Where are the real investors? Any one know?... Bueller... Bueller

[Steve S.]

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

[McKenzie Peterson]

I am new to BP but I truly feel like this resource has allowed me to meet so many people that have great insight on deals.

[Steve S.]

@McKenzie Peterson And I am super happy that you have found that. I think it is incredible that this is a resource for new people such as yourself. However, it almost feels like there needs to be a subdivision on here for veterans or for high-net worth individuals. I dunno... just trying to spitball ideas and see where the real players, like me, are on here. Seems like a lot of people just sit on the sidelines and read, which again is great and I am happy people do, but making real connections with real investors is important as well and it feels like this place has been diluted of those.

[John M.]

@Steve S. Maybe BP needs a separate VIP forum area for the big ballers?  (maybe part of the pro membership which I don't have?).

I am a newbie here too, although not a newbie to real estate or investing.  Not a big player myself but I am enjoying getting to know people on here in general.  I have found BP is a great resource even for someone like myself with some experience.

[David S.]

They are busy being deal makers.... I have noticed the same thing as well. I do think we should show more respect on this forum. All of the big players I know are not going to put up with receiving a hard time on an Internet forum. Although that has gotten much better with a ton of mods on here now. I also noticed the self promotion of businesses as well. I think we are morphing more into a message board for professionals to round up clients and a place to get referrals.

[Matt K.]

They're here and they network... but typically through PM...

[Mike Dymski]

Hey Steve.  If an experienced investor asks a tough question on the forums, they get crickets.  If an experienced investors tries to help unaware members that mortgage acceleration programs are scams, they get pride and push back in return.  If an experienced investor wants to read posts about commercial multifamily, they have to sift through hundreds of 2-4 family posts on the commercial multifamily forum.  If an experienced investors wants to network and learn about new subjects, they have to sift through hundreds of posts on how to charge a late fee or what can someone buy with no money and no credit.

I have learned that the forums are not the best place to learn for experienced investors but there are connections to be made and the real exchanges are happening in PMs and phone conversations now.  It's also helpful to be selective about who you become colleagues with.  If your colleagues are posting on a topic, those posts show up when you open BP.  At a minimum, you know if you click on those posts, there will be some good information there...and you end up with a group of experienced members (who are colleagues) responding to the same posts.

And for the record, real players don't refer to themselves as real players.

[Steve S.]

@Mike Dymski and @Matt K. Yeah I hear ya... I have dealt with plenty on here and made some really great connections. I do think a true VIP area or something like that would be a good addition. 

And Mike... you're right, real players might not refer to themselves as that, but in this instance I had to because I am trying to engage in a conversation and make my point about this forum being inundated with first-timers and novices. Again, I have nothing wrong with newbies, they need to learn and need a place to connect. However, I think seasoned veterans need a place to go to work on real stuff and not sift through endless white noise to find a true worthwhile connection. 

[Matt K.]

Every forum goes through this... The older members get annoyed by the new ones asking the same questions over and over. The old ones become less active and stop answering questions and then the quality of new it information degrades.

VIP area not going to fix it either ... I'm not sure how you'd vet "seasoned veterans" or "real stuff" either. Again, this real stuff is pretty easy to get done through networking through pm or real life not like that is going to change with or without a VIP area.

[Michaela G.]

Too many members and newbies. 

Some years ago you could come to the forum once a day, read through the headlines quickly and see, if there's something that you can answer or an interesting topic that might teach something. 

These days there're +1000 new posts in a day. I feel like that I can't keep up anyway, so most days I don't look in. 

In addition also the fact, that after you've read a post you can't just click back, but have to keep clicking newest post, which gets you all the way to the beginning again, even though you had been 40 posts down before. There's only so often that I'm willing to do that and I just let it go. 

[Anthony Gayden]

Originally posted by @Steve S.:

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

 The problem is defining who the “real” investors are.

