All Forum Posts by: Ned Cavasian

Just spoke to my handyman again and he is just adamant that the lighter laminates even with all these granite like markings just get discolored from tenants or whatever and the dark is much better for rentals and still looks good with white cabinets.  He has sort of worn me down.  On the other subject, off the main topic of this thread, regarding the stainless appliances availability mentioned by a couple people above, I did have a little difficulty finding some new ones and I did not want to mess used ones given a very limited supply and me being an out of state landlord.  I agree though that you should be able to get great deals on white appliances that are used since so many people trade those in.  I did not think the stainless used was worth doing given the prices and limited options.  With used if I was local I would look at date codes and I know a lot of this used stuff, especially in stainless is 8 years old or more a lot of times.  So , I don't think it is a good deal unless you are flipping personally.  I'll be you can get some white ones that are much newer for great prices used though since there are so many being traded in.  Personally, I don't get the huge attraction they say tenants have to stainless.  If I was a tenant a nice kitchen with nice white appliances would be fine with me and way easier to care for.  I was too scared to buck the stainless trend though so didn't do it this time.  Again, though that was off topic and really still wondering if anyone agrees with my handyman about darker laminate being the way to go for long term maintenance if both fit the colors scheme in the kitchen and assuming either will work nicely from that perspective.

The tile/grout I have is almost identical to the picture with the light countertop that I posted at the start of this thread.   I think either of the two granite looks that I posted would work since one is mostly black and one is white with some gray and beige in it (although the beige doesn't show much in the photo of the lighter one).   I've been leaning toward the lighter for the reasons @Sharlene Mulchandani mentioned and because of my tile color but my handyman who works on a lot of rentals has me freaked out that I'll be sorry in a couple years for not going with the darker laminate.  The lighter laminate is Typhoon Ice from Home Depot.  Here is a cut/paste of the color.   I think that the beige will pick up beige in the tile (maybe) and the gray will go well with the stainless appliances while keeping the kitchen bright/cheerful.

My handyman says black is much easier to fix scratches and stuff in because it is dark and because it is more uniform even considering that they make a color matched fixer touch up thing for this above lighter color.   The black is from Lowes and is called Midnight Stone Etchings.  This is what it looks like:

The black will look good to and will go fine with the tile as well, maybe even better.  Is just a different look, more sleek, less cheerful in my opinion.  Don't know if there are a substantial number of women who won't want such a dark countertop in their kitchen or if the lighter one truly will start looking discolored from whatever tenants do to things (put hot plates on them, stain them somehow or whatever).   Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? (i.e. lighter granite looking laminate getting discolored or potential tenants being turned off by black countertops)?

I'm updating a kitchen in a B- type rental ($1300 3/2 condo in orlando FL area).  I'm painting the older wood cabinets white , adding stainless handles/hinges, replacing all the old appliances with stainless.  I'm going with laminate countertops and trying to decide between a light white/gray type granite look laminate and a black with some gray.  Does anyone have experience with one being more broadly desirable to renters than the other or one being less prone to show wear?   My handyman swears I should go with the black because it will not show stuff nearly as easy but I"m not sure how true this is with the newer laminates or if black turns off some people due to it being more cold.  Here are a couple of pictures of the countertops I'm trying to pick between.  The second picture needs to be thought about with stainless appliances, not white.  Again, the question is twofold.   Attracting the widest pool of tenants and what will hold up best over time with B/C class tenants as far as wear.

I was all sold on the LVP (lifeproof or comparable).  However, I just did a scratch test myself with pergo outlast plus laminate vs lifeproof LVP vs lumber liquidator brand lvp vs nucore lvp (Floor and Decor brand).   It was really no contest.  The pergo laminate was way better than the others.   Has anyone else ever tried this or have any similar experience?  So for me, I'm worried about scratches with tenants more than having purely waterproof floor.  Maybe this is just a laminate vs lvp thing and laminates are better scratch protected due to their nature or something.  I have heard someone say but this test was pretty clear to me.   Anyone else have any real experience based info on this?  (and please don't just comment on wear layer thickness because that is not the key in the scratch test.    The top vinyl companies even with thinner wear layers that use aluminum oxide or ceramic beads will outperform just a thick urethane wear layer from the knock off brands when it comes to a scratch test).  The only real way to know is to try it.  I tried it using a quarter (coin) on samples.

