$3MM+ Deal Review, First Deal

$3MM+ Deal Review, First Deal

Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes

Hey everyone,

As mentioned previously, I am a finance professional looking at real estate deals on the side, and still looking for my first deal. I have found what I believe to be a good one and have fully negotiated the price with the seller, but it’s a pretty large deal especially for my first. I’ll have a limited experience partner splitting the down payment, and the same property manager will manage the properties pro forma (and on a long term employment agreement). But it is ~80 units across 10 different properties, roughly $3.2mm total deal. I also have substantial seller financing here / limited cash equity at risk.

1. Because it's a proprietary (no brokers or agent) deal, I've had issues finding data for the area. Agents are reluctant to give me any information or spend any time as I already have my own deal and I'm not willing to cut them in for $100k just to get access to MLS. But would be great to look at the cap rates over time in the area or similar. Any ideas on how I can see data here for multi-family and see how volatile/cyclical the local market is?

2. What’s keeping me up at night is primarily where the value of the portfolio can trade. I’m buying the properties at a 9.6% cap rate in a class B-C area. The properties are really in excellent condition and have been very well maintained, with a very long track record of renting out (historical vacancy of 7%). Overall at that cap rate, even after servicing P&I on my commercial loan, it generates $100k per year in free cash flow (including significant allocation to capex reserves).

So I look at that kind of cash flow, after capex reserves and vacancy, I get more comfortable. The valuation would have to fall to a 12% cap rate for the value of all the properties to be at my loan amount/wipe my equity. I just can't see it falling to that level, but have no data (see 2009). $300,000 of NOI and not being able to sell for $2.35mm? Surely someone would scoop that up right? Or maybe it cycles and the price of all 80 units can fall by 35%?

I guess the question is how possible is it to fall to those levels? Should I even care that much at this cash flow level? I can just hold it, and assuming rent prices don’t drastically fall, and generate almost $9k per month in cash flow and pay down almost $100k a year on the loan. Doesn't really matter what the market at that time is valuing those assets. 

How likely are rent prices to fall drastically? Rent would have to fall by $100k on $640k net rent today (incl. vacancy) or 17% across the board at all 80 units for me to go cash flow negative after debt service. I personally feel like that’s extreme and wouldn’t happen, but maybe someone here has seen this before. In my world of private equity and LBOing businesses, these types of events can occur as you’re dealing with an actual business that sometimes is cyclical, has customer concentration, etc. But this is basic multi-family renting. Keep in mind the average monthly rent per unit here is like $700.

3. How difficult is it to replace a property manager? The existing one has a long track record owning/working on these properties, and we'll have a legal agreement in place, but there is some key man risk here. If he dies for example, does anyone have experience hiring new property managers in rural areas? The properties are not in NYC. It could require someone moving to the location.

I’m just feeling like I have an exceptional opportunity here with great financials even modeling a downside case. It’s just hard to foresee how bad a downside case really could be in reality. Some of the greatness in this deal is the scale/size, the ability to generate some serious cash flow and equity in a diversified portfolio, but at the same time if things go south those large numbers become a real problem for me personally. So just trying to find out how bad this could get.

Thank you in advance!

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Irvine, CA · Member since 2016 · 545 posts · 614 votes
7y

@Troy Hebert You don't need to cut a broker in for $100k, hire a consultant or someone on an consulting contract agreement for what you feel the value is, If you think a consultant on the deal is worth $20k, 30k, or 40k, then that's the rate you're offering, If everyone says the rate you're offering is too low, then you'll know, maybe that 100k quote had some value to it. There are many people out there with the knowledge and experience interested in making more money and will take on a consulting project. Just make sure whoever you pic knows what they are doing and not just the cheapest quote.

In a deal of this size there is usually some soft cost built into the deal to cover consultant cost like this. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Troy Hebert Nailing down the value is key.  

    I’d suggest paying for a commercial appraisal as part of your due diligence.

    As a backup, you might consider paying a commercial Realtor for a BPO (broker’s price opinion).

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 294 posts · 104 votes
    7y

    could you give more numbers: what is gross income for these properties, the cost of management company, etc

  • Irvine, CA · Member since 2016 · 545 posts · 614 votes
    7y

    @Troy Hebert You don't need to cut a broker in for $100k, hire a consultant or someone on an consulting contract agreement for what you feel the value is, If you think a consultant on the deal is worth $20k, 30k, or 40k, then that's the rate you're offering, If everyone says the rate you're offering is too low, then you'll know, maybe that 100k quote had some value to it. There are many people out there with the knowledge and experience interested in making more money and will take on a consulting project. Just make sure whoever you pic knows what they are doing and not just the cheapest quote.

