Closing Attorney won't let seller sign contract

Closing Attorney won't let seller sign contract

Wholesaler · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 10 votes

Hello BP,

I recently started looking for new ways to grow my wholesaling business and started placing ads on Craigslist in different markets I had a knowledge of, one being in Upstate New York.

I had a seller contact me with a property she needed to get rid of because it was becoming a burden. It's a multi-family unit built in the 1800's but has not been worked on since the 80's. I estimated it needs about $70k in repairs and the offer we verbally agreed upon was $60k. Looking at comps in the area the property can bring in $2k/month in income being close to a college town and to Poughkeepsie. ARV is $225k.

I overnighted a contract to her and she then told me she would take it to an attorney. The attorney called me and said she would never let someone sign a contract like this. This is a contract I got off of BP's File place and used before in California but the attorney said it is not valid in New York state and the contingency's are ridiculous (assignment, taxes, inspection periods, etc.) and she won't let her client sign it.

I need some input from other wholesalers, and/or buyers on how to salvage this deal and at least walk away with something from a very motivated seller.

Thanks

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Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
11y

It is likely in the best interest of her client not to sign the contract you have provided them. The attorney is protecting her client which is why the client hired her.

Have the attorney prepare a new contract.

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  • Mark B.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Morgan Hill, CA · Member since 2012 · 212 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    I would ask for specifics as to why it's not valid in NY, have them point to specifics in the statute. As for the contingencies, I would point out that they can be all over the place depending on the market. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    It is likely in the best interest of her client not to sign the contract you have provided them. The attorney is protecting her client which is why the client hired her.

    Have the attorney prepare a new contract.

  • Investor · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2011 · 24 posts · 18 votes
    11y

    Sounds like a normal attorney response. New York and California are 2 of the states in the handful that have lots of regulation. You probably need a New York specific contract to comply with any weird New York laws. 

    Also one contingency is usually all you need, if any, other than the normal ones like title and financing. Sounds like all you need to salvage the deal is a better New York friendly contract. I seem to remember that New York uses attorneys to close deals instead of title companies so you probably need to find an investor friendly New York attorney on your side to close the deal.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Atlantic County, NJ · Member since 2012 · 514 posts · 209 votes
    11y

    Do whatever you gotta do to close it. Like stated above I would call every single attorney in the state and find one to communicate with the sellers attorney. If it's a good deal stick it out. Even if you can't close it the experience alone will help in future deals. Good luck!

    Nathan

  • Real Estate Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2011 · 60 posts · 17 votes
    11y

    Hey Keith,

    I agree with Mark, each state is different in what is allowed. To give you an example. In PA I can wholesale a property with a simple 2 page Sale and Purchase agreement and assign it with a one page Assignment contract. I wanted to expand to wholesaling in Florida. But, after speaking with an attorney I found out my contracts were useless in Florida. Florida requires a standard 33 page (if memory serves) real estate contract with special language just to put the property under contract. The Assignment is another 14 page (if memory serves) document. After meeting with her for over an hour, she dropped the bomb. She told me another attorney in her firm was just finishing up a case filed against an investor for wholesaling properties in FL. She thought the verdict was wholesaling was found to be not legal due to the fact the wholesaler does not own the property when they sell it to the end buyer. I spoke to a local investor group and kinda got the same take on it. More trouble than what it's worth is what I was told.

    Now I never did any wholesaling in FL, and the market segment I wanted to go after was the probate market. So I can't know for sure if this is all true or not but, it does show just how different 2 states can be so different in the requirements of their contracts.

    Regards,

    Keith Saunders

    P.S. If anyone can confirm or deny the information I was told about wholesaling in FL I would appreciate it.

  • Investor · Fayetteville, NC · Member since 2014 · 916 posts · 190 votes
    11y

    Most likely you grabbed a very generic contract fill of fluff. You should get your own attorney in NY to review the contract and make it more based off of your needs. Cover your tail before someone can come after it bro.

