New Wholesaler: Dilemma and Thoughts

New Wholesaler: Dilemma and Thoughts

Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 8 votes

Hello. I'm new to the forum but not particularly to Bigger Pockets. I have been lurking but have decided to get involved because of me and my wife's desire to begin real estate investing. My focus will be wholesaling and it is a focus. I do not and have no desire to buy and hold and I'm not particularly interested in doing fix and flips at this time. Wholesaling works better for my long term goals.

However, the one thing I'm seeing is almost an aversion to wholesaling. There is a sense that it's not that great or more it's like the red-headed step-child of real estate investing. To be honest, that's one reason I want to get into it; to figure out the ethical, honorable, and lawful way to do it and do it successfully. To be “that guy” that does it right through and through.

I live in Toledo, Ohio. In my research, I found that Ohio is cracking down and I can understand why. I'm convinced that to wholesale correctly, lawfully and ethically, it's better to get a real estate license, especially in my state. There are other reasons I have listed. I wanted to get around that by legitimately getting my real estate license before I do anything but now I'm betwixt two. I don't know if I can wholesale without splitting everything with my broker. I can't become a broker out the box but the reason for getting my license was to do wholesaling so I can disclose upfront what kind of agent I am, not to list homes in the traditional way or to represent myself as a buyer when, in fact, I'm not. However, you have to have a broker sponsor you in order to get your license. 

My question is do I, in fact, have to split my wholesale fee with the broker? Is this on a broker by broker basis which each broker having different criteria (I'm assuming it is)? Anyone a real estate broker or real estate agent who would have an answer to these questions?

Thanks ahead of time. God bless.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y

@David Washington worrying about broker split means U have not researched broker splits.

one of our BP members has a REal estate company in Toledo called List and Sell real estate.

he charges flat fee of 199 a month and you keep 100% of what U make.. how can that be too expensive to be in the industry licensed and legal.

@Tim West no disrespect but wholesaling is NOT a profession.. its simply the wild west with all sorts of actors .. from really bad to nice and good. No one monitors them .. no associations.. no peer presure to do the right thing  actually the opposite.

some of the tidbits I see from wholesalers offer this kind of advice.

1. Ghost ads to build buyer list

2. Never disclosing your not acutally the buyer ( biggest fraud on the planet in my mind)

3. Subject to your partners approval  partner being your Labrador retriever.

4. Setting up inspections that are really potential buyers.. ( again just flat lying to sellers)

this is why this is such a stain on the whole real estate industry.. these are the techniques taught to folks who either lack moral compass or just plain don't care and its all about the benjimans to them.

as you know in your state working with anyone is foreclosure the laws are intense on who and what you can do.. does that stop people no..

advertising a home bed bath etc that yoiu do not own is basically illegal in all states period. Just read the regs.  friend of mine in Oregon got a big fine and cease and desist doing this.. Neighbor turned them in..

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Rob Rice:

    Here we go again.  David....Listen to me closely........

    WHOLESALING IS NOT ILLEGAL!!!!

    MISREPRESENTING YOURSELF OR YOUR INTENTIONS, LYING, CHEATING, STEALING AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE IS ILLEGAL!!!

    IF YOU DO THOSE THINGS, YOU WOULD BE A SCUMBAG, THEN YOU DESERVE WHATEVER YOU GET!!!

    NO YOU DON'T NEED A LICENSE TO DO IT!!!

    Just remember.  You are not selling a property.  You are assigning your equitable interest in the property.  The purchase and sell agreement gives you that right.

    If you want to get your license, do that.  Just understand that you are legally bound to your responsibility to the public and your Broker house.  

    There is no way around that, and rightfully so.  That is the way it works.  There is nothing wrong with getting your license, just understand what you are doing.  

    Also if you start wholesaling, understand what you are doing on that side also.

    Here is an article that I wrote that would serve you well if you are serious about being a wholesaler.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/7384/47278-ans...

    I just went ahead and reposted it below.

    Can you please explain to me how finding a seller, finding a buyer, drawing up agreements, obtaining a deposit, sending the deal to a title co, organizing closing, getting a commission check

    Is not practice real estate without a license?

    Are you guys delusional?

    Chapter 3
    Application of the Act and Penalties

    § 455.301. Unlawful to conduct business without license or registration certificate

    It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, to engage in or conduct, or to advertise or hold himself out as engaging in or conducting the business, or acting in the capacity of a broker or salesperson, cemetery broker, cemetery salesperson, campground membership salesperson, time-share salesperson, builder-owner salesperson, rental listing referral agent or cemetery company within this Commonwealth without first being licensed or registered as provided in this act, unless he is exempted from obtaining a license or registration certificate under the provisions of section 304.

