Deal Structuring for Free and Clear Property

Deal Structuring for Free and Clear Property

Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2013 · 20 posts · 10 votes

Hello BP family. I'm working on my first deal after about 3 months of marketing, and need some advice on whether it is worthwhile. This lead in particular was generated via my high equity absentee owners list (500 names), purchased from Listsource, and mailed by Jerry Pucket and his team at NRI LLC. I'm in no hurry to "make a square peg fit in a round hole." My expectations are set appropriately, and my current strategy/budget is for marketing to 500-1000 absentee owners consistently for the next 6 months, regardless of securing my first deal or not. The following is an overview of the interaction between the seller and I, as well as my actions taken so far.

On the first phone conversation with Mr. Seller, I spent the first 15-20 minutes building rapport, and basically listening. He's a math professor nearing retirement, working full-time teaching at the local community college to help pay down debt. Most of which is student loan debt. The only motivation that I could pick up on during the discussion was that he and his wife are worried about the amount of debt they have, the monthly student loan payments, and retirement right around the corner. I took notes, filled out my seller information sheet, and scheduled a follow-up phone call in 24 hours with Mr. Seller, so that I could do my research on the property.

The property is in my local Charlotte market, and is your typical bread-and-butter 3/2 brick ranch built in 1962. Square footage is 1825. Last tax appraisal was 2012 for $101k. Estimated ARV is $78k. The comps are all within 1 mile, and sold in the past 9 months. I have not checked title yet, nor sought a recent appraisal/inspection, but will do so if I can find a creative solution for Mr. Seller.

Mr. Seller purchased the property from two of his wives siblings through probate. His has been making monthly payments to the siblings, and the property will be free and clear in November. The original intent of Mr. Seller was to purchase the property, fix it up, and sell to his son. An estimate of about $15k of renovations, including a new roof, major systems, and interior were completed prior to allowing the son to move in. The agreement between father and son, was that the son would live rent-free for a short period, and ultimately purchase the property at some time in the future. No contract, deadline, or guidelines were established. The pay-off from the son was to be used for debt repayment and retirement for the parents. As the situation sits currently, the son has "disappeared to the beach" and is no longer interested in purchasing the property. Mr. Seller does not know if he son will be returning, and has no problems clearing out the house and selling. He is adamant at not becoming a landlord, however.

On my follow-up call to Mr. Seller, I wanted to further establish our relationship and test his motivation level. After allowing him to speak more about his pains in commuting across the city to teach, and discussing the inefficiencies of the educational system, I asked Mr. Seller what is the amount of money that would solve is problem(s). $115k was his number. I knew immediately that I could not get to that number. In my head I was thinking around the $50k range, but I did not counter with this number to Mr. Seller. I did not want damage the trust and rapport I had established so far, by throwing such a low number out there. I did, however, counter with a statement followed by a question:

"Mr. Seller, I understand that $115k is the number that will make all of your problems go away. That number, however, is far above what the market will bare at this time. Perhaps sometime down the road you might could get that price for your property, but right now the market is just not going to produce that return for you. I still think there's a solution for you Mr. Seller. I'm aware that you and your wife have an emotional connection to this property, and are not ready to give it away for pennies on the dollar. I am also aware Mr. Seller, that you're tired of driving across Charlotte during rush hour, and teaching in a system that doesn't adequately prepare our children. That you would love more than anything to get rid of your debts, lessen the burden of those monthly student loan payments, and retire in the next few years with integrity. Mr. Seller, I'm not sure if I could even do this, but if I could come up with a solution that would give you the price that you want for your property, but at the terms that would make it mutually beneficial for me, would you be interested in that?"

Mr. Seller answered "yes," so I wrapped up the conversation and scheduled a call for early next week with some options.

So here I am BP family. I have a luke-warm motivated seller, who is open to negotiating terms at his price. I need advise on some potential ways to structure the deal. I was thinking something along the lines of a solution that gives Mr. Seller a little money upfront, or maybe some each monthly for his student loan payments, and a final payout in 2-3 years of the $115k. I'm not really sure. In any case I know that this a valuable learning experience, and I will be writing up and delivering a contract regardless. Just for the sake of practice, lol.

Thanks to everyone in the community in advance for their feedback!

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  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    13y

    Ryan,

    Offer the seller $20K cash down for him to finance the deal.

    Joe Gore

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    13y

    @Ryan Norman

    What is your goal with this deal? As in what is your exit strategy for it?

    Across the top it says Wholesaler but with talking about paying the guy off in a couple years sounds more like you want to keep the thing long term.

    If the intent is to wholesale it'll never happen unless you move it to a landlord and the payments are low enough that it will cash flow great since they will be buying into a HUGE negative equity position. Really the terms would have to be fabulous to get someone to buy it.

