Something is off...

Jerryll Noorden · 2016-03-03T09:00:59-08:00

All I have taken a few steps back to re-evaluate things.I am struggling with some fundamental issues here.OK the reason I have had so much success with my return calls is because I did NOT do the "tried and proven" techniques. You hear everyone say, "do not reinvent the wheel. We did all the trials and errors and we have seen that "handwritten letters " give the best results".The problem with this is that yes.. YOU have tried "whatever it is you tried", and from what YOU have tried , handwritten letters work best. But, did you try EVERYTHING? No. Of course not. So I did my own thing and indeed, my opening rate of letters was probably between 90 to 100%.So what is the problem? Let's be completely honest. Motivated sellers are not just some weird different species living among us. They are human. Like you and me. (well at least like you...)Ask 10 people this. If they got a letter in the mail that was sloppily handwritten with: " $ BUY $ your house at 123 Shenanigans Street".. in scary red horror movie ink, basically telling them " [add whispering voice to the following:" I know where you live... MUUUUWaaaauuuuhahahahaha ahum, sell me your house". ... yes of course they will think, "what the heck is this".and sure they are curious.Now ask your 10 buddies if they got a professional printed letter. Neatly done, company logo and letterhead. I think they will take that way more seriously, and if they got one of each letter in the mail... and I am a motivated seller... guess which one I will call first. No not the "what the heck" guy buying houses.. in cash, but can't even afford to buy a printer, and do a bit of actual effort representing his image! Because let's face it. You do look like an incompetent poombah if you try to make 15K with a yellow paper red marker scribbled letter begging me to trust you enough to make a deal.WHAT was I thinking!? And this I realize after so many handwritten letters. Ka kaolo pampa bos joeka friggin bosbana! (The best thing about being a foreigner is that sites do not censor your swearing in an other language).What sparked this rage?Well boys and gurlz, sit down. Uncle Jerryll will tell you a story.By mistake I sent 2 written letters to some old woman with a violent and technology retarded husband.I guess after the second letter they freaked out , called me up, asked me wt EF this was, and they will call the cops. Me being the awesome calm dude, say, sure feel free to call them, but please give me your address to remove you from my list. "I am not going to give you my address are you kidding".. (this after I sent a hand written letter to THEIR stinking ADDRESS).. you crazy nut!So they hang up, and 20 minutes later I get a call from an angry cop threatening me not to send anymore letters.The point here ladies and G's, I don't care if it is my right to sent letters or not.The point is this.A motivated seller is a motivated seller! Having a hand written letter is not going to make them more motivated. OK then what is the benefit of hand written?You will say, well it gives a personal touch, so they will choose you over the other people trying to reach them. WRONG!Hence my story above asking 10 friends their opinion about handwritten vs typed.Heck man. You are dealing with reaching motivated sellers. You are not trying to MAKE them a motivated seller. Your aim is to have them read the letter! Period. If they are motivated they will call you!I am not telling anyone that handwritten is a bad idea. I am just telling everyone it is a HORRENDOUS idea damnit! :)So what is the point of this message? Am I the only one that came to realize this?TO support this notion, think back. To the time when you knew nothing about real estate investing.Not sure about you but me, I did see those bandit signs with "I buy your house for cash". I was thinking wth is that. How can anyone buy your house for cash. I didn't understand how it worked, didn't believe it, and I just brushed it off. Now correlate this to the following.You get a letter hand written wanting to by my 500K house in cash, within 10 days. NO ONE will believe this that has never heard of real estate investing. And sure enough. Most of my calls are from people wondering how it is possible. And then I have to explain how it works.Thus inherently by default you are starting on negative ground this way. You are having people call you by creating doubt. So you start in the negative. You need people to call you by creating the positive.. i.e. you want to try to have people call you because they are convinced you are their solution. Not the opposite.So there you have it. A NASA scientist perspective in the logic of yellow friggin ka kaolo letters!Am I saying you will never get a deal from them? Not at all. I am just saying that you probably would have gotten the deal also if you had sent a normal civilized letter!

James Wheeler

High School Teacher · Pima, AZ · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 49 votes

10y

All I can say is ... Wow... tirade and rant warning...

