Statesboro, GA · Member since 2015 · 99 posts · 24 votes
Hello, all. I tried to look through the forums for a related topic to this, but couldn't find one. With all the news of mass shootings, more and more people are buying weapons for their own protection. This isn't to start a debate on thoughts of gun control, just to simply ask the question: Is it okay for a real estate agent to carry an unconcealed firearm (on the hip or somewhere noticeable) for their own safety?
I live in south Georgia, so guns are very common. To me, having an agent show me a home with a gun holstered on his hip wouldn't make me uncomfortable, and I would actually consider doing so myself with showing homes. What are your thoughts?
Side note: I did some research on the topic myself before posting this. I found an article that took a poll on whether or not local real estate agencies should offer gun safety training. 55% said yes, it could be helpful. 32.86% said no, that it should be left to other agencies. And 12.14% said maybe, that it depends on the local laws. The same article quoted, "...in the National Association of REALTORS®’ 2015 Member Safety Report, 12 percent of REALTORS® say they carry a gun in the field."
Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 16 votes
10y
I will always carry! Done right, with the right training no would ever know. I carry if im going to million dollar houses or 5k dollar house. The neighborhood is not a determination if I carry or not. I want to be in control of my life in every aspect, I carry insurance for my finances and a gun for my life.
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
@Account Closed Well hunter good question
My agents take cookie dough and have fresh baked chocolate cookies going in the oven when the folks arrive for an open house. I have to say I really don't know any of my female agents who carry in their purse .. or for that matter my male agents.
I see this as a regional thing. Here in Portlandia your more likely to get assaulted for some violation of none recycling or some other weirdo hippie thing ( I am dating myself). My wife is a broker and she holds open houses.. she knows if a single male comes to the house she moves to the front door and maybe out the front.
Its an issue though I don't want to make light of it.. all female agents need to have their radar up at all times. does not matter the market or anything else.. preditors exist
Real Estate Agent · Willoughby, OH · Member since 2014 · 560 posts · 690 votes
10y
I agree with joel. A knife is a lot more common and very low key as compared to a sidearm. Although this is the case, once I obtain my ccw I plan to have one in the car at all times; not necessarily on my hip unless the situation calls for it.
Flipper/Rehabber · Williamsburg, VA · Member since 2008 · 143 posts · 105 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Hello, all. I tried to look through the forums for a related topic to this, but couldn't find one. With all the news of mass shootings, more and more people are buying weapons for their own protection. This isn't to start a debate on thoughts of gun control, just to simply ask the question: Is it okay for a real estate agent to carry an unconcealed firearm (on the hip or somewhere noticeable) for their own safety?
I live in south Georgia, so guns are very common. To me, having an agent show me a home with a gun holstered on his hip wouldn't make me uncomfortable, and I would actually consider doing so myself with showing homes. What are your thoughts?
Side note: I did some research on the topic myself before posting this. I found an article that took a poll on whether or not local real estate agencies should offer gun safety training. 55% said yes, it could be helpful. 32.86% said no, that it should be left to other agencies. And 12.14% said maybe, that it depends on the local laws. The same article quoted, "...in the National Association of REALTORS®’ 2015 Member Safety Report, 12 percent of REALTORS® say they carry a gun in the field."
What are your thoughts?
I don't think agents should open-carry, and here's my humble opinion from experience:
I grew up in a suburb of New Jersey where violence was glorified. I was one of those guys who would fight, stab, or even shoot you for asking me for a dime... I'm not kidding. Steady eye-contact with me was certainly grounds for consequences. I was so bad, my father begged an Army recruiter to sign me up for military service.
If a person (such as an agent) came to a rough neighborhood displaying a "threat," they make themselves subject to any measure taken to be subdued. In neighborhoods with a lot of potential aggressors, open carry is an invitation to get exactly what you were trying to avoid. Predators (and they are predators) know that you must discharge your weapon for reasons such as self-defense, but these individuals will shoot you for no good reason and do it when they know you're not ready. Making the argument that they are cowards won't reverse the fact that you're beaten or dead.