I've actually never seen cabinets where the wall cabinets are a different color than the base cabinets.  I was thinking that if I refinished these I would just go with all white or all gray or something else. 

@Vicki Clark and/or @Catherine Emert what color would you suggest for all one color and if I do two colors (assuming I decided to refinish).  I don't really think the area is small but the part allocated to cabinets is just fairly compact.   So, I would just paint a color or colors that is most attractive to renters.  I don't think I need to try to make the kitchen look larger.   Assume I add stainless appliances and a granite or marble looking laminate countertop if I do go this route.  I've been thinking white is versatile but boring on these flat old cabinets and another color might look better.  The kitchen is sort of separate from the rest of the house so no worry about it having to be coordinated with other rooms.  Gray is popular but might just be trendy and again have never seen it on these kind of cabinets.  I have seen people paint them colors like green for example but of course that can be risky.

I just evicted a tenant and need to fix up a townhouse to rent in the Orlando fl area (Altamonte Springs to be exact).  These 3/2 townhouses rent for around $1300 - $1500 in normal times.  This one was rented for $1300 when I acquired it a year ago for 100K.  It is a decent school district and safe neighborhood.  Monthly condo fee is $340 (for pool, etc)  so that gives an idea of the type of property/investment.

I have to do something with the kitchen cabinets/countertop.   See pictures.   I am out of state.

Option 1:  My handyman in the area (who I trust) gave me a quote.  I imagine I can get the hinges and door knobs cheaper than he found them but even so this is still a lot of money to sink into what will still be an outdated kitchen.   The quote was around $1400 to sand and refinish the cabinets and put all new hardware (hinges and knobs) not including hardware.  The hardware he quoted was around $400 for knobs and hinges but i know I can find that a lot cheaper than whoever quoted him. He also quoted adding a missing narrow cabinet (on the right side of the stove) for $300 (includes the cabinet).  So his total quote was 2K approx and with cheaper hardware maybe it could be $1850 or something.   However, this just sort of puts lipstick on a pig.   This are the old this flat faced wood cabinets that were built in place.

For the counter/sink replacement that was around another 1k for laminate or 2k for granite if he did the work.  Counter must be replaced.  It is cracked.  So that brings the total up to around 3k for this.

I can't really make a decent kitchen with this small space with off the shelf stuff at home depot, at least not the plywood casing stuff (too many pieces need to be ordered) so I had them do a design with their woodcraft.   That design without countertops came to about $6500 after tax not including install and counter tops / sink.  My handyman can do the install for about 1K and adding the 1k for laminate would be $8500.  Still waiting on how long it would take to get this stuff.  Probably 4-6 weeks I'm guessing.

Handyman thinks he can get cabinets cheaper through some local places that orders direct from China but that takes 4-6 weeks.

The advantage to just cleaning up the current cabinets is it saves money and gets the place ready to rent much faster but is a good chunk of change to just keep an old kitchen presentable.  

I'm also having to spend a for all new appliances including washer dryer to that is about 3k.  If I replace old carpeted flooring that could be 3-5 since it covers about 1000 sq feet too. I could leave the carpet and just clean it if doing the lower end renovation I guess.   Then painting is another couple thousand and that has to be done.  2 bathtub refinishes is about 900.    HVAC is ancient so at any time that could be 4 or 5K but don't need that now.

The one plus is that Orlando is a fast growing area.

Desperately seeking thoughts on what experienced rental property investors would do in a similar situation. 

Dividend investing still is buying stock and dividend stocks get hammered in bear markets and corrections just like non dividend stocks.  The best dividend payers may be similar in bear markets but you need to have the confidence that when the value of the stock goes way down you can sleep at night.   Real estate is tied more to the economy than market value, etc.  There is obviously some correlation between the stock market and economy but the idea is to try to diversify and believe doctors are plenty aware of dividend stocks.  They are trying to diversify.  Even REITs are stocks and can be volatile with the stock market.  Yes, over time you can look and see good returns and maybe better than real estate investing but it can be more volatile and scary drops can happen over night and out of nowhere.   I don't like having everything in stocks (REITs and Dividend paying stocks are still stocks) because of the emotion that can cause huge swings in the market.  I do want some investments stock market though.   The people with money want to diversify not just pick A or B.