Do yellow letters work? Yes

Do they annoy people? Yes

Do other letters work? Yes

Do they annoy people? YES

Can people be unreasonable? Yes

OK, so real estate investing is hard and it can suck because people... well that about sums it up - people... they are fickle and they do not like the idea of anyone knowing that they have what they have or did what they did, even if it is a matter of public record... as for the address of that couple, use their phone number from your caller ID to look them up... if that doesn't work, send them another letter... someone once said something about the fortune being in the follow-up... if they call back and are even more angry, explain that unless they identify themselves they cannot be removed from a list of addresses... as for your "angry cop" - get his/her badge number and precinct... then call the precinct and ask to speak with him/her ... when there is no such officer (as is likely) you can rest assured that people... if there is such an officer, request an in-person meeting at the precinct with both the officer and his/her supervisor (bring your information about your company, your processes and everything...) You will find that police are pretty nice people most of the time and when confronted with evidence and facts... they are usually pretty much just people...

All said, doi whatever works for you. I read once that there is nothing that is true until it is true for you (can't recall who that is from, I still like it). This means that YOUR truth is true because you experienced it, it may not be true for someone else... ie. what color is a rose? when I said rose, people thought of a rose - some pictured one, others imagined one some may have smelled one in their memory... what color was it? Most likely you thought of a white one right? NO??? you thought of the Green one??? Wait a minute, hold on... you aren't one of THOSE people... the ones who think roses are "red" are you?? See, truth is personal for many things... yes I know 2+2=4, always and that means that there is such a thing as universal empirical truth, however, most of our human arguments about "truth" are not empirical ones they are philosophical...

So what color are your letters? I personally like orange and pink... because yellow and white are so overdone...

~James

5 Reply

Cody Alexander

Real Estate Professional · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2014 · 205 posts · 87 votes

10y

@Jerryll Noordenam i allowed to agree and disagree?

Yes, yellow letters are absolutely the opposite of a professional letter. Do yellow letters work? Absolutely. Do they work for everyone? No. Yellow letters appeal to a certain prospect group. Typically on the lower end housing market. With $500k+ properties as you mentioned, you're right yellow letters may not be the right media.

However with that being said, yellow letters are not meant to be the only means of contact. That's why we offer so many options, and recommend a different mail piece each time. Yellow letters, professional letters, zip letters, text postcards, pictorial/full color postcards, greeting cards...etc, will all appeal to different people.

The bread & butter of yellow letters is a very short message that can be read easily and get straight to the point, some will like it, some won't. However some people will also throw a longer letter into the junk mail pile before ever reading the message.

The idea of direct mail marketing is to capture as many leads as possible. To do so, you MUST test different marketing pieces to find out what works best for YOUR target prospect group. Whether that be a combination of different pieces or the same mail piece multiple times, do what works best for you.

There is certainly no "magic letter", but stories like this are exactly why we recommend testing your market with different mail pieces.

I think its awesome that you've figured out what works for you, most "investors" quit before they ever get a chance to figure that out.

2 Reply

James Green

Wholesaler · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2015 · 459 posts · 245 votes

10y

@Jerryll Noorden, this is what you may call different strokes for different folks. As @James Wheelerstated basically everything works. I've used both, but I myself use them differently. I may do the ugly yellow letters with houses that are below a certain price point, and professionally typed letters with houses above a certain price point.

Yeah, myself I wouldn't send a letter written by a 5 yr old to a homeowner's house that is $500K,..but I Might to someone's house that is under $50K.

3 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

10y

Well exactly!

People are people, and as you mentioned, they can be fickle, bad mood, angry... THUS, my suggestion is to approach them to account for people characteristics. In my experience now and here, yellow letters have been absolutely horrendous, and what you confuse as a rant, is my reasoning and analyses for it. Of course I expect not everyone to agree with this.

But that is the point! I am sharing what I have come to learn doing it this way, and it makes sense (to me). I would never call some dude that put a handwritten letter in my mailbox promising to pay me $535,643.00 in cash within 10 days if I sign this scary "contract", when from the start the approach has been deceitful.

All red flags to me. Yes that is "just me".. but then again. all my friends chose the printed letter as well..

so I guess it is not so "just me" anymore...

As for your actions on the cop thing.. who cares?! Who cares if it was a real cop or not. Even if it wasn't real, and I know it was (I heard the owners arguing with the cop in the back ground) while on the phone, to go through such a charade to "get to me" still is alarming. This would not happen with an official printed letter.

