Cost of College - Are You Kidding me?!

Cost of College - Are You Kidding me?!

Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

So a friend texts me yesterday. We went to college together at the University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music (CCM). He is still doing that gig, and owns a few units...

He texted me the following data he'd come across relative to cost of tuition:

Cleveland institute of Music - Tuition $42,250 / All in $59,082

Oberlin - $66,000

University of Southern Cal Thornton - $70k

Are you kidding me? The pay at #20 of the top 20 American orchestras is under $60,000. Each of these top 20 employ plus or minus 100 people, for a total roster of 2,000. This means that the rest of the graduates of these conservatories, simply put, bounce on ****...

Please tell me why in the hell anyone will pay these amounts or anything near to learn music, art, or any other liberal art thing...

No **** the millennials have Net Worth of $12,000, or whatever it is. This is just nuts...

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Real Estate Agent · Berlin, MA · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 95 votes

Silly Ben, it's not the students who are paying these costs, the gubmint will get them through! Why would the student care what it costs, they'll just take a loan and then ask Hillary or Bernie to pay it for them.

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Michael Totman
Real Estate Agent · Berlin, MA · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 95 votes
10y
Silly Ben, it's not the students who are paying these costs, the gubmint will get them through! Why would the student care what it costs, they'll just take a loan and then ask Hillary or Bernie to pay it for them.
8 Reply
Jay J.
., OH · Member since 2015 · 361 posts · 127 votes
10y
Seriously, you're just now realizing now un-affordable most college degree's (with the less than stellar future job outlooks) are..? :-/
CCM is a nice place, My wife went there also.. but yea, as a whole I think college is over rated. Unless you need a specialized degree (ie, law, medical, etc..)
Just my $0.02.
0 Reply
Abel CurielBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Queens, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
The student loan debt crisis is yet another crisis swept under the rug in this country. Our nation's debt is the main reason why state and federal funding for colleges/universities has been cut significantly. So as all the expenses associated with running these institutions increases, the demand for funds increases. And if the state and federal governments cant afford to keep up with these expenses, guess who gets stuck with the bill!!??.... STUDENTS!!...
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1 Reply
Daniel Smith
Studio City, CA · Member since 2016 · 69 posts · 15 votes
10y
Just like with the housing bubble, this is a supply and demand problem. The market is being flooding with near infinite demand in the form of $$$ available to students and families. The colleges - like any business - will charge as much as they can.
2 Reply
Sean Cole
Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
10y
Actually, the nation's debt has little or nothing to do with college funding. The real issue here is that college attendance is WAY up, meaning that each $ of federal funding sent to a university is split among more and more students, making the students pay the difference. http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2016/01/14/federal-education-funding-where-does-the-money-go
0 Reply
Bryan O.
Specialist · Lakewood, CO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Ben Leybovich you're looking at it from the wrong direction. Think of it as an investor... as the government investor. They are providing loans to people with no credit, no jobs, and frankly no clue what it means... but the creative investor in the government figured out that it is completely collateralized on the student's soul. They can never bankrupt it. Once in, they are in for eternity. And like a drug dealer to children they get them in young before they know any better. Passive streams of income? Government Win!
I agree with you. The cost of school is ridiculously overpriced. I don't think mine will be going to college on my dime until she has been out in the world a couple of years figuring out what her passion is and actually starting on some of the roads she might want to go further down. I would rather pay for 2 years of wandering the world for a lower cost than send her somewhere that will do nothing to broaden her horizons.
I do have my Master's, so I'm not just yelling ignorantly at an expensive system, I've been there done that and screw the t-shirt!
3 Reply
Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
10y
Too many of the youth today have had it drilled into their heads that higher education is the only option. There are way too many overeducated young people today with expectations far beyond what can realistically be expected. Oversupply has reduced financial compensation levels and technology has eliminated the opportunities afforded most grads.
Higher education is being used to avoid the realities of working for a living. It's a shame but most will be disappointed with their futures.
In our day we had hippies, then yuppies now puppies (poor urban professionals).
0 Reply
Rob McGahen
Pensacola, FL · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 51 votes
10y
I finished my MBA at one of the world's top 50 business schools nine years ago, and I still owe $60,000 in student loans (including undergrad).
In my opinion, there really is no point in going to college unless you are going to be a doctor, engineer or enter some other highly technical/specialized field.
Humanities, arts, business are all a waste of time and money, and many people (myself included), are only finding this out too late (unless you want to be a desk jockey for some big corporation).
1 Reply
Jim Shepard
Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes
10y
I would disagree that a college degree is useless. I got a degree in business 35 years ago and it opened many doors for me. The important part is what can you do with that degree once you've got it? A degree is pyschology or music isn't going to take you far in life. I started my own business 25 years ago after being in corporate America. I will admit that I only use probably on 7 or 8 of the classes (mostly accounting) but I don't think I could have succeeded without them. I think the important part to think of is the cost of the college degree. My 4 year degree only cost $6000 going to a state school. A new Corvette in 1980 was around $8000 as a comparison. Same school today is $40,000. A Corvette is now $60,000. I paid for my college expenses myself by having a 35 - 40 hour a week job and cleaning cars on the weekend. You have lots of energy when you are young! My advice? Get a USEFULL degree from a reasonable university and work your butt off!
1 Reply
Dan Schwartz
Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes
10y
Yep, wife and I both graduated from Thornton. We have absolutely no expectations of either of our children attending USC, unfortunately. Ben Leybovich were you at CCM when Doug Lowry was leading it? Great guy; gone too soon.
0 Reply
Ben Leybovich
OP
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Michael Totman:

Silly Ben, it's not the students who are paying these costs, the gubmint will get them through! Why would the student care what it costs, they'll just take a loan and then ask Hillary or Bernie to pay it for them.
That's harsh...
I would not be opposed to free education, actually -- in exchange for a number of years of community service. Want to be a musician - fine - here's a degree, now teach in the inner city for 5 years, and then go do whatever. Want to be a doctor - fine - here you go, now go work at a clinick for 5 years, and then go do what you want.
Thoughts, Michael?
0 Reply
Ben Leybovich
OP
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Abel Curiel:

The student loan debt crisis is yet another crisis swept under the rug in this country. Our nation's debt is the main reason why state and federal funding for colleges/universities has been cut significantly. So as all the expenses associated with running these institutions increases, the demand for funds increases. And if the state and federal governments cant afford to keep up with these expenses, guess who gets stuck with the bill!!??.... STUDENTS!!...
And the very sad thing here -- we are rendering higher education affordable for some of the most gifted, yet least financially fortunate, kids in this nation. Today, admission to college is a function of wealth more than ever...sad!
0 Reply
Ben H.
Investor · Jacksonville , NC · Member since 2015 · 143 posts · 54 votes
10y
So who pays for the "free" education?
0 Reply
John HornerPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Rob McGahen:

I finished my MBA at one of the world's top 50 business schools nine years ago, and I still owe $60,000 in student loans (including undergrad).
In my opinion, there really is no point in going to college unless you are going to be a doctor, engineer or enter some other highly technical/specialized field.
Humanities, arts, business are all a waste of time and money, and many people (myself included), are only finding this out too late (unless you want to be a desk jockey for some big corporation).
I totally agree with this. I think hiring for non-technical positions will change drastically in the future. Everything is available online now so college really is a waste of money. People (students) who are passionate about something will simply go learn on their own and be better then the students paying big bucks for it.
0 Reply
Adam Curry
Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 156 posts · 42 votes
10y
At some point moving forward, I'll be using the "cost of college" as a way to get more buyers to purchase multi-family properties. If parents would buy even a breakeven multi-family property the day their child is born, they would be able to offset some serious college debt down the road if they were to sell. And obviously, if they were able to find the right property in the right neighborhood, though the services of the right agent, (me, wink wink, haha) they would be crushing it. Once my first child is born, I'm buying a property on a 15 year loan, and naming it after them. I think I'd like to make them manage the property as well for 2-3 years before they are able to sell it.
Has anyone else ever had this thought as a way to pay for college?
1 Reply
Ben Leybovich
OP
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Dan Schwartz:

