Growth Equity Group - How 170+ investors were scammed

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Growth Equity Group - How 170+ investors were scammed

Andrey Y.
Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

In 2014-2015, more than 170 investors purchased 2 and 3 bedroom condo units from Growth Equity Group. This company specializes in investment properties in a self-directed IRA. More than 85% of their sales are bought in this fashion.

Business was solicited mainly at investment conferences (Las Vegas a popular site), and some here at BP. I was one of those people who fell for their marketing.

I was sold a condo in a neighborhood in Virginia (specific details to be disclosed later). They sold me the condo for almost $90K. The property value was however, at best, $65K. They came with sweet talk, a personable friendly nature, like a predator (although I didn't know it at the time.) They only allowed an appraisal to be performed through them. One can see why, a legitimate appraiser operating legally would not appraise these condos for what they were selling for.

Growth Equity Group sold units to more than 170+ investors. 3BRs went for $96K, 2BR for $86K. Of course, they also used an "in house" lender specializing in non-recourse loans. They wouldn't allow you to use your own lender. It sounds fishy looking back at it, but not when they present it in a such a welcoming and favorable way. The rate would be 5%, which would balloon to 9% in 4 years!

I see three main issues with what transpired:

1. Sales. Growth Equity Group knowingly sold condos which were valued at $60-65K, for $85K-100K. They did this with open eyes and a smile. They even rushed me to sign on the dotted line.

2. The Appraisal process. Appraisers in the past have been fined and jailed for falsifying numbers, for elevating the appraisal amount. If the appraiser is on the payroll of the company who is selling you a property, or they are getting business or money from the company who is selling you the property, this is a major conflict of interest.

3. Financing. Industry standard for a non-resource loan is - during the balloon period, the interest rate cannot go up more than 0.5% per year or more than 2% total, no matter the interest rate environment. Growth Equity Group again used a lender that they were "working with" and did not let you use your own lender. Their loans carried an interest rate of 5%, which immediately jumps to 9% at the 4 year mark.

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Lauren B.
Asheville, NC · Member since 2017 · 170 posts · 242 votes
7y

@Andrey Y.

I’m so sorry this happened to you.

I would comment further but I got stuck at the part where you refer to people in their 50’s as elderly.

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  • Doug Pintarch
    Rental Property Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2018 · 369 posts · 406 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tom V.:

    Let me get these details straight: 

    A medical resident attends an investment conference in Las Vegas, and buys a condo he has never seen.

    He uses his paltry Self-Directed IRA money (subject to all of the restrictions on co-mingling funds, withdrawal penalties) and borrows in a loan structure that is non-recourse (necessary for his IRA funding use) with a 5% interest rate for 5 years.

    The property cash flows for years, but after a while his reliable tenant moves out, and (lo and behold!) it is expensive to turn over the apartment and he has little control working from the other side of the world!  The funky little non-recourse loan is going to re-set from 5% to 9%  (Heaven forbid!) and he feels awfully hurt by the whole process!

    First, I will hazard a guess that you were too young to have lost any money in the 2008 crash. You were probably in school, and everything you have ever known about investing is that you buy stuff and it goes up in value. You are in the medical profession, so you are smart. You think you're a bit more savvy than the average doctor even, in financial terms, because you found out about the magic(!) of self-driected IRA's and you have a leg up on everyone else.

    Here are some lessons: 

    1.  If you buy a product and you don't understand it, your risk is your own. 

    2. Not all investments make money. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Concentrating your IRA in one goofy condo across the country is a very specific bet. Why didn't you simply buy mutual funds? Because you're smarter than the sheep who buy mutual funds?

    3. Taking on debt in an IRA account is silly. If you don't have the reserve funds (in the IRA itself) to back up the investment, don't do it.

    4. Plenty of people on Bigger Pockets are trying to sell the self-directed IRA/401K dream. It is a recipe for this kind of concentrated loss situation. DON'T MAKE INVESTMENTS IN PHYSICAL ASSETS WITH YOUR RETIREMENT FUNDS UNLESS IT IS MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE!!!!!!!!

    5.  This too will pass.  Sell your asset if you have to.  Take your loss and move on.  No one sensible is going to have a tremendous amount of sympathy for a doctor in Hawaii who bought a condo on a lark.  "HOW CAN THEY LIVE WITH THEMSELVES?"  People brag here in the forums all the time about big spreads on wholesale deals and other shady practices.  "I just found a willing buyer and a willing seller"  You were the willing buyer here. 