But regardless, this is not supposed to be an arguing note fighting what is better or "what ever works for you after an elaborate message proving or disproving the previous writings.

Again, this is simply sharing my experience with yellow letters and I am not a fan of it anymore and was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences.

And FYI, starting a message with "All I can say is ... Wow... tirade and rant warning..." is very counterproductive for constructive communication.

You set the mood for argumentative interaction, which is... as I said counterproductive. Something you should be mindful of ;)

Cheerios.

0 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

10y

James, I think you are right.

I should have been more discriminative with the yellow letters.

A good lesson I didn't even think of.

0 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

10y

Cody,

That makes sense. I blindly wrote yellow letters without much research on the property. I got my list and started going at it.

I am still stopping the yellow letters for now, and going to give actual letters a go. I will see how that goes. I am curious to know how many angry calls I will get from those. I suspect way less than the yellow letters!

This is what I am trying to say.

Do yellow letter work? Yes and no!

If you got a deal with a yellow letter, I am CONVINCED you would have gotten it too if you had sent a professional printed letter.

No one will think " They sent me a printed letter, I am not going to choose them".

But on the other hand, it is very feasible to say "they sent me a handwritten letter?! Yeah... no thanks, I will deal with someone else".

So my argument is not whether you can not get a deal with a yellow letter. I am convinced you can do equally good OR BETTER without the yellow letters. I know this will make a bunch of yellow letter owners mad.

And if yellow letters works for you.. then use them! (I really dont care if you do or not)...

But this is not going to change my mind that yellow letters have been a complete waste of my time (so far).

:/

1 Reply

James Wheeler

High School Teacher · Pima, AZ · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 49 votes

10y

@Jerryll Noorden I am sorry to have offended you, the tirade you continue in your second post is quite interesting. Like @Cody Alexander and @James Green stated with properties over 500k the yellow letter is probably not the correct approach... I would say that I use Yellow Letters for Properties under 200K, and they are never an offer with a dollar amount, they are an introduction with contact information that allows the person getting the letter to feel that I am personally contacting them and offering to help, without being specific... just that I am interested in buying their house. Heck, I have found the best first letter is a postcard... then with about 5 touches, if I have had no response by touch 4 I will send a very professional letter asking to buy their house with my company letterhead in a standard envelope. Now over $900K properties, I may break out my linen paper for the "ultra" professional approach :-)

I think you can do whatever works for you and your business!

~James

0 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

10y

James, apology accepted !

0 Reply

Cody Alexander

Real Estate Professional · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2014 · 205 posts · 87 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:

No one will think " They sent me a printed letter, I am not going to choose them".

- I agree, the biggest problem with professional letters is getting them read. If it gets read and the motivation is there, BOOM you're getting a call.

So my argument is not whether you can not get a deal with a yellow letter. I am convinced you can do equally good OR BETTER without the yellow letters. I know this will make a bunch of yellow letter owners mad.

And if yellow letters works for you.. then use them! (I really dont care if you do or not)...

- Heck it doesn't matter to us which type of letter you use, we sell them all! lol

0 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

10y

But yes Cody, that is exactly right.

Two things!

1 is having the letter read, and 2) having them act on it.

Having the letter read has to do with opening the letter. It has to do with the visual presentation of the mail piece.

Once they open it, they are not going to not read it because it is printed.

They open the envelop they will read it! (even if to just see what it is about).

And that has not much to do with it being a yellow letter or not. And as I mentioned in my first post. I am doing something completely different and my open rate is upper 90 %

I even get lower 90% phonecalls from the letters,. problem is all complaining about the hand written letters.

Every single one starts with this " hey someone sent me a letter, a hand written letter....." it doesn't fail . All start this way.

As I said I am not trying to convince anyone to do or do not use yellow written letters. in fact I am not even against "yellow letters".

I am just turned off by "hand written" letters, whether they are on yellow paper or any kind of paper.

Also let me add to the 500K and above vs 100K and below approaches.

We as investors sure there is a difference between these properties, but as a motivated seller, to them, their 28K little shack is as valuable as a 800K mansion.

To them it is not like "ohh my house is a piece of crap, I am ok with the handwritten letters".

No!!

For them, if they are motivated they need to sell. They need to find someone that can deliver and thus they can trust. You just do not scream "trustworthy, and safe bet" with a hand written letter in red ink on a yellow piece of paper torn off a yellow notebook... (to me at least).... sorry.