    In a deal of this size there is usually some soft cost built into the deal to cover consultant cost like this. 

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Charlie MacPherson:

    @Troy Hebert Nailing down the value is key.  

    I’d suggest paying for a commercial appraisal as part of your due diligence.

    As a backup, you might consider paying a commercial Realtor for a BPO (broker’s price opinion).

     Charlie - thanks for your reply. We do plan to do commercial appraisals on each property. While those are helpful for current market value, which I have a sense of today, I'm not sure they will be helpful for the whatif scenarios, such as a 2008 market downturn. I'm always modeling the downside case scenario.

    How accurate are BPO's? And what would be a reasonable price? I reached out to a couple local agents to see if I can get anyone to help out on this.

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:

    could you give more numbers: what is gross income for these properties, the cost of management company, etc

    Kate - high level, the numbers are as follows. These are all unlevered/capital structure neutral.

    Gross Rent = ~$680k

    Net Rent = $638k

    NOI = $288k (inclusive of $30k of capex reserves)

    This NOI figure is fully baked. It's based off historical financials from QuickBooks. If you'd like a more granular P&L, I'd be happy to PM.

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ray Johnson:

    @Troy Hebert You don't need to cut a broker in for $100k, hire a consultant or someone on an consulting contract agreement for what you feel the value is, If you think a consultant on the deal is worth $20k, 30k, or 40k, then that's the rate you're offering, If everyone says the rate you're offering is too low, then you'll know, maybe that 100k quote had some value to it. There are many people out there with the knowledge and experience interested in making more money and will take on a consulting project. Just make sure whoever you pic knows what they are doing and not just the cheapest quote.

    In a deal of this size there is usually some soft cost built into the deal to cover consultant cost like this. 

    Ray - I reached out to some local folks today and sounds like I have a lead with a potential consultant. Agree on baking it into closing costs, best to have the work done. 

    The $100k figure I referenced was a ~1.5% of total transaction value, which is what I'd expect a buyside broker to charge (maybe even 2%). All I require from an agent is their local/state access to MLS so I could do my financial analysis (rent comps, valuations over time, etc.) However, everyone has been reluctant to help given they wont be getting a transaction fee (nor do they deserve one, did not find the deal or do any of the work)

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 294 posts · 104 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Troy Hebert:
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:

    could you give more numbers: what is gross income for these properties, the cost of management company, etc

    Kate - high level, the npumbers are as follows. These are all unlevered/capital structure neutral.

    Gross Rent = ~$680k

    Net Rent = $638k

    NOI = $288k (inclusive of $30k of capex reserves)

    This NOI figure is fully baked. It's based off historical financials from QuickBooks. If you'd like a more granular P&L, I'd be happy to PM.

     Wow, the numbers are really great. My feeling is that the main issue is that it is spread around several properties. One should ve very careful with location, as the numbers are too good. Why not to call to a random agent and ask about comps and the location? You are not signing anything with them and dont have to disclose that you have pinned one of the properties already...

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    $30,000 CAPEX reserves across 80 units? What are the condition(s) of these units?

    A lot of people use 10% of rent for annual CAPEX reserves when buying typical properties -- now this is a large purchase and maybe doesn't apply. I'd also say those numbers are good, bad, or indifferent. It's either too small, too much, or just right, depending on what you've purchased and its condition.

    But if your annual rent is 680,000, and you use the 10% rule, you'd be setting aside $68,000 a year. I think its low, and I think you'll uncover all kinds of problems that I'm sure were neglected, but amortized over several years that seems like a reasonable number to me.


    Did I miss something or do you truly plan on walking forth with only 30k a year set aside across 80 units?

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:
    Originally posted by @Troy Hebert:
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:

    could you give more numbers: what is gross income for these properties, the cost of management company, etc

    Kate - high level, the npumbers are as follows. These are all unlevered/capital structure neutral.

    Gross Rent = ~$680k

    Net Rent = $638k

    NOI = $288k (inclusive of $30k of capex reserves)

    This NOI figure is fully baked. It's based off historical financials from QuickBooks. If you'd like a more granular P&L, I'd be happy to PM.

     Wow, the numbers are really great. My feeling is that the main issue is that it is spread around several properties. One should ve very careful with location, as the numbers are too good. Why not to call to a random agent and ask about comps and the location? You are not signing anything with them and dont have to disclose that you have pinned one of the properties already...

    Exactly my initial thought on the agent. I called around and no one was willing to help me out. I have a new lead from one of the larger brokerage houses though, which I plan to follow. I have an LOI out with exclusivity, once we sign that up I can start spending real $'s on due diligence.