    6.  I welcome your indignant, "Why are you rubbing salt in the wound?"

    Because you deserve the straight talk. 

    Because people who buy tricky real estate with tricky tax angles and are uninformed will have their money taken again and again.  I am so glad this this example made with a young doctor in the prime of his career.  How about taking some ownership for your part in this dubious transaction? 

    You didn't get "scammed" because your loan rate is going from 5% to 9%.  You didn't have a plan for when that would happen. 

    I have lost money in deals.  Anyone who had assets in 2008 lost money (and 2000 for that matter).  People are getting freaked because the stock market is down a little bit.  Big Flipping Deal.   Risk is a real thing.  You lost.  Move on.  

    FANTASTIC PROFITS are never guaranteed, especially when you are putting your training-wheel IRA capital at risk in concentrated deals.

    People have forgotten how to lose money. Accept it, Own it. Move on. 

    I hope I get talked to here just like this if I need to be.

    2Reply
  • Ron Fletcher
    Leclaire, IA · Member since 2016 · 161 posts · 130 votes
    7y

    @Lauren B.

    I felt the same way. I will be 56 in February so I assume I should start looking for a senior care center and line up hospice for good measure.

    1Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

    Were all 170 of these condos in the same area or was this spread out over this company's entire business in multiple markets?

     Hi James. All 170+ condos were in the same area/same condo complex as far as I know. When I speak with a realtor tomorrow I can get more specifics. GEG also operates in Texas, they focus on 2-3 markets at a time. The Newport News / Timberwoods condos were what they sold in a large scale in 2014-2015. Same pricing, their appraiser (I don't think I ever saw or received an appraisal), their lender.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:

    In 2014-2015, more than 170 investors purchased 2 and 3 bedroom condo units from Growth Equity Group. This company specializes in investment properties in a self-directed IRA. More than 85% of their sales are bought in this fashion.

    Business was solicited mainly at investment conferences (Las Vegas a popular site), and some here at BP. I was one of those people who fell for their marketing.

    I was sold a condo in a neighborhood in Virginia (specific details to be disclosed later). They sold me the condo for almost $90K. The property value was however, at best, $65K. They came with sweet talk, a personable friendly nature, like a predator (although I didn't know it at the time.) They only allowed an appraisal to be performed through them. One can see why, a legitimate appraiser operating legally would not appraise these condos for what they were selling for.

    Growth Equity Group sold units to more than 170+ investors. 3BRs went for $96K, 2BR for $86K. Of course, they also used an "in house" lender specializing in non-recourse loans. They wouldn't allow you to use your own lender. It sounds fishy looking back at it, but not when they present it in a such a welcoming and favorable way. The rate would be 5%, which would balloon to 9% in 4 years!

    I see three main issues with what transpired:

    1. Sales. Growth Equity Group knowingly sold condos which were valued at $60-65K, for $85K-100K. They did this with open eyes and a smile. They even rushed me to sign on the dotted line.

    2. The Appraisal process. Appraisers in the past have been fined and jailed for falsifying numbers, for elevating the appraisal amount. If the appraiser is on the payroll of the company who is selling you a property, or they are getting business or money from the company who is selling you the property, this is a major conflict of interest.

    3. Financing. Industry standard for a non-resource loan is - during the balloon period, the interest rate cannot go up more than 0.5% per year or more than 2% total, no matter the interest rate environment. Growth Equity Group again used a lender that they were "working with" and did not let you use your own lender. Their loans carried an interest rate of 5%, which immediately jumps to 9% at the 4 year mark.

     Tagging Andrey. See above queation

    this is one development this company did a few of these and i think they were condo converts..  a lot of these were sold to foreigners as well.  At least other projects in that same basic area.. lots of Isreali's

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  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Chris Seveney. Hit the nail on the head. Very few people on BP equate the return to risk and and look at risk adjusted returns.

    0Reply
  • Michael Ealy
    Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Sorry for your loss @Andrey Y. 

    There is no sense in blaming you for not doing your due diligence on the deal. I commend you for taking responsibility and for sharing this on BP so this company won't scam another investor ever again.

    Having said this, let me see if I can help you by giving you some useful advice.