With that said, open-carry is pretty brazen and stupid in my opinion. Concealed carry is wise and more effective for an agent, if they decide to carry at all.
Even until this day when I see someone open-carrying... I'm thinking "who does he think he is?" It's nothing for a shady character to put some wood to your head, take your gun right off your hip, and keep moving like nothing ever happen. Don't show that you're tough... be tough. Boxers don't walk around with boxing gloves on daring someone to square up with them.
I'm the nicest agent in the world. However, if a person wants to bring harm to me or my client... then they'll get the rest of my story up close and personal, and it won't be pretty.
Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes
10y
If you feel the need to carry, and it's legal to do so, then my opinion is to carry concealed. This is a hot button issue with some pretty strident opinions on either side. No need to potentially offend a client who may not share your views on the issue.
Fine, but my comment was as general as possible - - regardless who has possession.
I would run from the property as well as the agent, and begin looking somewhere else.
Consider: No one will honestly answer these kinds of question:
when were the police last seen on this block?
how many nights have you heard shots fired?
To me, seeing a weapon raises all kinds of questions and I don't even want to hang around to hear any explanations.
What class property is this class-D?
You can visit the local police department and get the answers to those questions. I've heard of it being done.
Though, in my opinion, I'd go for the concealed carrying over open carry. Open carry means one of two things: That section of town is nicknamed Little Beirut or the likes of - Its a small mountain(think Deliverance) town where nothing happens as most of the country / world doesn't even know of it existing, yet everyone from the minister to the mortician open carries. In either case, some due diligence will give you a heads up... to each their own.
Now whether or not one, a real estate professional or other, should carry depends if the person is comfortable carrying a concealed weapon while working in addition to being willing and able to secure the proper gun training. It's much more dangerous carrying a weapon that you don't have any idea how to operate. My coin.
Rental Property Investor · Chilliwack, B.C. · Member since 2015 · 115 posts · 37 votes
10y
As the only Canadian to respond to this post and guns are no where as common in Canada as in the states, I believe the last article I read mentioned 93% of Americans own firearms, the sight of a weapon would make me feel very reluctant to buy in that area, trust that person nor would I want my wife entering a house with someone who had a weapon even if they had a permit.
I have spent a lot of time in the states, at least 50-80 days a year for the last ten years and the whole idea of weapons still make us weary and yes I do understand it is your second amendment, forgive me if I'm wrong on that.
Statesboro, GA · Member since 2015 · 99 posts · 24 votes
10y
Wow, I'm overwhelmed with all the responses. Thank you to everyone! I have only shown one house thus far. I'm not an agent, it was one of my parent's homes in the country. I showed it to a random guy I had met off Craigslist. At the time, didn't seem too crazy. But looking back, I was with some random guy who was 100 pounds heavier than me, alone in a house, down a dirt road in the middle of the woods. I just can't imagine doing the same situation again without any type of protection. I will have it concealed at all times, though. Thanks for all the responses!
Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes
10y
@Kris Mcfarlane I love you guys in Canada, but "93% of Americans own guns?" The figure is more like 32% The percentage of gun ownership varies widely by state, with Alaska having the highest gun ownership at 61% (makes sense) and Delaware having the lowest at 5%.
Rental Property Investor · Marianna Florida · Member since 2011 · 357 posts · 169 votes
10y
I am a Realtor, a former police officer, and a former firearms instructor in Florida. I have certified over 2500 people to get a Florida concealed weapons weapons and firearms license. I'd guess that over a 100 were Realtors.
I always carry. I'm not a fan of open carry at all, and as some have suggested here it may give the wrong impression of the neighborhood.
Memphis, TN · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 27 votes
10y
I think it's perfectly fine to carry concealed. Not long ago, a female real estate agent was murdered nearby while meeting a prospective client. Not saying the perpetrator wouldn't have gotten the drop on her regardless, but carrying definitely makes me more aware of my environment. As a woman, it doesn't really bother me...