    When you say location, what specifically is your concern? Do you mean the type of neighborhood (i.e. South Side of Chicago), regulatory, environmental etc.? I think generally it's in a sleepy, nice little rural town. The units are well maintained and the neighborhood would honestly be considered a C (maybe a B-, but incomes are a bit lower here)

    I like that it's spread around several properties. My thought is that it offers diversification + rent and vacancy stability. IMO, the cap rate should trade down favorably the more and more properties you have due to diversification and some operating leverage realized from scale (higher NOI margins as expenses are shared across a platform as opposed to a single unit). Assuming I get this signed up, I will share with folks a growth strategy we plan to implement. It stems from the upper middle market private equity world, that I think is just now trickling down to small business (I consider this deal a small business at $640k of net revenue).

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 294 posts · 104 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Troy Hebert:
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:
    Originally posted by @Troy Hebert:
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:

    could you give more numbers: what is gross income for these properties, the cost of management company, etc

    Kate - high level, the npumbers are as follows. These are all unlevered/capital structure neutral.

    Gross Rent = ~$680k

    Net Rent = $638k

    NOI = $288k (inclusive of $30k of capex reserves)

    This NOI figure is fully baked. It's based off historical financials from QuickBooks. If you'd like a more granular P&L, I'd be happy to PM.

     Wow, the numbers are really great. My feeling is that the main issue is that it is spread around several properties. One should ve very careful with location, as the numbers are too good. Why not to call to a random agent and ask about comps and the location? You are not signing anything with them and dont have to disclose that you have pinned one of the properties already...

    Exactly my initial thought on the agent. I called around and no one was willing to help me out. I have a new lead from one of the larger brokerage houses though, which I plan to follow. I have an LOI out with exclusivity, once we sign that up I can start spending real $'s on due diligence.

    When you say location, what specifically is your concern? Do you mean the type of neighborhood (i.e. South Side of Chicago), regulatory, environmental etc.? I think generally it's in a sleepy, nice little rural town. The units are well maintained and the neighborhood would honestly be considered a C (maybe a B-, but incomes are a bit lower here)

    I like that it's spread around several properties. My thought is that it offers diversification + rent and vacancy stability. IMO, the cap rate should trade down favorably the more and more properties you have due to diversification and some operating leverage realized from scale (higher NOI margins as expenses are shared across a platform as opposed to a single unit). Assuming I get this signed up, I will share with folks a growth strategy we plan to implement. It stems from the upper middle market private equity world, that I think is just now trickling down to small business (I consider this deal a small business at $640k of net revenue).

    I would check the crime and schools in a first place. South of Chicago has this kind of numbers, but it is almost impossible to cash out there. A general website like zillow can give you an idea how fast you can rent out a door. From what I saw on market, a package usually contains bad and good properties. I would be very careful with each particular building.

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    $30,000 CAPEX reserves across 80 units? What are the condition(s) of these units?

    A lot of people use 10% of rent for annual CAPEX reserves when buying typical properties -- now this is a large purchase and maybe doesn't apply. I'd also say those numbers are good, bad, or indifferent. It's either too small, too much, or just right, depending on what you've purchased and its condition.

    But if your annual rent is 680,000, and you use the 10% rule, you'd be setting aside $68,000 a year. I think its low, and I think you'll uncover all kinds of problems that I'm sure were neglected, but amortized over several years that seems like a reasonable number to me.


    Did I miss something or do you truly plan on walking forth with only 30k a year set aside across 80 units?

    R&M historically has averaged $32,100 per year (incl. snow removal & landscaping,  occupied unit repairs, plumbing repairs, etc.), with incremental $21k of capex reserves at $250/unit (which has accrued to $60k and we will take the full amount as the buyer). This doesn't include another $24k of apartment turnover expense such as painting and cleaning. 

    My model assumes an increase to total R&M plus capex reserves of $70k (incremental $20k of capex reserves for $40k total).

    Properties are in great shape but we will need someone to go in there and do the full work. There are 80 units but its spread across ~10 properties, they are mostly 7 or 8 unit multi-families.

    My plan is to sweep the full accrued capex reserve account and compare that to the total depreciated cost of all large ticket items that will need to be replaced during my ownership. For example, if the appraiser says roof may need to be replaced in 5 years for $50k, we will take $10k a year PF increase in the P&L. We will then have a purchase price adjustment to reflect the spread between the reserve account and the total depreciation on big ticket items. Basically the seller will be paying for all the depreciated cost of the big ticket items as those were costs (non-cash) we shouldn't assume as the buyer as they occurred prior to our ownership. Unless in the unlikely case the $60k of capex reserves is more than the cost of big ticket items coming up, for which the seller will receive some incremental proceeds.