    You have 2 choices with this property it seems like.

    1.  You keep the property. You refinance with another lender so that you don't end up paying 9% interest. It sounds like you have breakeven equity. If you can hold on to this property long enough, you will still make money with this. However, you need to take control. 

    • Fire the property manager and hire a new one. You are right in saying that $3,000 to turnover a rental house for paint and carpet will NOT cost that much.
    • Refinance as I said above to keep the property cashflowing when it's rented. Also, is it possible to increase the rent?
    • Another option you can do is sell the property on a rent to own basis so that maintenance and repairs (minor) will be the tenant-buyer's responsibility. You can also increase the price since you are selling it 2-4 years from now.

    2. Sell the sucker. By doing this though - you lock in the loss. BUT, you no longer has the hassle.

    If this happened to me when I was starting out, I will choose option 1. BUT, I understand if you decide to sell because you're an out of state investor. If you decide to sell, learn the lessons and move on.

    Hope this helps.

    0Reply
  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    For all you negative Nellys out there, @Andrey Y. has accepted responsibility for his mistake.  

    However it seems like you want to put no responsibility on those who have committed fraudulent appraisals, illegal loans and, i didn't notice it mentioned, but quite possibly securities violations.  The perpetrators belong in jail.

    4Reply
  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ned Carey:

    For all you negative Nellys out there, @Andrey Y. has accepted responsibility for his mistake.  

    However it seems like you want to put no responsibility on those who have committed fraudulent appraisals, illegal loans and, i didn't notice it mentioned, but quite possibly securities violations.  The perpetrators belong in jail.

     You do realize we only are getting one side of the story right?

    Andrey doesn't sound like he's accepting responsibility.

    You are claiming this is fraudulent appraisals, illegal loans, and possible security violations. But this could have all been done legally like how Jay mentioned. There are always ways to structure people into stupid purchases like the OP's. It might not be ethical, but it can be legal.

    So before making accusations, we don't know what is going on from the sponsor's side. The OP even admitted he doesn't even know how his loan is structured. Meaning he didn't even read his mortgage docs. I'm sorry but the OP lack of simple DD makes me skeptical of any claims that he makes. 

    There is so much wrong in the OP's post, it' sad to see that there are investors are out there like this. Sorry to hear OP. I would sell and move on. Stick to what you know best, and next time either do your DD or don't invest. And remember, there are many more sharks out there that will happily take your money and many will use more blatantly illegal means. 

    0Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Michael Ealy:

    Sorry for your loss @Andrey Y. 

    There is no sense in blaming you for not doing your due diligence on the deal. I commend you for taking responsibility and for sharing this on BP so this company won't scam another investor ever again.

    Having said this, let me see if I can help you by giving you some useful advice.

    You have 2 choices with this property it seems like.

    1.  You keep the property. You refinance with another lender so that you don't end up paying 9% interest. It sounds like you have breakeven equity. If you can hold on to this property long enough, you will still make money with this. However, you need to take control. 

    • Fire the property manager and hire a new one. You are right in saying that $3,000 to turnover a rental house for paint and carpet will NOT cost that much.
    • Refinance as I said above to keep the property cashflowing when it's rented. Also, is it possible to increase the rent?
    • Another option you can do is sell the property on a rent to own basis so that maintenance and repairs (minor) will be the tenant-buyer's responsibility. You can also increase the price since you are selling it 2-4 years from now.

    2. Sell the sucker. By doing this though - you lock in the loss. BUT, you no longer has the hassle.

    If this happened to me when I was starting out, I will choose option 1. BUT, I understand if you decide to sell because you're an out of state investor. If you decide to sell, learn the lessons and move on.

    Hope this helps.

    Given that the property is in a self-directed IRA, how feasible do you think doing option #1 for me will be?

    The various issues of refinancing have been touched on in this thread. I have not been able to find a non-recourse lender to do so yet. I hold out hope that its not impossible. I want to avoid having to use one of Growth Equity Group's lenders. I am not interested in being swindled again.

    0Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Syed H.:
    Originally posted by @Ned Carey:

    For all you negative Nellys out there, @Andrey Y. has accepted responsibility for his mistake.  

    However it seems like you want to put no responsibility on those who have committed fraudulent appraisals, illegal loans and, i didn't notice it mentioned, but quite possibly securities violations.  The perpetrators belong in jail.