Yep, wife and I both graduated from Thornton. We have absolutely no expectations of either of our children attending USC, unfortunately. Ben Leybovich were you at CCM when Doug Lowry was leading it? Great guy; gone too soon.
Yep :)
1 Reply
Ben Leybovich
OP
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Ben H.:

So who pays for the "free" education?
Well - OK. My taxes will go up, and so will yours. But, my medical costs would come down, and so would yours. Costs of quality primary education would come down, and so would yours. Etc.
I think even Trump could agree on this LOL
0 Reply
Leigh Ann Smith
Manvel, TX · Member since 2014 · 309 posts · 127 votes
10y
Don't forget the college "arms race" as a contributor to the exorbitant tuitions. College A expands their stadium, so college B does the same. Ditto for fitness centers, dorms, and all manner of recreational facilities. When students tour campuses, they want to go to the one with all the best stuff.
Also, all colleges aren't unaffordable. Community colleges along with 2nd and 3rd tier state universities are pretty reasonable, but if a kid can get someone to loan him enough money to go to the big fancy school, he'll choose that most every time.
1 Reply
Dan Schwartz
Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes
10y
Adam Curry I've considered just that, down to the plan of having them work on the rentals. Haven't found the right combination of numbers yet though.
0 Reply
Jim Shepard
Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes
10y
We already offer a free college education available to every young person - join the military! I have no problem as a tax payer to pay for these brave men and women who defended our country! Who do you think will pay for the politician's proposed "free college"? The tax payers! I paid for my college and my kids - I don't need to pay for anyone else's. Think about it, if the ones that get a free education are successful, they will not only get to pay for their education but 2 or 3 or 4 others as well.
2 Reply
Dan Schwartz
Real Estate Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2012 · 874 posts · 648 votes
10y
Jim Shepard if you paid full-freight for your children, you were surely subsidizing some other students in each of your childrens' classes. Unless their colleges offered no in-house financial aid.
0 Reply
Tim Lindstrom
Investor · Douglasville, GA · Member since 2014 · 313 posts · 181 votes
10y
@Adam Curry,
I have a buddy who did just what you suggested. He bought 2 properties and put 15 year mortgages on them. His kids were 1 and 3 at the time, so it wasn't right when they were born.
I asked him why he didn't finance on a 30 year note, to bring down the mortgage costs, and he said he wanted them to be free and clear when his kids were ready to move on their own. They would each get a house, and if they went to collage, they could refinance them to pay for it.
2 Reply
Adam Curry
Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 156 posts · 42 votes
10y
@Tim Lindstrom, love it!
0 Reply
Michael Totman
Real Estate Agent · Berlin, MA · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 95 votes
10y
@Ben Leybovich it might be harsh, but isn't life harsh? It was also a bit tongue in cheek. Your idea is ok, but how is it managed? Do they earn a salary while they "work off" their debt? That would defeat the purpose wouldn't it? Pay them even more? At least they would be providing a service to the community though I suppose and for hopefully less than market rates since we paid for their degreee. But then they'd probably join the "fight for 15" movement... I don't know the answer and it's certainly longer than this forum would fit, I just wanted to laugh at your original post! Keep the good stories coming, I enjoy reading/listening to you!
1 Reply
DL Martin
Rental Property Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 292 posts · 280 votes
10y
Easy. They can earn a "salary" just like I earned a "salary" for three years in the Army.
Starting pay $573 per month and they included deluxe room and board. : )
Of course, you would need to adjust for inflation, from 1982 to 2016.
DL
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