    § 455.302. Civil suits

    No action or suit shall be instituted, nor recovery be had, in any court of this Commonwealth by any person for compensation for any act done or service rendered, the doing or rendering of which is prohibited under the provisions of this act by a person other than a licensed broker, salesperson, cemetery broker, cemetery salesperson, campground membership salesperson, time-share salesperson, builder-owner salesperson or rental listing referral agent, unless such person was duly licensed and registered hereunder as broker or salesperson at the time of offering to perform any such act or service or procuring any promise or contract for the payment of compensation for any such contemplated act or service.

    § 455.303. Criminal penalties

    Any person who shall engage in or carry on the business, or act in the capacity of a broker, salesperson, cemetery broker, cemetery salesperson, campground membership salesperson, time-share salesperson, builder-owner salesperson, rental listing referral agent or cemetery company, within this Commonwealth, without a license or registration certificate, or shall carry on or continue business after the suspension or revocation of any such license or registration certificate issued to him, or shall employ any person as a salesperson or cemetery salesperson to whom a license has not been issued, or whose license or registration certificate as such shall have been revoked or suspended, shall be guilty of a summary offense and upon conviction thereof for a first offense shall be sentenced to pay a fine not exceeding $ 500 or suffer imprisonment, not exceeding three months, or both and for a second or subsequent offense shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree and upon conviction thereof, shall be sentenced to pay a fine of not less than $ 2,000 but not more than $ 5,000 or to imprisonment for not less than one year but not more than two years, or both. 

  • Wholesaler · Douglasville, GA · Member since 2014 · 72 posts · 63 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Chris Purcell:
    Originally posted by @Rob Rice:

    Here we go again.  David....Listen to me closely........

    WHOLESALING IS NOT ILLEGAL!!!!

    MISREPRESENTING YOURSELF OR YOUR INTENTIONS, LYING, CHEATING, STEALING AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE IS ILLEGAL!!!

    IF YOU DO THOSE THINGS, YOU WOULD BE A SCUMBAG, THEN YOU DESERVE WHATEVER YOU GET!!!

    NO YOU DON'T NEED A LICENSE TO DO IT!!!

    Just remember.  You are not selling a property.  You are assigning your equitable interest in the property.  The purchase and sell agreement gives you that right.

    If you want to get your license, do that.  Just understand that you are legally bound to your responsibility to the public and your Broker house.  

    There is no way around that, and rightfully so.  That is the way it works.  There is nothing wrong with getting your license, just understand what you are doing.  

    Also if you start wholesaling, understand what you are doing on that side also.

    Here is an article that I wrote that would serve you well if you are serious about being a wholesaler.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/7384/47278-ans...

    I just went ahead and reposted it below.

    Can you please explain to me how finding a seller, finding a buyer, drawing up agreements, obtaining a deposit, sending the deal to a title co, organizing closing, getting a commission check

    Is not practice real estate without a license?

    Are you guys delusional?

    Chapter 3
    Application of the Act and Penalties

    § 455.301. Unlawful to conduct business without license or registration certificate

    It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, to engage in or conduct, or to advertise or hold himself out as engaging in or conducting the business, or acting in the capacity of a broker or salesperson, cemetery broker, cemetery salesperson, campground membership salesperson, time-share salesperson, builder-owner salesperson, rental listing referral agent or cemetery company within this Commonwealth without first being licensed or registered as provided in this act, unless he is exempted from obtaining a license or registration certificate under the provisions of section 304.

    § 455.302. Civil suits

    No action or suit shall be instituted, nor recovery be had, in any court of this Commonwealth by any person for compensation for any act done or service rendered, the doing or rendering of which is prohibited under the provisions of this act by a person other than a licensed broker, salesperson, cemetery broker, cemetery salesperson, campground membership salesperson, time-share salesperson, builder-owner salesperson or rental listing referral agent, unless such person was duly licensed and registered hereunder as broker or salesperson at the time of offering to perform any such act or service or procuring any promise or contract for the payment of compensation for any such contemplated act or service.