     You do realize we only are getting one side of the story right?

    Andrey doesn't sound like he's accepting responsibility.

    You are claiming this is fraudulent appraisals, illegal loans, and possible security violations. But this could have all been done legally like how Jay mentioned. There are always ways to structure people into stupid purchases like the OP's. It might not be ethical, but it can be legal.

    So before making accusations, we don't know what is going on from the sponsor's side. The OP even admitted he doesn't even know how his loan is structured. Meaning he didn't even read his mortgage docs. I'm sorry but the OP lack of simple DD makes me skeptical of any claims that he makes. 

    There is so much wrong in the OP's post, it' sad to see that there are investors are out there like this. Sorry to hear OP. I would sell and move on. Stick to what you know best, and next time either do your DD or don't invest. And remember, there are many more sharks out there that will happily take your money and many will use more blatantly illegal means. 

     Much like the other guy with no profile picture, you are making a lot of assumptions and saying several things in your post which are false. No appraisal was provided or shown to me. No amortization table was provided until AFTER contract was signed and property was closed. There were no "mortgage docs". Please read the thread.

    1Reply
  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:

     Much like the other guy with no profile picture, you are making a lot of assumptions and saying several things in your post which are false. No appraisal was provided or shown to me. No amortization table was provided until AFTER contract was signed and property was closed. There were no "mortgage docs". Please read the thread.

    What does my profile picture have anything to do with this? I wasn't attacking you, so don't attack me. Trust me I could have said a lot more. 

    Also if no appraisal was provided or shown to you, no mortgage docs were given (which doesn't make sense since you had to have signed them), and whatever else was missing, why the hell would you ever buy this? It makes absolutely no sense. You are digging yourself into a deeper hole, showing us you had a blatant disregard for any due diligence and showing absolutely zero common sense.

    1Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Timberwoods - Newport News, VA
    2 bed/1 bath - 932 sqft
    Purchase Price $85,900 (Appraised over $97k)
    Down Payment (Non-recourse loan at 5%) $39,500
    Monthly Expenses:
    Rent $840
    Mortgage $249
    Taxes $60
    HOA/Ins $130
    Management $59
    Maintenance $25
    Monthly Net Cash-Flow $317
    Annual Net Cash-Flow $3,804
    Annual Principal Reduction $685
    Estimated Annual Appreciation $3,797
    10 year average 4.42%
    Total 1st year return $8,286 (21%)

    Something quite interesting I've found.

    @Jay Hinrichs @Mike Dymski @Micah Watson @Russell Brazil @Dean Letfus @Huso Akaratovic

    Let me direct your attention to the upper right corner of this chart. "Appraised at over $97K"

    They are making this claim to me before I purchased the property. Now, on what planet did this property appraise for that much? Clearly, they either didn't do a legitimate appraisal (illegal), or falsified the fact that an appraisal was performed, when in fact it was not.

    Where did they come up with that number? Truly sad.

    1Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
    Originally posted by @Micah Watson:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    @Andrey Y. Im doing the math....is the difference between the 9% and 5% rate just about $115 a month? Thats probably not worth doing a refinance due to closing costs. That seems like a perfectly manageable increase in your payment.

    Just wondering. If the home value is too low for selling to make sense in the foreseeable future, why would you choose to loose $115/mo indefinitely? He has said he’s currently cash-flowing. Would he not recover closing costs in 2-4 years?

     Your payment rising $115 doesnt mean you will be losing $115 a month. Lets say it costs $5k to refinance....in order to save say 3%...well thats like $80. Thats 5 years to break even. People do that all the time, but that doesnt seem like its worth it to me.  

    And lets say he was just break even right now, (which hes not, hes cash flow positive), if you cant absorb $100 a month, then yeah you should sell, and you shouldnt invest in real estate at all.  Because theres going to be lots of problems investing in real estate that cause much more costly problems. 

    It sounds dramatic an interest rate jumping from 5% to 9%. My point was well in dollar amounts....this is no big deal at all. Its a perfectly manageable situation in fact. 

     Okay. based on this, the interest rate will go up to 9% starting Feb. 2020 and there will be a balloon July 1, 2021 (have to pay the loan in full or refinance).

