Realtor let me down...shocker

Realtor let me down...shocker

Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 2 votes

I have purchased 4 properties that I rent out and have been OBSESSED with BiggerPockets podcasts, forums, audiobooks, and have non-stop been studying investing and trying to learn and become as knowledgeable as possible. I feel extremely confident at this point after extensive research and my experience so far. 

I went to buy another home, and used a friend that is a realtor after my other realtor had no time to show properties and I was on a timeline. Everything was fine, except for the fact I found every single property I wanted to see and ran my numbers. She did no work besides show me the properties once I found them and requested to see them.

I found a foreclosure near my current location on hudstore. My realtor had never done a HUD property, so I was very worried. She did not even know you needed a number to place an offer. She told me she didn't need up but ended up saying I was right after speaking with her broker, who has their number...red flag #1

Then she told me there were multiple bids on the property and that I needed to place an offer over asking. They asked $260 and we bid $270 and had our offer accepted. I immediately thought "how would she know there are other offers. It's HUD, not like a regular property where the realtor will tell you. $10k over asking, what was I thinking?...red flag #2

Then I did MY RESEARCH (which is her job, especially since it's her first HUD experience she should have run everything by her broker and made sure to know what she was doing) and found out that HUD will pay up to 5% of closing costs. I let her know and she said that's not true, but still emailed the agent about it....red flag #3

I followed up asking if she had heard from the agent. She told me to send her where I read that information so I sent it over. She then let me know that we would have had to request the 5% towards closing with our offer. I SAID, "SO YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT NOW WE HAVE TO PAY ALL CLOSING COSTS WHEN THEY WOULD HAVE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T REQUEST IT?!?!" Her response was yes.

I told her that was over $12k!!! She responded, "yeah HUD and the government suck. Sorry"

We then got into it back and forth (professionally) and I asked how she was going to fix the situation. She blamed me and HUD and that how was she supposed to know that.

Finally, I asked to back out of the deal and she said we couldn't, even though I never signed an executed contract. 

I took a screen shot of the As-Is contract that I did sign, which stated we had 9 days during the inspection period to back out, and her response was "I don't need a screen shot. I know what an As-Is contract says, but HUD is different" Um, what?! I said, "It's in the HUD As-Is Contract what are you talking about?"

Finally, she said they had sent an email saying if we didn't sign the contract by tomorrow morning I would lose my escrow. I had to tell her their email isn't binding and means nothing. It's not signed or agreed and then finally she contacted them and they said we could cancel so she is drawing up the paperwork.

So I lost a great deal because my realtor literally knew less than me and did not protect me. 

Once the property is relisted, can I put in another offer with a new realtor (my friend that does title says that won't fly) Or could I have someone else purchase it for me? 

Any advice, comments, suggestions for the future?

Thanks for listening!

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Greg H.Pro Member
Moderator
Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y

Lots to digest here and I hope you do not take it personally as your narrative is not accurate:

I will take them in order:

The Broker has the NAID #

-You did not say whether you were purchasing as an investor or as an owner occupant so I am going to assume investor and I can correct later if not

-Listing agent has NO idea how many bids are placed nor the amount of the bids until one is accepted

-Offers are NOT accepted by the agent nor processed by them.  Only throught HUdhomestore.  If accepted, again assuming investor bid, your agent would receive an acceptance email mid morning the next business day

-HUD pays ZERO closing costs for investor bids(the 5% went away close to a decade ago) They will pay 3% for an owner occupant

-You can back out of the deal up to the point the docusign contract is accepted by HUD. 100% of your EM until then and non refundable in most situations after that. No paperwork is needed as your agent can just notify the Asset Manager(actually doing nothing achieves the same result)

-15 day inspection period for investors but they will not return your EM nor negotiate repairs

-Yes you can place a new bid with a different or the same agent as it matters none to HUD

The summary is both of y'all are not knowledgeable with the process and moving forward only place bids with an experienced HUD agents AND only select an experienced title company/Attorney

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    6y

    Pragmatic suggestion for this particular property: get her broker on the horn, get a referral from her/him to another agent under that broker. That'll let you sidestep the "procuring cause" issues (where you might otherwise owe a Realtor a commission out of pocket), the broker wants you to be happy and will make it all right with the first Realtor internally.

