 8% cap rate. What do you all think vs. my cash-on-cash return is 15% on this deal after typical financing, is that a good return for this asset. It maybe a better measure of performance for smaller investment properties. 

    Just my two cents on the matter. 

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