increase my down payment with my HELOC? or not?

increase my down payment with my HELOC? or not?

Jeffrey HansonPro Member
New to Real Estate · Woodstock, VT · Member since 2021 · 6 posts · 2 votes

hey i am under contract on my first investment property, currently a 4/2 & 2/1 4600sqft duplex with a pretty easy conversion to 2/1, 2/1, 2/1 triplex.

my wife and i are going to live in the bigger half and rent the smaller unit to take a chunk out of the mortgage.

a family friend is fronting us the cash for the sale so we can close before the holidays, but i am taking out a mortgage to pay them back and using my existing HELOC for the down payment. i paid $120k cash for my house in VT in 2015, and in covid crazy times it was appraised at $180k for the HELOC. we are keeping the VT house, maybe airbnb or just rent long term. Anyway I have about $135k available on my heloc. sale price on the duplex is $279,000, so 20% is about $56k. the house is perfectly livable as-is, but at $60/sqft and properties on the block selling for $140/sqft i think there is room for some forced appreciation.

the building is currently a three-floor duplex townhouse, one unit is the ground floor and unit two is the top two floors. all floors are basically the same floor plan. the second floor has a kitchen/laundry stacked above the first floor kitchen/laundry. on the third floor, the room is in the same place and empty, but utilities (water gas electric) are already run and in place for adding a third kitchen/laundry, so conversion to triplex would be simple as installing cabinets and appliances and building an exterior staircase up to the second floor rear deck. the three 2bed/1bath units would rent for $1000-$1200 a month each, conservatively. we would have to find somewhere else to live for that to happen, but that is our 1-3 year goal anyway. 

would it be better to make the bank loan smaller with a bigger down payment from the HELOC? currently HELOC rate is at 3.00%, down from 3.99% a month ago when the 6 month initial lock ended (i have over 9 years left on my draw period). now the rate is variable. the bank is hinting that the rate on the mortgage will be around 3.5% fixed. i don't qualify for traditional mortgage on my dti (but i do double my income with overtime and bonuses, and my wife will have a new income as well once we relocate) so our family friend is cosigning on the mortgage with me. the bank is writing it internally at 15yr with a choice between amortized or balloon. the building will need a new roof in about 5 years, and leaving $35k in the HELOC for that would keep me happy, so i'm willing to go up to $100k down payment if it makes sense. that would change my loan to $179k from $223,200, but also would tap any funds i might have for improving the property other than the roof, like fencing in the backyard and converting the third floor to its own unit. the new rubber roof would be more like $20-$25k but i like to be conservative.

i have heard of people using their heloc to pay down their mortgage principal, which i could also do, but it seems to be a gimmick, and even if not may it be easier to just get a smaller loan amount to start? the family friend wants no interest, just to be repaid when we can. lucky for us!

thanks for any and all guidance

jeff

0Reply
22 views

4 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    Your entire financial structure here seems pretty complicated and it doesn't need to be.

    • HELOCs hurt your DTI and may be part of the reason you aren't qualifying. The open line of credit is assumed to be debt.
    • Are you using a mortgage broker that understands rental property? Some of the income from the rental property counts towards your DTI so this may be another reason you are not qualifying.

    If I were you, I would ultimately structure it this way.  

    • Get a 75% 30-year loan on your current house and turn it into a rental
    • Get a 75% 30-year loan on the duplex / triplex you are buying
    • Take all that extra cash you will have after you do the above and buy another property either as a rental or to live in

    Most investors I know would never get a 15-year loan because they want as much cash as possible going towards either rainy-day funds or for the purchase of more income property.  It is counter-intuitive to many, but a15-year mortgage is a much riskier way to go. Cash is king.

  • Jeffrey HansonPro Member
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Woodstock, VT · Member since 2021 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Greg Scott:

    Your entire financial structure here seems pretty complicated and it doesn't need to be.

    • HELOCs hurt your DTI and may be part of the reason you aren't qualifying. The open line of credit is assumed to be debt.
    • Are you using a mortgage broker that understands rental property? Some of the income from the rental property counts towards your DTI so this may be another reason you are not qualifying.

    If I were you, I would ultimately structure it this way.  

    • Get a 75% 30-year loan on your current house and turn it into a rental
    • Get a 75% 30-year loan on the duplex / triplex you are buying
    • Take all that extra cash you will have after you do the above and buy another property either as a rental or to live in

    Most investors I know would never get a 15-year loan because they want as much cash as possible going towards either rainy-day funds or for the purchase of more income property.  It is counter-intuitive to many, but a15-year mortgage is a much riskier way to go. Cash is king.

    thank you and I understand what you're saying, but this is my situation. this is my third lender, and i'm sick of having my credit hit by hard inquiries. we need a place to live before i start working in stl right before christmas. this got me a closing three weeks before christmas. ive already got the HELOC, its drawn about $14,000. if you know a bank that would lend me $200K on $42k base pay W2 and close by 12/2, id be happy to talk to them. i'm just wondering if its better to use my HELOC for a bigger down payment to make my loan smaller, or not, as far as making monthly payments goes.

  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    A HELOC is a short-term instrument and not suitable for a long-term hold. On a property you intend to hold long-term, replacing long-term debt with short-term debt makes no sense to me. For the pennies you will save, you expose yourself to other risks.

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    No keep your cash. Use extra heloc $ to fund more deals. More units = MORE $!

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.