Hi, I'm Gabe(22)! My 1st post & does this look like a deal?

Question

Hey everyone,

I joined BP over the Summer but this is my first post so I'm really excited and ready to meet and learn from you all! I'm always open to tips and new ideas! Help is always welcome and is greatly appreciated, thank you so much!

Introduction. My name's Gabe Trieu, I'm 22, and I'm a starting real estate investor from San Diego, CA. I'd like to start out wholesaling and get into buy and holds and rehabs later when either, these deals come my way or when I get more experience haha I'm a real estate investor by theory but not by experience (yet)! I'm new so please excuse and correct me if I misuse terms, thank you! I'm about to graduate with a BA in Criminal Justice at SDSU and I want to be fully submerged in real estate investing right after the semester ends (17th of this month, dec). I'm really excited to learn and get started!

My Experience and What I've done so far. Regarding experience, I have the knowledge I've been picking up since Summer with my mentor(uncle). I listen to BP and NLP (no limits) podcasts (esp. 90 Days: Do or Die series) and I also attended an REI convention in Anaheim awhile ago. In addition, I attended a 1 month real estate course at Keller Williams Realty. I've read a bunch of books including, the Fix n' Flip series by Armando Montelongo, the 2 year plan by Jay Decima, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and a couple books from Dale Carnegie on handling people.

I've been doing a little bit of work such as helping my mentor with some minute contracting fixes on some of his properties (painting walls, changing electrical outlets, fence-building, etc.), putting out bandit signs in Santee, El Cajon, and Serra Mesa along with some posting on Craigslist. We did some 'driving for dollars' but I have not conducted a direct mailing campaign yet. I just ordered a mailing list (non owner occupy and at least 40% equity, mainly single family) yesterday night from yellowletters.com and I'd like to have yellow letters sent soon.

This'll be my first time doing this so I'll keep you guys posted!

Is this a Possible Deal? When browsing around Zillow, I found a mobile home in Santee with a sales price of $120,000 and a zestimate of $204,341. The specs, it's a 2-2, built in 1980 and 1,440 sq. ft.; The mortgage and tax are estimated to be $616 and the rent is estimated to be $1,745. After considering mortgage and tax, it comes down to $1,129. Then, from multiplying this number by 12 months, I get $13,548 total. Now, from dividing the initial sales price of $120,000 by this new number of $13,548, I end with a 8.8573% return.

Considering numbers alone, I think this looks pretty good but I'd like to know what you guys think of this! Please check my numbers and possibly let me know if/how I can go about making this deal work if it is one. To me, this looks almost 'too good' but maybe it's because it's a mobile home, there may be possible problems with it, or because I haven't pulled comps yet. I don't know much about these types of properties so I'm wondering if this is something that I could possibly start working with. Again, please let me know what you guys think!

Thank you so much for reading my post and I'm happy to be here on BiggerPockets!

Best Regards Always,
-Gabe T.

Emma Chen · Answer

Hey @Gabriel Trieu, as a newbie in real estate investment, I am not able to answer all your questions because I am still learning. I will try my best. I think either 50% or 70% rule can be used when you see a listing and decide if you are interested. It will give you a bold part about the deal. When it comes to offer stage, you need a detailed financial analysis for the deal by deal. If you are gonna buy and hold, the deal can generate positive cash flow is good enough in San Diego or in other cities. Hope it helps. Emma

Gabriel Trieu · Answer

@Emma Chen thank you and welcome to BP! And very nice, I'll look into that! Yes, described in the posts above, the 50% rule was referred to me in the context of finding a property for a buy and hold. Aside from the mobile home idea, I'm trying to figure out what's considered a 'good' deal in San Diego (regarding single family, detached) and what guidelines I may need to follow in order to make the price appealing to reassign a property quickly as a wholesaler but simultaneously, making a nice paycheck. I hear a lot of people follow the 70% rule(w/ cost of repairs) when wholesaling but isn't it usually the case that we reassign the property to a contractor and not so much to an investor looking to buy and hold? But considering they could also fix the property themselves, as a wholesaler, do I need to additionally consider using a formula to calculate cash flow on the property or is this something that is completely exclusive from wholesaling a property using the 70% rule?

Emma Chen · Answer

Welcome @Gabriel Trieu , I am new to BP and live in San Diego too. For financial analysis, you can search single family proforma online to find a spreadsheet template. I do a lot of financial analysis for multifamily deals. Here is general info: Income= Scheduled rent-concession-vacancy+other income

Expense= management fee+ property tax+ HOA(if applicable)+utility + mortgage+ repairs & maintenance + turnover cost + miscellaneous fee

Cash flow= Income- Expense

Hope it helps.