    Big picture, you did the "throw a rock, use the first Realtor it hits" strategy. That is, of course, bound to produce random and erratic results.

  • Specialist · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2012 · 865 posts · 351 votes
    6y

    You learned a lot it seems.:) It wasn’t a complete waste. That’s not the last house you will be able to bid on and yes the realtor did let you down. Your shocked I’m not. 

    Happy new year 🎆 

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    @Aimee Tarte I'm with Chris, get her broker on the phone as she dropped the ball multiple times. The fact that this is her first HUD purchase is one thing-we all start somewhere, but more concerning is she didn't ask or research the purchase to learn how to do it.

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Lots to digest here and I hope you do not take it personally as your narrative is not accurate:

    I will take them in order:

    The Broker has the NAID #

    -You did not say whether you were purchasing as an investor or as an owner occupant so I am going to assume investor and I can correct later if not

    -Listing agent has NO idea how many bids are placed nor the amount of the bids until one is accepted

    -Offers are NOT accepted by the agent nor processed by them.  Only throught HUdhomestore.  If accepted, again assuming investor bid, your agent would receive an acceptance email mid morning the next business day

    -HUD pays ZERO closing costs for investor bids(the 5% went away close to a decade ago) They will pay 3% for an owner occupant

    -You can back out of the deal up to the point the docusign contract is accepted by HUD. 100% of your EM until then and non refundable in most situations after that. No paperwork is needed as your agent can just notify the Asset Manager(actually doing nothing achieves the same result)

    -15 day inspection period for investors but they will not return your EM nor negotiate repairs

    -Yes you can place a new bid with a different or the same agent as it matters none to HUD

    The summary is both of y'all are not knowledgeable with the process and moving forward only place bids with an experienced HUD agents AND only select an experienced title company/Attorney

  • Rental Property Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2019 · 18 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Greg H. Thank you for taking the time to leave a response. 

    I am an investor, but I was buying this as an owner occupant in order to be able to purchase it. That way I did my research and knew that had would pay up to 5% of the closing costs.

    I found the property myself and asked her to show it to me. She is the one that said that she did not need a NAID number, and I had to send her a screenshot that said that she did did it and that is when she reached out to her broker and found out that she did and would use theirs.

    I didn’t want to pay over asking price, but my realtor told me there were other bids, which I did respond to her how do you know that? But she said she could see, which I knew she couldn’t but was trusting her.

    She assured me that her broker would be part of the deal in all aspects and would help. 

    I had to send her a screenshot of the as is contract that we signed, since we didn’t have an executed contract, in order to get her to do the cancellation because she was saying that we couldn’t do it at all.

    So basically if I didn’t know anything, I would have had to go through with the deal and got stuck with paying the 5% closing costs which totaled over $12,000 just because of an oversight. I chose to cancel the deal instead and will re-bid as soon as it is re-posted since you did say there are no legal repercussions for that. I will also look into it further to make sure it’s not different.


  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Aimee Tarte Stick with your original realtor and if they can't show you a home at a particular time because of your timeline see if they can have someone else from their office show you. Sounds like you are experienced enough to walk the property and come up with an offer number, but where the ball was dropped was with the agents lack of experience with HUD offer submission.

    Something else to consider in a situation like this is to just use the listing agent as your agent so at least you know the offer is getting submitted properly. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 133 votes
    6y

    @Aimee Tarte

    If your looking at HUD homes you really want to be working with an agent that is familiar with the HUD process. Same thing with foreclosures. As far as finding properties on the MLS, consider yourself lucky that the original agent did much of the legwork for you in bringing you properties. I would say many of the times a realtor will set up guest access to MLS listings for an investor so they can find their own. Mainly bc agents don't as much make money from investment deals like retail. No one knows your criteria better than yourself so you may want to start finding your own deals and use the agent for reassurance.

