Freedom number

Freedom number

Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes

Hello Folks - Thanks in advance for your assistance. I am a relatively new member and have been extensively pouring over the podcasts for the last several number. I just finished listening to one of the podcasts with Peter Clayton on freedom number. The cheatsheet is here -> https://s3.amazonaws.com/claytonmorris/Webinar/You...

I have a few questions based on reading through this.

1. Firstly assuming we use Clayton's numbers of $5000 pm expense and $420 pm income buying 12 properties looks fairly reasonable. However, he assumes all properties are paid off. If I use the more realistic scenario of a beginner investor like me who is probably going to see a further cut due to mortgage and assuming Brandon's guidance of $100 per property, the above $5000 pm translates to 50 properties which makes it seem like a very very difficult goal whereas 12 seems a reasonable goal. Can someone help me understand if I am looking at this the right way? 

2. Clayton obtained the $5000 pm number based on looking at 6 months expense. In my specific case, I am setting aside money for 401K, retirement and 529 plan for child's education. Should these be considered in working out a 6 month expense number or not be considered like what Clayton has done? If I don't consider them, how will these other items be funded?

3. Freedom number assumes some of your other costs are going to go up. As an example, group insurance you may have earlier been eligible for now becomes difficult because you need to go to the insurance marketplace where rates are higher. Where are these considerations factored in?

4. Is there another model I need to use? I know people say to start with 1 property at a time. I am just getting a bit scared looking at the above numbers to see if this is feasible.

Regards,

Azeez

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Investor · Columbus, MT · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y

@Abdul Azeez

Great questions.  I loved listening to that podcast about the freedom number. 

1. If you are driven enough, unrealistic goals become attainable. I am in the camp that likes the 12 paid for properties with $5000 cash flow more than 50 units with the same cash flow. Long term the guy with 50 units will do much better as his loans are paid off in 30 years. But this all assumes he can survive the real estate crashes and make all the payments.  The guy with free and clear should not have a problem. 

Leverage is gold. Use it to get to where you want to go. 

I personally like the idea of buying the 12 (or whatever number you need) houses and then flipping and selling your way to being debt free.

2. When I created my freedom number I totaled out all my spending and added $1500 just to be safe.   However, don't get caught up in making the number perfect.  Just set a goal and adjust as more money rolls in. 

Good luck out there 

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  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    10y

    Anyone?

  • Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2016 · 190 posts · 64 votes
    10y
    It's only been ages hours and you asked several questions... Can you clarify what $5000 PM is (means). Thanks.
  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    10y

    Hi Patrick - Thanks. Let me elaborate. What Clayton did was take an average of 6 months of living expense and this came to around $5000 per month (PM) for him. So, I used that as a hypothetical example. PM in all of the above refers to per month. His $420 pm income was derived from the fact that he used $700 per month rent multiplied by .6 (for vacancy and repairs) to come to $420.

    Regards,

    Azeez

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    10y

    bump.

  • Specialist · Lakewood, CO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Abdul Azeez settle down. You don't need to bump a post that is a handful of hours old. Here are some thoughts for you:

    1. You are, but your mileage might vary. Is $100/door good enough for you? If you get $200/door you can buy 25 properties. Another route to consider is multifamily. Many doors at once.

    2. Fund whatever you want, however you want. Some people want to quit their hated W-2 job, some absolutely love working their W-2 but want to know they could leave at any time. Most are somewhere between. If you can get to your freedom number, does it matter if you have a 529 plan? Your child's college can be paid with regular old money from investing instead of the 529. Some people like to separate their money. Do you? That's a personal question, the same as the 401k

    3. I don't know. As an aside, everyone is different so it doesn't matter much. For some, they may want $50k/year, for others it could be $300k/year. Add a cushion and call it a day

    4. There is not necessarily a model. There is knowledge, then there is strategy. Read books, peruse the forums, talk with other investors, etc. That will build your knowledge. Figure out YOUR end goal, YOUR risk tolerances, and YOUR preferences and that will inform your strategy.

    Ultimately, it sounds like you are looking for a set recipe with specific math. You aren't going to find that in RE. What you are going to find are tons of strategies (leverage to the hilt, buy cash only, etc.) that all work brilliantly for some and not at all for others because of their own personal goals and tolerances. This is very much a you adventure. Figure out your goal and work backwards from there.

  • Investor · Columbus, MT · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Abdul Azeez

    Great questions.  I loved listening to that podcast about the freedom number. 

    1. If you are driven enough, unrealistic goals become attainable. I am in the camp that likes the 12 paid for properties with $5000 cash flow more than 50 units with the same cash flow. Long term the guy with 50 units will do much better as his loans are paid off in 30 years. But this all assumes he can survive the real estate crashes and make all the payments.  The guy with free and clear should not have a problem. 

    Leverage is gold. Use it to get to where you want to go. 

    I personally like the idea of buying the 12 (or whatever number you need) houses and then flipping and selling your way to being debt free.

    2. When I created my freedom number I totaled out all my spending and added $1500 just to be safe.   However, don't get caught up in making the number perfect.  Just set a goal and adjust as more money rolls in. 

    Good luck out there 

  • Investor · Bryan, TX · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 82 votes
    10y

    I have put a ton of thought into this subject.  For ten years my family of five survived off of my w2 paycheck.  We lived payday to payday with very little savings. When my youngest son started kindergarten my wife went to work.  The boost in income was great and life began to slowly change. Local fishing trips turned into out of state fishing trips, date night went from fast food to steak houses, the used SUV turned into a new truck.......our standard of living changed. That is why I cannot set a freedom number, It will change as I do.  You MUST set goals but don't set a goal thinking this is the end.  My fear in setting a freedom number is that I will rush to it thinking that"this is it!" And when I get there realize that had I gone a little slower things would have turned out better. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    10y

    Folks. Amazing replies. And thanks for the same. I am relatively new to BP hence the bump since I did not hear from anyone and when i saw the new posts, mine went pages and pages behind. So, I thought it might get ignored. Thanks so much for stepping in and helping answer these questions. I appreciate it deeply.

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