Expense= management fee+ property tax+ HOA(if applicable)+utility + mortgage+ repairs & maintenance + turnover cost + miscellaneous fee

Cash flow= Income- Expense

Hope it helps.

Gabriel Trieu · Answer

*accidental duplicate

Gabriel Trieu · Answer

@Ned Carey thanks for the tip! I agree that you'd need a bunch of homes to make decent cash flow, given you only make 100$ per month per unit. But when you say 'single family,' are you talking about a single family/one unit in a multi family dwelling or a single family residence (detached)? *please correct me if I'm misusing terms!

@Dev Horn ah, I see; I didn't know that they depreciated. Thank you so much for telling me this! And very true, I preferably rather work with a detached single family residence than a mobile home. But hey, if it makes me money, then I'd be interested haha. I was briefly talking to someone yesterday about manufactured homes being 433a(?) and that the land comes with the home. Is this case something that also depreciates or it's treated differently than a mobile home? Yes, I do agree that there is a lot of competition in those areas. However, when you mentioned leads in directly dealing with home sellers, how do you get leads like this without the competition? I just started my first yellow letter mailing (non owner occupy, X?40% equity) yesterday, so is this what you mean by directly dealing with home sellers?

@Stefan K. thanks for the info! Are mobile homes something that should only really be dealt with when it comes with land too? Going back to what I asked Dev (and if I'm using the term correctly), are 433a homes easier to deal with and do they depreciate like conventional mobile and manufactured homes? And thanks again for the site suggestions!

Stefan K. · Answer

@Gabriel Trieu be very careful looking at the Zillow value and rent estimates for mobile homes. It's important to look at the actual comps. Find other mobile homes of on similiar plots of land in the immediate area that have sold recently. I start with the last 6 months sales and then expand out the timeframe and/or geographic area a little if it's tough to find something comparable.

I research mobile homes on their own land that will be auctioned off at tax deed sales in Florida and I can't tell you how many times Zillow has said the property and land are worth 3-10x what you might actually be able to sell it for and the rent numbers are double what other similiar properties rent for. The Zillow numbers can be way off due to single family stick built houses, townhouse, etc. being used in the calculation. Do your own comparative market analysis for the value and check rent on sites like padmapper, hotpads and craigslist.

Hope that helps and good luck!

Dev Horn · Answer

It depends. Most investors avoid mobile or manufactured housing because these assets are generally considered to be DEPRECIATING assets, like a car - they lose value over time as they are used and gradually "worn out". Single family homes are almost always treated as APPRECIATING assets that increase in value over time and are generally maintained (or can be repaired to be) in a condition similar to when they were originally constructed.

Personally, I think a manufactured home is a more like a single family home than a mobile home, but many investors will have nothing to do with them so just be careful. You're much better off buying traditional single family housing is areas where there are good comps to justify the estimated value.

And, in general, it is VERY difficult to find deals on the MLS or via publicly-available websites (Zillow, Craiglist, etc.). The pros in this business generate their leads directly with the home sellers. MLS and public websites generate too much competition and you'll almost never be able to get properties at a good price via those sources.

Ned Carey · Answer

@Gabriel Trieu Many that buy multi unit buildings want $100 month cash flow per unit, but for single family that is $1200 a year. That is a lot of homes to make a living. I would say for multi family $200 net net net would be more realistic.

However everyone is different with different goals and needs. One factor not talked about much is the risk of leverage (financing). How much is your net vs your mortgage payment. If you are only earning $1200 a year, it doesn't take much to put you into real trouble. The term banks use for this is debt coverage ratio.

@Robert Taylor in addition to the post by Brandon already mentioned, there are many threads here on the 50% rule. Some of these posts will describe the specifics of where this rule comes from. - Ned

Gabriel Trieu · Answer

Hey @Dev Horn I found this on Zillow this morning along with a bunch of others like this and I decided to ask more about it. I just checked and this property is on the MLS as a manufactured home. So yes, it's a mobile home. From your response, are mobile homes really that problematic? What sort of trouble can they have?

Thanks @Justin Fraser, I just watched it! This definitely helps! According to Brandon, he mentions that when he uses the 50% rule, he goes for a minimum cash flow of $100 per month per unit but aims for $200 per month per unit. Is this considered a 'good' cash flow? What do most people go for?

Justin Fraser · Answer

Hey @Gabriel Trieu and @Robert Taylor you should check out Brandon's post on the 50% rule- it's a great rule of thumb to use when quickly evaluating properties. I use it to screen out duds before doing a full in-depth analysis on a potential property.

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2013/06/14/50-percent-rule/

Hi, I'm Gabe(22)! My 1st post & does this look like a deal?

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