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    6y

    Much of the information you posted is not correct. 5%, wrong, multiple offers, most of the reo systems send out an automated email when that happens, in many states closing costs on reos are actually higher as transfer taxes arnt shared.

    So with many of your incorrect assumptions, its hard to tell if the things you agent said that are incorrect were actually told to you or if its coming through filtered through.

    In the future however, consider using an agent thays good with lots of experience instead of a buddy.

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Aimee Tarte:

    @Greg H. Thank you for taking the time to leave a response. 

    I am an investor, but I was buying this as an owner occupant in order to be able to purchase it. That way I did my research and knew that had would pay up to 5% of the closing costs.

    I found the property myself and asked her to show it to me. She is the one that said that she did not need a NAID number, and I had to send her a screenshot that said that she did did it and that is when she reached out to her broker and found out that she did and would use theirs.

    I didn’t want to pay over asking price, but my realtor told me there were other bids, which I did respond to her how do you know that? But she said she could see, which I knew she couldn’t but was trusting her.

    She assured me that her broker would be part of the deal in all aspects and would help. 

    I had to send her a screenshot of the as is contract that we signed, since we didn’t have an executed contract, in order to get her to do the cancellation because she was saying that we couldn’t do it at all.

    So basically if I didn’t know anything, I would have had to go through with the deal and got stuck with paying the 5% closing costs which totaled over $12,000 just because of an oversight. I chose to cancel the deal instead and will re-bid as soon as it is re-posted since you did say there are no legal repercussions for that. I will also look into it further to make sure it’s not different.


    HUD only pays up to 3% closing costs for owner occupants(used to pay 5% but that was at least 5 years ago)

    You indicate you are an investor but you are going to purchase as an owner occupant? Are you planning on living in the property for 12 months? You will sign a document under penalty that this is the case. Are you getting an owner occupant loan? If not, HUD will not allow the purchase to go through

    Since you passed during the owner occupant period, HUD may contact the backup bidder if their bid was acceptable before going back on the market

    Your agent or the listing agent has NO knowledge of the number of bids or the amount of the bids

    Keep in mind, HUD awards bids based on the highest net to HUD. That is the bid amount minus commissions and closing costs requested(if any). Another bidder bids $1 more, they win

    Yes you can rebid if the property comes back on the market as there is no penalty for passing.  I have actually passed on a particular property more than once, forfeited my earnest money on that same property twice due to not closing and eventually purchased that same property

    Watch Hudhomestore every day as there will not be any notice once the property comes back on the market.  Often this happens on Saturday

  • Contractor · Grand Marais, MN · Member since 2016 · 249 posts · 417 votes
    6y

    sounds like it was handled poorly, by someone that didn't really know what was going on. I fully understand, as I despise working with incompetent people that are supposed to be making my life easier! However, the fault is yours.  No disrespect, but if your agent didn't have time for you, it isn't really your agent. If you knew you were going into a specialized transaction, you need an agent that understands the transaction.  Did you ask about their experience? Some of the frustration in this situation will evaporate once you decide it is not out of your control. Use the remaining frustration to learn from. It's a big deal today, not in 30 years.  

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Few things.  

    1. There are lots of specialties within brokerage. For agents who never dealt with HUD properties, there will be a learning curve. Your agent wasn't up to speed. @Greg H. sounds like he knows what he is talking about. I've bought properties through HUD before and it was somewhat confusing.

    2. In previous times, the agent had access to proprietary knowledge about listings. Today, that has changed due to technology. Consumers can go on to Zillow and pull up all the listings from the MLS (unless agent opts out of syncing the property). Most of the REO listings will probably make it to Zillow.