    Loan Amount $42,750

    Annual Interest Rate 9.00%

    Amortization Period 300 months

    Balloon Payment After 17 months

    Begin Date 1/1/2020

    Monthly Payment $ 358.76

    Balloon Payment $ 42,377.25

    Total Monthly Payments $ 6,098.92

    Total Amount Paid $ 48,476.17

    Total Interest Paid $ 5,725.74

    Amortization Schedule

    Month Date Payment Interest Principal Balance

    Loan 1/1/2020 - - - $ 42,750.43

    1 2/1/2020 358.76 320.63 38.13 42,712.30

    2 3/1/2020 358.76 320.34 38.42 42,673.88

    3 4/1/2020 358.76 320.05 38.71 42,635.17

    4 5/1/2020 358.76 319.76 39.00 42,596.18

    5 6/1/2020 358.76 319.47 39.29 42,556.89

    6 7/1/2020 358.76 319.18 39.58 42,517.31

    7 8/1/2020 358.76 318.88 39.88 42,477.43

    8 9/1/2020 358.76 318.58 40.18 42,437.25

    9 10/1/2020 358.76 318.28 40.48 42,396.77

    10 11/1/2020 358.76 317.98 40.78 42,355.98

    11 12/1/2020 358.76 317.67 41.09 42,314.89

    12 1/1/2021 358.76 317.36 41.40 42,273.49

    13 2/1/2021 358.76 317.05 41.71 42,231.78

    14 3/1/2021 358.76 316.74 42.02 42,189.76

    15 4/1/2021 358.76 316.42 42.34 42,147.43

    16 5/1/2021 358.76 316.11 42.65 42,104.77

    17 6/1/2021 358.76 315.79 42.97 42,061.80

    18 6/30/2021 42,377.25 315.46 42,061.79 0.01

    Hopefully this provides a bit more info from the maths side. It will be a matter of finding somebody that would lend to me on this property. Only in that case I would begin to consider not selling and taking the big loss.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
    Originally posted by @Micah Watson:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    @Andrey Y. Im doing the math....is the difference between the 9% and 5% rate just about $115 a month? Thats probably not worth doing a refinance due to closing costs. That seems like a perfectly manageable increase in your payment.

    Just wondering. If the home value is too low for selling to make sense in the foreseeable future, why would you choose to loose $115/mo indefinitely? He has said he’s currently cash-flowing. Would he not recover closing costs in 2-4 years?

     Your payment rising $115 doesnt mean you will be losing $115 a month. Lets say it costs $5k to refinance....in order to save say 3%...well thats like $80. Thats 5 years to break even. People do that all the time, but that doesnt seem like its worth it to me.  

    And lets say he was just break even right now, (which hes not, hes cash flow positive), if you cant absorb $100 a month, then yeah you should sell, and you shouldnt invest in real estate at all.  Because theres going to be lots of problems investing in real estate that cause much more costly problems. 

    It sounds dramatic an interest rate jumping from 5% to 9%. My point was well in dollar amounts....this is no big deal at all. Its a perfectly manageable situation in fact. 

     Okay. based on this, the interest rate will go up to 9% starting Feb. 2020 and there will be a balloon July 1, 2021 (have to pay the loan in full or refinance).