    § 455.303. Criminal penalties

    Any person who shall engage in or carry on the business, or act in the capacity of a broker, salesperson, cemetery broker, cemetery salesperson, campground membership salesperson, time-share salesperson, builder-owner salesperson, rental listing referral agent or cemetery company, within this Commonwealth, without a license or registration certificate, or shall carry on or continue business after the suspension or revocation of any such license or registration certificate issued to him, or shall employ any person as a salesperson or cemetery salesperson to whom a license has not been issued, or whose license or registration certificate as such shall have been revoked or suspended, shall be guilty of a summary offense and upon conviction thereof for a first offense shall be sentenced to pay a fine not exceeding $ 500 or suffer imprisonment, not exceeding three months, or both and for a second or subsequent offense shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree and upon conviction thereof, shall be sentenced to pay a fine of not less than $ 2,000 but not more than $ 5,000 or to imprisonment for not less than one year but not more than two years, or both. 

  • Wholesaler · Douglasville, GA · Member since 2014 · 72 posts · 63 votes
    9y

    To be honest with you Chris, I asked myself that same question when I first got started back in 2004.

    I was trying to wrap my head around the same thing. I went to my REIA and spoke to Lawyers, Agents, CPA's, Brokers, Lenders, Police Officers, City officials, Detectives, etc. You name it..I spoke to them making sure that I was not getting myself in trouble. I was going to get my license even though all them told me that It was legal.

    Here is grey area when it comes to wholesaling....

    You are not selling a property.  You are assigning your interest in an agreement.  That is it.

    Your intent is to purchase that property.  The agreement spells out clearly what will happen if you don't buy it.  Most of the time it would be losing your earnest money.  Whether your a licensed Real Estate Professional or not, you have the right to sign an agreement that basically sais ... "I want to buy this"... property, this car, this boat, this land, this pair of shoes, whatever.  

    That is where the law has its hands tied.  If you tell a person they cant sign an agreement to purchase real estate, and assign that interest to someone else, you basically have taken the people who created the laws that we follow out of business.  You have also opened up the argument for getting a license in the area of buying and selling anything that has value.  

    What if I said to you... Chris you can't agree to buy a house for your family to live in, and sell it to make profit unless you get your real estate license...  That would be crazy.

    Remember.. Intent is the key word.  No wholesaler should be out there lying to people saying that they are going to buy someone's home personally if they don't intend to.  No wholesaler should be saying that they own a property when they don't.  You need whats called equitable interest to do that.  That is the only thing the agreement does.  You need to let people know what your intentions are by verbal communication and also in the agreement.  If someone agrees to those terms and signs a legal agreement to that affect it is a personal agreement between two parties, and nothing else.  I didn't make the laws, and I didn't create the way this business is done.  I just made sure through professional legal advice that I don't break any laws.  That is it.  No more than that.

    It is my hopes that all wholesalers out there take time to learn how to do this business legally, morally, and realize that your business success is in direct proportion to the amount of service that you offer to others.  You are not here to take advantage.  

    To be honest wholesaling isn't really investing to me.  It is really just participating in transactions that utilize the that grey area I discussed.  

    Have a good one.  

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    9y

    @Rob Rice

    I understand what you're saying.  It's a good argument - I guess it would just take a pissed off seller or buyer and you'll find yourself in front of the RE Commission - and then it's up to them to decide what you were up to (i.e. how you marketed the property).

    I love wholesalers BTW - I'm started to buy myself and they basically do all the legwork.

  • Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2015 · 233 posts · 135 votes
    9y
  • Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 8 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Adam A.:

    Been done already. I did that way early in the thread which is why this thread is beat to death. Nothing to see here. Let's move on.

  • Real Estate Agent · Commack, NY · Member since 2008 · 110 posts · 42 votes
    9y

    @davidwashington I would suggest working with private sellers, not agents. As a newbie, it will be easier for you to deal direct with private sellers and  off market deals are more attractive to investors. You can purchase vacant property leads, work with fsbos, bandit signs, expired listings, craigslist...

    To answer you question about paying the realtor, they get their commission from the deal, so there is no need for you to pay them as they are already getting paid. If you wanted to give them a little something you could.

    Good luck!

    Knowledge + Action = Results! Never Give Up!

    Jennifer

  • Business Owner · Wisconsin Dells, WI · Member since 2017 · 38 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    It's so easy to avoid the "wholesaling problem" in Ohio that it's kind of funny people let it hold them back. Don't fall for the propaganda and the fear tactics. 

    The problem is that people market properties that they have no intent to actually purchase. Change that by using things like transactional funds or subject-to to purchase and sell as you normally would. 

    I think assignments are a great way to start out, everyone hates wholesalers until they bring them a good deal, so get good deals.. and if you have to, because some realtor in Ohio got jealous when they saw what a wholesaler was making, just double close. 

    I am not an attorney but I sure do work with a pretty expensive one. 

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