    So your complaint about finding your own properties is actually becoming a more normal process.  Availability of information is going to be one of the biggest changes for the brokerage community in the next ten years.  It's amplifying.

    3.  You can back out of most contracts if you find surprises like paying both sides of closings costs.  

    4. Even if you lose this deal, there will be others. Shop around for an agent that you like, communicates well and has experience with HUD transactions.

  • Real Estate Agent · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 113 posts · 71 votes
    6y

    I agree with a lot already said here. There were some misconceptions. I am a bit concerned about the investor/occupant comment. I hope you mean you are going to reside there but look at the purchase as an investment. HUD has a clear distinction and if your intent is to use the property as a primary residence for a period longer than a year then you are not an investor to HUD. If your mortgage is for a rental or second home that will be very problematic. Lastly, an agent who has dealt with HUD is valuable in this situation but we all gotta start somewhere right? HUD is its own animal and once you learn the systems, rules, and lexicon it can be some of the easiest transactions. Buyers, especially investors have to do their due diligence before placing a bid. HUD offers no closing assistance(to investors), repairs, renegotiation, or concessions. I still find HUDmostore a great place to find properties I have purchased a few my self from there and look every day.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    @Greg H. is an expert at HUD enough said on that subject.

    realtors don't find homes for buyers much anymore all buyers find them on line that's how the business is handled we all get auto feeds for markets we are interested in then e mail our agent when something looks interesting.

    Like yesterday I got an auto feed of a new lot listing in Charleston contacted my agent had offer in within 30 minutes of the property hitting MLS.. that's how its done these days.

    Agents might have pocket listings or off market that they procure.. but not stuff that is listed on the internet.. 

    However it does sound like this agent had not done one of these before and you were both going through the learning curve.

  • Real Estate Agent · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 113 posts · 71 votes
    6y

    @Brian Ploszay Great info, however, I don't fully agree with point 3. I may have misunderstood, but to clarify for others who may read this. There shouldn't surprises in the terms of the contract and HUD will keep your EMD if you back out.

    As an agent, I will fight like hell for you to get it back but against HUD I will likely lose. Lastly to help others reading. HUD only gives 45 days for investors to close. HUD MAY grant an extension but will cost you up to $375 (most transactions have this amount) per 15-day extension. They only do 15-day extensions.

  • Investor · California, CA · Member since 2016 · 117 posts · 26 votes
    6y

    Barrier of entry is very low for Realtors, when compared to other professions, in my state... maybe the lowest of professions especially when considering the amount of capital investment they are influencing. Their are good ones and bad ones, it’s as simple as that. As mentioned above.. don’t just hire a buddy or randomly pick. Their is a enormous difference between a good realtor and a bad realtor. And the bad ones are no where near qualified to represent an investor...

    And yes, we all see all the listings online. So the realtors are mainly offering 2 services - #1 bringing off market deals (most don’t even consider this part of being a realtor) and #2 representing you through the negotiations, due diligence and closing process.

  • Investor · Member since 2019 · 17 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    I've bought or sold about 25 times- not a lot, but some experience.  One thing I have learned is that your agent makes all the difference.  Work with the agent as a buyers agent, that's basic. Beyond that, check out the agent. Many agents are involved in 0-3 deals per year. This is not a full time agent. You want a real agent who works at it every day and who has lots of experience. 

    Your agent should be familiar with the type of property you are buying or selling.  Even if it is your own home, this is a business deal. Check reviews online. Preferably interview 3 agents before deciding on one.  Be aware that some agents are better at selling and some are better as buyer's agents. 

    This is more on agents than on your deal, but a good agent would have helped you more and kept you out of trouble. 

    I have extensive investing experience outside of real estate, and the first rule is to drop anyone or anything that is not working, even if it costs you some money. Just get out. Minimizing losses is a big part of success. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2016 · 518 posts · 283 votes
    6y

    I wish we had HUD properties and REO's here in my area. Banks hardly every take anything to auction and some properties just linger in preforclosure for years :(

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