    Loan Amount $42,750

    Annual Interest Rate 9.00%

    Amortization Period 300 months

    Balloon Payment After 17 months

    Begin Date 1/1/2020

    Monthly Payment $ 358.76

    Balloon Payment $ 42,377.25

    Total Monthly Payments $ 6,098.92

    Total Amount Paid $ 48,476.17

    Total Interest Paid $ 5,725.74

    Amortization Schedule

    Month Date Payment Interest Principal Balance

    Loan 1/1/2020 - - - $ 42,750.43

    1 2/1/2020 358.76 320.63 38.13 42,712.30

    2 3/1/2020 358.76 320.34 38.42 42,673.88

    3 4/1/2020 358.76 320.05 38.71 42,635.17

    4 5/1/2020 358.76 319.76 39.00 42,596.18

    5 6/1/2020 358.76 319.47 39.29 42,556.89

    6 7/1/2020 358.76 319.18 39.58 42,517.31

    7 8/1/2020 358.76 318.88 39.88 42,477.43

    8 9/1/2020 358.76 318.58 40.18 42,437.25

    9 10/1/2020 358.76 318.28 40.48 42,396.77

    10 11/1/2020 358.76 317.98 40.78 42,355.98

    11 12/1/2020 358.76 317.67 41.09 42,314.89

    12 1/1/2021 358.76 317.36 41.40 42,273.49

    13 2/1/2021 358.76 317.05 41.71 42,231.78

    14 3/1/2021 358.76 316.74 42.02 42,189.76

    15 4/1/2021 358.76 316.42 42.34 42,147.43

    16 5/1/2021 358.76 316.11 42.65 42,104.77

    17 6/1/2021 358.76 315.79 42.97 42,061.80

    18 6/30/2021 42,377.25 315.46 42,061.79 0.01

    Hopefully this provides a bit more info from the maths side. It will be a matter of finding somebody that would lend to me on this property. Only in that case I would begin to consider not selling and taking the big loss.

    who is the actual beneficiary of your note.. who do you pay your payments to.. ??? 

    On the post above again this was very common marketing in turnkey space IE instant equity..  its done all the time especially coming out of the recession..  

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  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Mid Atlantic Holdings LLC

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    0Reply
  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    @Syed H.

    Yes absolutely, and I comment based on what is stated. @Andrey Y. is a well established long time member here. I take what he said at face value and I'm not jumping to conclusions about what "Might" have happened.

    Andrey did not attack you.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Mid Atlantic Holdings LLC

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    OK were they the original beneficiary or did they buy the note ??  and who owns mid Atlantic  what state are they organized in ?

    Does not sound like a pure lender.. sounds like an investment firm.

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  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Mid Atlantic Holdings LLC

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    OK were they the original beneficiary or did they buy the note ??  and who owns mid Atlantic  what state are they organized in ?

    Does not sound like a pure lender.. sounds like an investment firm.

     They were the original and as far as I know, the current.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    mid atlantic  Andrey quick google search Neveda corp with Chicago address I will bet dollars to donuts its the same people they owned the asset and own the debt. ??  unless they are collecting payments and have assigned your note to an investor ( quite common)..

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  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    mid atlantic  Andrey quick google search Neveda corp with Chicago address I will bet dollars to donuts its the same people they owned the asset and own the debt. ??  unless they are collecting payments and have assigned your note to an investor ( quite common)..

     I bet you're right. Growth Equity Group is also based out of Chicago, IL.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Mid Atlantic Holdings LLC

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    OK were they the original beneficiary or did they buy the note ??  and who owns mid Atlantic  what state are they organized in ?

    Does not sound like a pure lender.. sounds like an investment firm.

     They were the original and as far as I know, the current.

     Ok look at your settlement statement see what the name of the company that sold you the asset is. ?  also on the settlement statement will be the name of the lender / beneficiary.. those would be good to know..   

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    0Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Mid Atlantic Holdings LLC

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    OK were they the original beneficiary or did they buy the note ??  and who owns mid Atlantic  what state are they organized in ?

    Does not sound like a pure lender.. sounds like an investment firm.

     They were the original and as far as I know, the current.

     Ok look at your settlement statement see what the name of the company that sold you the asset is. ?  also on the settlement statement will be the name of the lender / beneficiary.. those would be good to know..   

    Growth Equity Group, LLC

    Brett Immel

    Manager

    0Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/growth-equity-group/internet/growth-equity-group-fraud-high-pressure-inflated-numbers-relating-to-return-on-investme-1295566

    0Reply
  • Andrey Y.
    OP
    Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Mid Atlantic Holdings LLC

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    OK were they the original beneficiary or did they buy the note ??  and who owns mid Atlantic  what state are they organized in ?

    Does not sound like a pure lender.. sounds like an investment firm.

     They were the original and as far as I know, the current.

     Ok look at your settlement statement see what the name of the company that sold you the asset is. ?  also on the settlement statement will be the name of the lender / beneficiary.. those would be good to know..   

    Growth Equity Group, LLC

    Brett Immel

    Manager

     Wow. So this is the same Brett Immel from Chicago, IL who has indicted for mortgage fraud in a similar real estate shady business practice. And this man is at it again? On to the next way to cheat others out of their money while smiling right to their face.

    http://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/manipulated-hud-1...

    I will not let this go unnoticed. Why is Mr. Immel still allowed to continue? I cannot believe this.

    1Reply
  • Josh Carlegis
    Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Can you refinance to a lower fixed rate and make it cashflow?

    0Reply
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