How do you define it? Net worth? Properties owned? Years of experience? 

A doctor who owns a 24 unit apartment complex valued at $1.5 million. That is his only deal and he bought it turn key and out of state. Compare that to a mom and pop investor who owns 6 properties which he bought and rehabbed individually, he self manages and has been investing for 10 years, but the value of his properties is less than $1 million. Who is the more experienced investor? 

[Matt K.]

Originally posted by @Anthony Gayden:

Originally posted by @Steve S.:

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

 The problem is defining who the “real” investors are.

How do you define it? Net worth? Properties owned? Years of experience? 

A doctor who owns a 24 unit apartment complex valued at $1.5 million. That is his only deal and he bought it turn key and out of state. Compare that to a mom and pop investor who owns 6 properties which he bought and rehabbed individually, he self manages and has been investing for 10 years, but the value of his properties is less than $1 million. Who is the more experienced investor? 

 Let's go by votes, if you're not over 1k votes you obviously aren't real....

(hopefully my sarcasm comes through loud and clear....)

[Scott Em]

More detailed post topics could be added so that one could categorize a question/post more specifically.

[Caleb Heimsoth]

@Steve Snyder I have definitely seen this and would say it’s probably been more over the last 2 years or so (which is about how long I’ve been on BP). Either way what happens for most and for me to, is you come you learn a lot and then you leave or become less active as you learn what you need. I can only answer so many threads about buying out of state or “do I need an llc” lol. I’m not even experienced in my mind, but I’ve been super active. Like mentioned above I prefer to network over PM or in my local area. The forums are cool and I post when I can but I do get what your saying. If BP did have a VIP area I think I they should do it based on net worth of property owned AND years experience. Probably 5 years minimum of experience and 1M owned net worth of REI.

[Clifford Paul]

Why not start a new website for real investors. Real Real Estate Investors.com

You can charge a 10k membership fee and require bank account numbers to weed out the fakes. LOL

[Noel R.]

@Steve Snyder There is a pro area where you might have less noob questions.

[Matt K.]

Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

@Steve Snyder

I have definitely seen this and would say it’s probably been more over the last 2 years or so (which is about how long I’ve been on BP). Either way what happens for most and for me to, is you come you learn a lot and then you leave or become less active as you learn what you need.

I can only answer so many threads about buying out of state or “do I need an llc” lol. I’m not even experienced in my mind, but I’ve been super active. Like mentioned above I prefer to network over PM or in my local area. The forums are cool and I post when I can but I do get what your saying.

If BP did have a VIP area I think I they should do it based on net worth of property owned AND years experience. Probably 5 years minimum of experience and 1M owned net worth of REI.

 How would you vet this, what counts as experience? If I've owned something 5 years but never set foot and it's been managed professionally would I still have experience? 

Net worth pointless too, I have access to off market deals that far exceed my capabilities but could be valid for the right person.... the only reason I have access to them is networking. 

I've proven I can uphold my end of a deal (even it's small $) and I'm able to connect others to do the same on both ends. The VIP area would likely be dead and the deals would still be done via PM and good old face to face networking. I keep my BP profile spares on purpose, last thing I'd want is a VIP designator that tags me as high networth lol...

[Jason Hill]

@Steve Snyder I can see where your frustrations come from. But after being the army for over 10 years I have learned that no matter your rank or in this case your level of investing your still a newbie to someone. Some one who has a portfolio worth of million is still a newbie to the high rollers whos portfolio is in the billions. My advice is to do a search about topics that are more toward your level of investing see who is answering then connect with them. Jmo

[Tony Mai]

@Caleb Heimsoth I have to 2nd what Caleb said everytime there’s a new thread he’s on it giving back to new people. I myself try to do the same but my time and resources are limited and I can’t read every single thread or comment. But if something interesting comes up I’ll chime in.