    Given your description it doesn't sound like it needs that much work so I assume on a rehab that the $78K is pretty close to the ARV even if you or someone else spiffed it up a bit, clearly not even close to his $115K.

    Even if you want to hold it you have to see what the rents will be for you and you will have to again get GREAT terms since you will be so deep in the hole you can't sell it if you get in trouble.

    I'd try to give him as little down payment as possible since you have to put about 33% down just to be at a 0 equity position.

    I'm sure you will have to give him something up front (Though maybe not) but don't give anymore that you absolutely have to. I'd then try to get him to finance the rest at the 1.91% on a 9 year amortized loan.

    1.91% is the Oct 2013 IRS minimum annual rate for a loan with monthly payments and a term between 3 and 9 years. To go over 9 years the minimum rate is 3.5% so keep it at 9 years.

    This will give you a monthly payment of $1159.80 (This is assuming nothing down so a $115K loan) and you will be putting close to a grand towards principle from the first payment. Even with that huge principle paydown you will be a full 3 years in before being at your estimated current market value. Maybe the place appreciates. You obviously hope it would but there is no sure bet there.

    Even with those kind of terms the place still doesn't look like a great deal to me.

    So the big questions to figure out are:

    1) How much lower will he go on the price. Really that is SO far over market that it is pretty much impossible to polish that turd.

    2) How little will he take up front. Doesn't have to be $0 down, but has to be close unless he comes down to at least close to market price.

    3) Will he accept a super low interest rate. Again unless the price gets more reasonable you need to have damn near ever penny you give to go towards principle.

    4) Will the proposed payment cover his student loan payment? If not it will be really unattractive to him I'd guess.

    5) What is the market rent? Will you even be able to cover that payment? Maybe but I doubt you are coving all of your other operating expenses.

    If the guys payments are a lot lower then maybe you do these terms with a 20-30 year amortization with a balloon in 9 years. Brings the payment way down for you at just under $420. Of course you will never be above current market value during the loan, and will actually still be about $8K below when the balloon is due. Again you hope it appreciates, and in this case it HAS to or you won't be able to get out of the loan unless you have the cash to make up the difference.

    BTW the stuff about the loan rates and length with IRS guidelines may be off the mark. I know that there are guidelines for loans for friends and family to be considered legit loans. This is based on that info that I had for these types of unsecured loans. For unrelated parties doing a mortgage type note (and if selling to you as a company a commercial note at that) this stuff may not apply. Talk to your own accountant for guidance but maybe some wiser person like @Bill Gulley can say what the deal is.

    Anyway regardless of that specific point, I already have you at a 1.91% rate and it isn't a good deal. Taking it all the way done to 0% doesn't change it that much.

    He really needs to drop that price a lot or you should just stay away from it.

  • Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2013 · 20 posts · 10 votes
    13y

    @Joe Gore I will throw that down payment at him and see if he bites. From our early conversations I got the since that he wants to take a large bite out of his debt. I don't think he's motivated enough yet, but I'll give him something to think about for the next few months.

    Thank you for your input.

  • Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2013 · 20 posts · 10 votes
    13y

    @Shaun Reilly

    I am indeed most interested in wholesaling deals. Right off the bat I figured this was not a good wholesale deal, but thought that there might be a potential to assign to a buy and hold investor. As you said, the gems would have to be very attractive though. You've given me some great homework to complete, and thank you for taking the time to paint the picture for me. As a newbie, pinning down exit strategies is a skill I haven't quite developed yet, so thanks for highlighting that critical point.

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ryan Norman:
    @Shaun Reilly
    I am indeed most interested in wholesaling deals. Right off the bat I figured this was not a good wholesale deal, but thought that there might be a potential to assign to a buy and hold investor. As you said, the gems would have to be very attractive though. You've given me some great homework to complete, and thank you for taking the time to paint the picture for me. As a newbie, pinning down exit strategies is a skill I haven't quite developed yet, so thanks for highlighting that critical point.

    @Ryan Norman

    If your hope is to assign it to a Buy and Hold investor I would highly recommend figuring out what the market rents are and talk to some local guys about what would make it something that they would want.

    Different areas will have different mindsets for the investors. Personally unless the thing was a cashflow monster I would not be interested in this deal at even the best of terms since you are getting into a deal that is 50% underwater on day 1.

    By this I mean say something like market rent is $1800 using the 50% rule you'd have an NOI of $900 a month. If you can get my ridiculously low interest rate on the carry back financing with the 30yr am and 9yr balloon you have a payment of $420 for a cashflow of $480/month.

    For that I might go for it.

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