Real Estate Investor · Palmer, AK · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 3 votes
10y
Absolutely carry concealed. I live in Alaska and see lots of open carry here. It can put people on edge and uncomfortable. I carry concealed for personal protection, not to make a statement. That seems to be the goal of those who open carry...
Contractor · Loganville, WI · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 44 votes
10y
I am a big fan of conceal carry. I carry every day. Puts me at peace of mind. If you practice conceal carry is just as fast to draw as open carry. Plus no one can see the gun to get the wrong idea.
A must have in my mind if you do any deal with cash in larger amounts.
My favorite way to carry is a small handgun in the front pants pocket. Enough to handle 2-3 attackers at close range under 30 feet and is not heavy enough to impact how you dress or move.
Investor · Valdosta, GA · Member since 2015 · 187 posts · 112 votes
10y
I'm in south GA as well. It doesn't bother me to see anyone openly carrying. I plan to be one of those people very soon. My old quiet, safe college & military town just isn't what it used to be.
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
10y
In some of our gun classes there would be practice of closing speed drills.
One person would have a gun to the side and the other person would have a knife from XX number of feet away.
Before the person could unsnap, draw, and fire the person with the knife had already closed in and performed a couple of arterial cuts. The point being all of the people in the drill were underestimating perception of closing speed and reaction time.
In practice people are using fine motor skills. When everything is on the line you convert to gross motor skills. That is why in martial arts we are doing forms extra crisp with high precision. When the time comes to use it in a real circumstance the gross motor movement will not be as accurate.
All of that fancy stuff in movies etc. is a bunch of junk. Real world is high impact and low energy use with very basic techniques at a high level to inflict the most damage. If you have multiple attackers you need to conserve energy to run or take out all of them. Assessing the situation and keeping yourself out of bad areas helps.
The mental part ( verbal judo ) is even more important. Practicing what to say,how to spot things, and then how to get out of situations without getting physical is very important. When it comes down to it you have to be able to defend yourself and not hesitate. The criminals could care less and do not have a conscious. If you freeze up you will lose the battle.
The problem I see with all these martial arts and self defense classes is this touchy feely stuff. People do not practice like it is really going to happen. They would make comments like "isn't this overkill?". NO it is not overkill and if you are not realistic about it you are just doing cardio.
An attacker isn't going to be nice. An attacker isn't going to ask if you are ready. An attacker isn't going to ask if they are hitting too hard and to please hit softer.
Kids training for confidence boosting, cardio, and life skills is different.
Self defense training needs to be at a different level. I just can't stand hearing these stories on the news of such and such happened etc. If that person had just had some training maybe their life could have been saved.
I am not an expert by no means but I am a strong believer in get trained with your body first which you can take EVERYWHERE at all times to defend yourself and then get external weapons training to compliment.
What happens if a gun misfires and struggle ensues and the perpetrator has better conditioning then you do?? Do you have training on how to get them off of you and get back to your feet?? If you just shoot at a gun range all the time the answer is NO. Some people's cardio is so bad they throw one swing and they are breathing hard already.
@Kris Mcfarlane I love you guys in Canada, but "93% of Americans own guns?" The figure is more like 32% The percentage of gun ownership varies widely by state, with Alaska having the highest gun ownership at 61% (makes sense) and Delaware having the lowest at 5%.
Thank you for the correction, the number I found most interesting actually after reading more into it was that 65% of guns are owned by just 20% of gun owners.
Holiday, FL · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
10y
I agree with the others. I live in FL so open carry is illegal. I wouldn't open carry even if it was legal. If the bad guy sees your weapon, you won't have the chance to draw it. Concealed is the way to go and keeps the element of surprise. I also don't agree with open carry while showing properties, your clients may not like that. What they don't know won't bother them.
I agree with the others. I live in FL so open carry is illegal. I wouldn't open carry even if it was legal. If the bad guy sees your weapon, you won't have the chance to draw it. Concealed is the way to go and keeps the element of surprise. I also don't agree with open carry while showing properties, your clients may not like that. What they don't know won't bother them.