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Troy Hebert sounds like you've done your due diligence, that's great. I'm a tiny fish in a big pond, but my estimations are that people don't put enough aside for maintenance and CAPEX in general. $32,000 R/M seems...low...spread across 10 different properties of that size. $3,200 a year average per property? And you are employing someone too, I assume you'll be paying for that.

    Again, I think you have it locked up, I might just be missing it. My aim is to be the squeaky ultra conservative wheel. :)

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:
    Originally posted by @Troy Hebert:
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:
    Originally posted by @Troy Hebert:
    Originally posted by @Kate J.:

    could you give more numbers: what is gross income for these properties, the cost of management company, etc

    Kate - high level, the npumbers are as follows. These are all unlevered/capital structure neutral.

    Gross Rent = ~$680k

    Net Rent = $638k

    NOI = $288k (inclusive of $30k of capex reserves)

    This NOI figure is fully baked. It's based off historical financials from QuickBooks. If you'd like a more granular P&L, I'd be happy to PM.

     Wow, the numbers are really great. My feeling is that the main issue is that it is spread around several properties. One should ve very careful with location, as the numbers are too good. Why not to call to a random agent and ask about comps and the location? You are not signing anything with them and dont have to disclose that you have pinned one of the properties already...

    Exactly my initial thought on the agent. I called around and no one was willing to help me out. I have a new lead from one of the larger brokerage houses though, which I plan to follow. I have an LOI out with exclusivity, once we sign that up I can start spending real $'s on due diligence.

    When you say location, what specifically is your concern? Do you mean the type of neighborhood (i.e. South Side of Chicago), regulatory, environmental etc.? I think generally it's in a sleepy, nice little rural town. The units are well maintained and the neighborhood would honestly be considered a C (maybe a B-, but incomes are a bit lower here)

    I like that it's spread around several properties. My thought is that it offers diversification + rent and vacancy stability. IMO, the cap rate should trade down favorably the more and more properties you have due to diversification and some operating leverage realized from scale (higher NOI margins as expenses are shared across a platform as opposed to a single unit). Assuming I get this signed up, I will share with folks a growth strategy we plan to implement. It stems from the upper middle market private equity world, that I think is just now trickling down to small business (I consider this deal a small business at $640k of net revenue).

    I would check the crime and schools in a first place. South of Chicago has this kind of numbers, but it is almost impossible to cash out there. A general website like zillow can give you an idea how fast you can rent out a door. From what I saw on market, a package usually contains bad and good properties. I would be very careful with each particular building.

    On crime, I looked on Neighborhood Scout and the buildings are in the less dangerous areas of the "city". They look like they are in good locations. Issue with Neighborhood Scout is it gives you the full spectrum for just that region, its not on an absolute basis. So for example, New Canaan Connecticut (not my location) is one of the nicest areas in the country, yet it has a all blue "Dangerous" area in the center. Not the best for determining how dangerous the area really is. At least on a relative basis, my properties are in the less dangerous areas. Note there is a country club a couple miles away from most of my properties.

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    @Troy Hebert sounds like you've done your due diligence, that's great. I'm a tiny fish in a big pond, but my estimations are that people don't put enough aside for maintenance and CAPEX in general. $32,000 R/M seems...low...spread across 10 different properties of that size. $3,200 a year average per property? And you are employing someone too, I assume you'll be paying for that.

    Again, I think you have it locked up, I might just be missing it. My aim is to be the squeaky ultra conservative wheel. :)

    Greatly appreciate the conservatism. That's the best way to approach.

    I am employing the existing management company, which is including in my NOI figure. However, I am increasing the compensation to that team, as I want to incentivize them to stick around. Pro Forma NOI is actually ~$15k lower than what I quoted earlier here, based on this.

  • Investor · Stratford, CT · Member since 2015 · 258 posts · 230 votes
    7y

    @Troy Hebert - Regarding your vacancy question in the event of a reoccurrence of 2009. Our Class B apartments outside of Portland OR experienced approximately a 4% reduction in rental income during that time. Vacancies increased very slightly, but we had to make rental concessions to keep occupancy high. Our rents have historically been just a little below market to achieve high occupancy and low turnover.  Our normal vacancy rate is 2-3%. Your positioning in B/C should help you weather that storm.  You note that the current vacancy rate is 7%.  That seems very high for today's market and for Stamford. In New Haven and the Valley we have not experienced any real economic vacancy loss in the past two years with several B-/C+ properties. Sop, I wonder why this portfolio is at 7%.  Rents too high for market?  Lax property management?

  • Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Ed - these aren’t in Stamford. I haven’t disclosed the location here.

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