First BP Member Property for Sale in Bitcoins only?

Question

I recently listed my fourplex for sale in BitCoins (BTC) ONLY. No USD accepted. It is the first property exclusively for sale in the Bay Area with BitCoins only (as far as I can tell), and only one other seller on Craigslist "considering" accepting BitCoin in the Bay at this time. I am dead serious about selling under the terms of the listing.

I will provide a 2.5% discount to the quoted price for BP members. Check out the listing, and an updated BitCoin price at the link below. Has anyone else on BP listed their property for rent or sale in BitCoin yet? I'm well aware of the volatility of the currency, and would convert to USD immediately (in fact, require in the contract for the buyer to pay for the conversion at the then-price - although accepting BTC only.) I know I'm still going to get a bunch of posts about how only fools and suckers talk about or think about accepting BTC.. But it can be converted immediately, so the buyer is responsible for the USD delivery cost in this case..

My BitCoin Property listing: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bar/4233978601.html

Current Sale price in BTC: http://bitcoinexchangerate.org/c/BTC-USD/650000

You can send offers to the email in the link, or directly message me on BP with any offers. I will not be considering offers below the specified BTC price in the listing at this time. A big thank you to @Michaela Graham for inspiring this sale in BitCoin. If anyone knows anyone interested in purchasing property in BitCoin, please forward the link or let them know. Thank you!

Jon Holdman · Answer

If you were seriously wanting to make this a bitcoin based sale you would price it in bitcoins and not dollars.  You're simply using bitcoins as the unit of exchange.

Your proposal is equivalent to a seller saying "I'll accept only euros, but my price is USD 650,000"

Account Closed · Answer

I'll be honest and say bitcoin has confused me a ton since I first learned about it.  No amount of reading or asking questions has clarified it for me yet.

That being said, I'm curious about your proposed bitcoin real property sale compared to a cash sale.  Assuming you use a title and escrow company, they are set up to accept a wire transfer or cashier's check in USD from your buyer and then disburse funds in USD to you. At what point does the bitcoin become USD? Or are you planning to do the sale without the benefit of escrow and title?

I've never experienced a title/escrow company needing to verify source of buyer's funds.  However, they do require ID and tax reporting info of both  individuals and entities. Since escrow services require a cashier's check or wire transfer from the buyer (and some no longer even accept cashier's checks), they have removed themselves from the "source of funds" question.  Banks are required to report all cash deposits over a certain amount (or any suspicious cash transactions) to the feds.  The feds decide what to investigate further.

So, true cash real property sales have risks/issues with bank reporting.  And bitcoin deals don't seem to make sense when using title and escrow. Since I may be understanding your intent and/or bitcoin, feel free to correct me!

Michaela G. · Answer

Maybe also put it onto Craigslist in Beijing? ;-)

Just checked Beijing and it's full of American real estate for sale

Michaela G. · Answer

Awesome! I love it that you saw the opportunity and are willing to give it a chance.

I'm not sure I'd be willing to put one of my Atlanta properties on the market. I want to hold on to them for a while, but I'm thinking.......

Jon Holdman · Answer

AFAIK the seller has no responsibility to verify the source of the funds.  IDK if title companies have requirements to do something.

OTOH, if you show up at the bank with $650K in cash and deposit it there will be paperwork filed and you may have to explain the source of the cash.  So, if you convert the bitcoins into USD and then wire them into your bank, that may trigger questions.  In theory bitcoins are anonymous, so you wouldn't be able to provide any information about the source of the money.

Jon Holdman · Answer

My point is that a European seller would price the property in Euros.  Just like hotels in Europe.  Me, as the consumer, has to accept the exchange risk and adjust to dollars to figure out how much a property or hotel will cost me.  The seller then uses the euros they receive as their actual currency.  They don't convert it to dollars.  You are simply saying the seller (who is much more likely to hold dollars than bitcoins) has to convert dollars to bitcoins when you will immediately convert back to dollars.

J. Martin · Answer

Kristine Marie Poe , I think you're pretty spot on with your observations. Frankly, I'm surprised it's so easy to get cash into the system through buying real estate. Beyond filing a "SAR" for the initial cash deposit, not much checking of the flow of funds from the original source to the real estate (at least in theory..), beyond the name on the bank account where the wire is coming from.

For now, I think the bitcoin transaction would be difficult through title and traditional escrow, although there are some bitcoin escrow companies popping up. I'm not sure about their legitimacy yet. You would probably have to settle it with an attorney, do the bitcoin exchange at whatever the exchange rate is right at close, and leave the buyer to engage in any title insurance process they see fit.. Again it's more marketing sizzle.. By now, there have been many properties listed for bitcoin, but I haven't seen news of any sales consummated yet. (Of course, they could be keeping it anonymous as possible.)

The most expensive legitimate thing I've seen sold so far for bitcoin is a Tesla Roadster..

Troy Fisher · Answer

Did you get any hits?

J. Martin · Answer

@Jon Holdman , you are exactly right with all these things, except that my target market with this listing is not for the average buyer that has USD. It is targeted towards those "unusual" folks who bought in or were mining coins back when they were $5-10/coin or less, may have a distrust of the government and doesn't want to do currency conversion directly through a bank. Or a foreign buyer who doesn't want to get too public with it. Again, people with a lot of BTC are familiar with variable BTC pricing, so they don't think of it as unusual like you or I or a guy in Germany would if you were taking a variable Euro rate. It's a whole different market/pricing structure..

But I have another question for you since you're probably done lots of cash deals. Does a seller or their agent have any responsibility to verify that the source of the funds from the seller did not come from something illicit, like a bank typically does? Beyond showing the bank you received a wire for $650K for the sale of your property, are you responsible for documenting where the buyer got their funds from? Appreciate the tips.. Thanks!

J. Martin · Answer

It's a bitcoin-based sale. Only accpeting bitcoins, and current price is

928.57142 BTC

as of the time of this writing. I included a link so a buyer could see the current price. Most bitcoin listings for products and services have constantly fluctuating prices because they are fixed in the seller's currency, but quoted in real-time Bitcoin (BTC). Sounds unusual for most, but it's a common form of pricing for those who purchase in BTC. The important thing is that it's typical for that market, like most things in real estate.. You're right about the EUR/USD conversion. But Euro is old news and no one would care, and BTC is the flavor of the month and has sizzle + some unusual people have lots of it and may want to remain anonymous while converting to hard assets..? Marketing gimmick? Absolutely. But so was Branson announcing Virgin would accept it for space flight deposits, and tesla was bought with it,  etc etc

First BP Member Property for Sale in Bitcoins only?

Most Popular Reply