I would also like to add that one should go to the range often and become very familiar. Professional training is a very good idea as well. Any tool in the hands of an inexperienced user is a danger to themselves and others. Keep it hidden but accessible and never draw unless you intend to use it.
Real Estate Investor · Desoto, TX · Member since 2013 · 560 posts · 528 votes
10y
When compared to other developed countries, the U.S. has way more gun violence. Why is that? Its because we believe that our real estate agents, teachers, and preachers, etc need weapons :) Most real estate transactions are completed without incidents of violence. The media promotes the small percentage of violent incidents to stroke fear. Also, having a gun doesn't guarantee ultimate safety. Police officers and soldiers carry guns every day and they still get shot and killed.
Investor · 30518 · Member since 2014 · 48 posts · 31 votes
10y
I carry a firearm on me when ever I show houses. I did this while I was wholesaling and now I do it as a licensed agent.
Since we both are in Georgia you should go to these website to get upto date and current information on Georgia gun laws. www.georgiacarry.org and www.georgiapacking.com
Lawton, OK · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 4 votes
10y
People should be able to carry a firearm regardless of profession, but also must be required to attend a basic safety course for obvious reasons. The only place I wouldn't support everyone having a firearm is in alcohol serving establishments.
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 140 posts · 45 votes
10y
@Account Closed If it makes you feel better to carry then carry. As others have stated, I would avoid having it open carry in pretty much any capacity. While I coudn't care less about other people's feelings about me for doing carrying openly it has been known to instigate issues or even highlight a potential target. It is very easy in GA to get a concealed carry license and I would recommend it to ANYONE who is willing to train on the tactics required for carry.
If a real estate agent is going to a really nice house you run the risk of someone wanting to get in there or they may assume you are loaded yourself. If the agent is going into the shadier part of town... I think we all know the risks there. It is all about personal preference and protection. Again, I would ALWAYS recommend people get a CCW if you have the legal right to.
Investor · St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2014 · 231 posts · 221 votes
10y
I'm not an agent, just an investor right now (looking into getting licensed, but that's another discussion.) I carry concealed, everywhere it's legal for me to do so. I am also a certified Pistol Instructor and competitive shooter. A firearm is not the only tool I have at my disposal for defense, but it is definitely one of them.
Open vs concealed has been covered pretty thoroughly except for one point. We all go to look at houses (either as agents or investors, or both) for BUSINESS. Guns are no more a part of that business than religious beliefs, political affiliations, or favorite foods are. Would you wear your candidate's campaign shirt to a business transaction? Probably not, because 1) it's irrelevant to the business at hand, and 2) it COULD alienate the other parties involved. I could go to a business meeting with a concealed handgun and no one knows so no one cares, but if I go with an exposed firearm and a "Make America Great Again" hat, I run the risk of alienating people who don't like guns, don't like Donald Trump, or both.
I don't even know where to start with this one, so I'll keep it as apolitical as I can. It is true that most real estate transactions are completed without violence, just like most are completed without fire. I doubt very much you would disagree with the idea of keeping a fire extinguisher handy, maybe even in your car, in case of emergency even though it is unlikely you'll need it. A fire extinguisher can be dangerous, especially in the hands of untrained users, and there's no guarantee even proper use of one will be effective.
@Joel Owens, you make an excellent case for learning self defense WITHOUT a firearm, and while I haven't taken anything you've said to discourage carrying a firearm (as well as getting trained, etc), I feel you have missed one crucial point. Martial arts are great for the young and fit, but what about the old, injured, weak, disabled, etc? My mother is a realtor who is nearly 60, exercises regularly, but wouldn't stand a chance in any sort of hand-to-hand combat. I've met agents who have disabilities who would be no match for any attacker. But every one of them could operate a handgun with little physical exertion, and if that's their only option for protection against a physically superior opponent, it's better than nothing.
Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 3 votes
10y
Living in Texas (South Texas at that), firearms are a very common occurrence around here. I also live in the fourth largest city in the world and as a female agent who will be alone at most showings, I will definitely be concealed carrying. I only have a good amount of experience with rifles and shotguns (skeet shooting) so I'll be taking a class or two to brush up with a pistol. I also believe in being 'smart' (usong your insticts about a house/neighborhood/customer and constantly aware if your surroundings. Taking a self defense/martial arts class isn't a bad idea as well; if the gun gets knocked out of my hand I'd like to be able to squeeze my self out of an attackers arms. I know you've gotten all your answers here, just throwing in my two cents. Additionally, I'd have no issue with an open carrying agent, but I know it is not the norm to be comfortable with it so I would not do it myself.
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
10y
Hi Colin,
There are people that are older for sure that have physical limitations as well as people with disabilities.
A lot of things to do with high kicks is pliability and keeping flexible more than self defense use. As you get older I know many who are seniors who would surprise people with what they can do for defense. Part of being older is the element of surprise with an attacker thinking the elderly are an easy target. One of my trainers is a guy in his late 60's that looks like a solo flex commercial. The guy is amazing but definitely not your average senior.
There are still flips,throws, redirects that can be used along with cane forms. If a cane isn't available an umbrella works great as well.
It's not so much about physical force but specific targeting of vital areas. Someone who is very large if I can I will outrun them. Larger people with a lot of muscle mass tend to be slower and have poor cardio. They also tend to not be as flexible. Even though I could go toe to toe with someone very large I am not going to do that. I do not want to expend the energy.
A nice eye finger poke or flick works great on an attacker. Makes their eyes water for a very long time. A shot to the wind pipe works really good also. If they can't breathe it makes it hard for them to come at you. The clothing a person is wearing is key. If they have a hoodie, baggy pants, their eyes look down when you make contact with a glance, their walking pattern and approach is irregular, etc. these should be red flags to be ready. I am more concerned about what I can't see then what I can with concealment.
I think the best self defense is situational awareness. Not being in a place and time where I have to use physical force to get out of a situation. That cannot always be avoided but is a good mantra to have. Criminals are looking at targets to see if they are pre-occupied and how they carry their body language.
If someone is looking down for instance when they walk, playing with a phone, etc. you are inviting an attack. Someone standing tall and relaxed but looking around and aware of what is around them is generally a turn off for a criminal.
Weapons can be good to use and can be an equalizer but one of the issues with guns is the cost to train with them which is why people can get rusty. Gun ranges if you rent a gun want their ammo only to be used and they charge extra for it. They do not want cheaper ammo mucking up the guns which is understandable or home made ammo.
My goal through situational awareness is to try to never use physical force or a weapon. Believe it or not there are actual self defense course for people with wheel chairs and they can do some amazing things.
Anyone on any day might not make it through an attack but all you can do is train and practice and give yourself the best odds to not be in such a situation. If an agent is going to a house with an unknown person they can have them meet at the office first for registering and copying drivers license and contact info etc. They can also use the buddy system for showings. If they feel uneasy they can have a code they punch in on the phone to the office where it looks like they are making a regular call. At the showing you let the people go first and keep them in eye sight the whole time. Do not turn your back or a keep a blind eye to what they are doing.
This isn't legal advice for anyone but just things to look out for.
REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
I agree with one of the points @Colin Reid made. You do not want to alienate any clients/potential clients or people your clients will be interacting with. If you choose to "open carry" and show a house that way and the "seller" saw you, they may very well decide not to accept your clients offer based on something you did. You are a representative of your broker, client and company as well as yourself.
I do not wear a cross/star of david/hand out pamphlets/give out cookies shaped like nude women/pull into a driveway blasting "Death Metal" or wear a T-Shirt that says "What are you looking at Du#$@**" when looking at or showing a house. People get offended at many things and when trying to build a business you should try and appeal to the most people you can. If you aren't a fan of the local sports team, it's best to not get into to conversations about them either. Learn 3 corny jokes that are so non-offensive people roll their eyes.
There are many ways to increase safety and security for you and your client besides open carry.