I guess yeah, I am kind of targeting the yellow paper it seems. But I speak for myself. It just doesn't do it for me. Like I said, I think if you got deal from a yellow letter, I am convinced you would have gotten it as well (probably with less convincing needed that you are legit) with a pro written letter.

0 Reply

James Wheeler

High School Teacher · Pima, AZ · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 49 votes

10y

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:

If you got a deal with a yellow letter, I am CONVINCED you would have gotten it too if you had sent a professional printed letter.

No one will think " They sent me a printed letter, I am not going to choose them".

You may be correct, the problem is that people, especially the middle to lower income people, tend to prefer the personal touch over the corporate touch (in my experience), they are more willing to negotiate a fair offer with an individual than with a "big bad company trying to stick it to the little guy." Heck, I even take my 5-year-old with me when I go look at a property that needs the "personal touch," it makes a connection with the homeowner, especially the Mom's and Grandparents who own homes and need to sell. It makes me, and by extension my company, real... we are not just a company, we are people who are trying to help... like our company slogan says "Turning Houses into Homes." We take problems and convert them into opportunities. Do I lie to people, not at all, I will tell them that I plan on Redeveloping or Redesigning their house, that I plan on reselling it also - but again to make this "house" into a new "home" for another family... So Yes, I might have still gotten the Deal, but I may lose out on the relationship... I might get the deal, but at a higher price...

OK, so I did go there... I said the "R" word... relationships, this business is all about relationships, I remember there was one property that I really would have loved to get and renovate, I got to know the family and even was able to negotiate them down to $10k for the property as it was (needed about 50k in rehab), the deal fell apart because of title issues that the owner did not even know about (ex-husband stuff), at the end she was crying because she felt she had done us a disservice by not being able to sell the property. She felt bad because her ex-husband had put a loan on the property she had no idea about and then defaulted on it... Oh, the original asking for the house was 38K... Relationships, build them, nurture them... even if the deal sours they can still pay off later in referrals or friends. Not sure which is better so I will try to get both out of the deal... ;-)

~ James

0 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

10y

James,

I agree with this, but your points do not touch my issue (I think).

The letter , postcards, whatever you use is to initiate contact. Positive contact!

Once they contact you and you deal with them they are not dealing with a big robotic business. They are dealing with you. You can come over as you want to come over, the little guy or the big business.

At that point it is up to you, yellow letters pro letters.. they are out of the picture.

My message was about that initial contact. Not how you deal with them after that contact.

You as a distressed seller get 2 letters. One handwritten on a piece of paper in red ink, and one pro letter.

Regardless if the house in question being a 4K house or a 2M house.

2 letters. The seller would more likely call the pro letter. Definitely. They may call the hand written letter too, just to see how much some dude would offer.. (maybe thinking he doesn't know what they are doing and maybe make a high offer as a mistake) but they will definitely call the pro letter.

If you were in foreclosure and or any situation where you needed to sell your house. Will you honestly care who is going to offer you money?

No, you just care about whom ever it is, are they really going to offer me money, and is it real.

So it comes back to the image. Would you go for some guy that dropped a handwritten "note" on a torn off piece of paper in your mailbox? Or would you choose a company that seemingly has done this a ton of times before, that looks professional and trustworthy with experience.

False or not, a company seems less likely to be scamming me than some dude off the streets claiming he can "buy my house in cash when he can't even afford a printer".

Listen, I know what you are all saying. I understand your points. I just think you all are holding on to "what works for you" without any actual comparison or validation of this.

And this is what I am afraid of... and the point of it all... Yes for many yellow letters worked. But of course it will work if the seller just got one letter at the right time... without other options to call anyone else. How do you know that was not the reason the yellow letter "worked"? It could be just simple luck. Luck is all fine but relying on it is not! Or how do you know they didn't also call the pro guy but he just was a horrible people person and then as a last resort called the yellow letter guy? You don't know this... so you can't claim, "ohh yellow letters work".

Yellow letters never made sense to me, but I did it because all the gurus and everyone swears by them. Which is a very bad reason to do anything! Always use your own common sense!

But ok this is not meant to turn into an argument battle about pro and con of yellow letters.

I am just learning from my experience and sharing it for the newbies and others interested in reading.

But there is one way to come closer to find out. I will now send pro letters and do it my way! and I will see what will happen..

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