[Steve Vaughan]

I can name quite a few extremely knowledgeable members that were very generous with their time that up and stopped posting altogether.  Most a few years ago, some more recently. I don't know why they left or where they went, but I feel repetitive answer fatigue, too.  I certainly yap a lot less than I used to.

I look to and connect with the new rock stars like Caleb that are out there helping anyway they can.  I don't reach out much, but when I do, it's usually to someone like him out there helping.  Making connections (for sales and funding apparently) are not why all of us are here.

No, there shouldn't be a VIP area. Sheesh.  Think of why Josh even built this thing.  I wouldn't join a VIP area if you paid me, much less do I even bother being a 'Pro'. Let your stats do the talking if that's your thing.  

Maybe start with the guy in your mirror. Instead of offering yet another JV deal, help someone out. Show you have the knowledge and experience to do something besides sell while you're here.

[Jeffrey Almonte]

I have been a longtime lurker of BP (since 2011) and have seen very active people not post anymore for various reasons.

Some of the big real estate players are in masterminds with other real estate giants. It's a great way to keep each other accountable and discuss real estate with people of the same experience level and goals.

Some other people have shifted their real estate strategies and have found other forums or websites more beneficial for their real estate niche.

[Matt K.]

Let's just make this easy... Vendors can sponsor (read that as fund) a accredited investor section. BP can screen and verify access and the vendors don't have to sift through the no money down deals.

Please let me know to whom I send my PayPal invoice to for this idea...

[Shiloh Lundahl]

@Steve S. I felt the same way about 6 months ago. I felt like a lot of the posts were repetitive entry level questions. Then I thought of the Jim Rhon saying about being the average of the 5 people you associate with the most and I started a post on BP called Millionaire Mindset Vs Non-Millionaire Mindset. My premise was basically the same as yours. I wanted to mingle with more experienced, higher net worth individuals. 

Some people thought that I was just being arrogant or proud. Others chimed in and were really helpful such as @Mike Dymski who humbly stated that what I was looking for was called a mastermind group. Then I started researching mastermind groups and I started reaching out to other more experienced investors through private messages to start building a mastermind group. I connected with @Derek Dombeck who started spearheading building a mastermind group. He found that out of the 20 or so that qualified (through experience, success, etc.) that when it came time to get together, many of them had a lot of time commitments and it has been difficult to get them together.

But I think the concept is this, and it is something I noticed in myself over time as I read and posted on BiggerPockets. As my knowledge and understanding about real estate investing grew, I became hungrier for more meat or more advanced information. I didn’t want to keep taking basic math 101 over and over again by reading through the forums. I wanted to start taking algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and eventually advanced calculus but in real estate rather than math. So it may not be as much that the quality of the content has declined as much as it appears but rather that your insight, understanding, and experience has grown to the point that you are ready for more than what the BP forums usually offer.

The next step for me is to start participating in mastermind groups. I am going to participate in 2 of them. One locally in Arizona, and the other one nationally with members in several states. I’m not interested in participating in amateurmind groups with people just starting out, but I am interested in participating in or creating these two mastermind groups. This is my plan to continue to progress in my personal journey of growth.

[Will Gaston]

Originally posted by @Steve S.:

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

 This tells me more about the RE market than Bigger Pockets. Probably time to consider the old adage "Buy at the funeral, sell at the wedding".

[Todd Dexheimer]

I would say that you're over-reacting. There are a ton of seasoned investors on this site, but as it becomes more popular, they will be heard less. For every 10 newer investors, you have 1 seasoned investor join (this is a guess on ratio, not a cold hard fact). When this happens, it appears that the experienced investors have gone away and only the newbies are here. 

[Steve S.]

@Shiloh Lundahl That is a pretty good point. Yeah, I am sure there are mastermind groups around and I suppose I will have to devote some more time and energy to pursuing them and working with them. Thank you for the insight. I appreciate it.

It would be nice if there was a way to setup private groups on here, kinda like on Linked In. Maybe we can get that created? Who knows.