    Don't be cheap with the law, it won't be cheap on you...

  • Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Keith Agnello You used a freebie form from BP and it didn't fly with an out-of-state attorney?  Imagine that!

    Attorney has realistic client control and more influence over seller than you, in this case.

    Reduce your deal basic terms into about 7 essential line items, such as:

    1) Consideration

    2) Terms

    3) Possession

    4) Inspection 

    5) Title

    6) Escrow

    7) Buyers vesting

    Now that you've spooked the attorney, it will be harder to close. They gotta wanna.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Keith Agnello 

      if its just the contract the attorney has heart burn with... She probably can't represent both of you find another local attorney to write the deal for you. Start with  a letter of intent then let them fashion a final binding contract.

    If the attorney thinks your skimming her clients equity that's another issue.

  • Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Keith Agnello

    The attorney has a fiduciary duty to protect his client's best interests. A generic contract form will often fly by a distressed seller but seldom gets by a seller represented by legal counsel. 

    Get an attorney to draft a contract form for you or ask the seller's attorney to send you his version.

  • Wholesaler · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    Thank you everyone for the feedback. I understand the attorney is just doing her job and Im not at all upset with the seller with obtaining the service of an attorney but Im sure like plenty of people on BP have experienced, it is frustrating when someone holds up a good deal because of their lack of understanding of investing and more specifically wholesaling.

    I will be on the phone tomorrow contacting attorneys in order to get the correct paperwork needed and get this deal done.

    Thank you all for your guidance

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    Just remember some attorneys charge by the hour. They love to find things in PROTECTING their clients to run up the fees.

    There are good attorneys and bad just like any profession. We have a saying in the business that attorneys can be "deal killers". lol

    How to win attorneys over

  • Wholesaler · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 10 votes
    11y
    Joel Owens thank you for the advice and link. Yes,ego in itself can make or break a deal whoever you're dealing with.
  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    Keith, I'd just ask her attorney to provide a state specific contract. She will take out the silly contingency stuff, that's fine, tell her you are assigning the contract if you don't find it acceptable to you. At this point, another contract from another attorney will still end up going back to her for approval, you could spend a week going back and forth and never getting a deal but legal fees.

    That's what happens when you use contracts devised by layperson investors playing attorney,

    Consider that wholesaling is a popular place for newbies to begin and being beginners they, as a group, have the least knowledge as other RE operators. Many who do advance find out quickly that selling systems, contracts, mentoring or coaching in wholesaling is a great way to get newbies hooked in wholesaling while profiting off of them. They still didn't learn legal aspects or gain more RE knowledge, they just work a system. More are marketers than RE operators. The strategy is full of poor advice and uncommon or voidable contracts.

    If you're going to try to deal out of state, the first thing to do is understand that state's requirements. As others have mentioned, contracts are state specific, that means you can't just pull someone's idea of a contract off the internet!

    IMO, you have poisoned the well with your crappy contract with that attorney, to get that property you will  have to go through her, so she is the one to sell on the idea. Admit your oversight, and ask her for help that can be acceptable to both of you. If you can't do that, I'd say you got an expensive experience from your loss as to dealing prudently. Next time you'll know. Good luck :)

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    @Keith Agnello The attorney is not holding up your deal due to their "lack of understanding of investing or wholesaling".  The attorney likely knew what it was long before you heard of it.  The simple truth is, your contract is not in the best interest of the seller, and the attorney knows it.

    @Keith Saunders Florida law doesn't require Any specific contract.  The standard Realtor FARBAR contract is 11 pages.  As far as the legality of wholesaling, specifically assigning, it seems to be swinging against.  It really doesn't affect me either way.  I would be interested in reading anything you have about specific prosecutions/violations though.  Feel free to PM or email me. Thanks.

  • Raleigh, NC · Member since 2011 · 721 posts · 343 votes
    11y

    I like all of the suggestions mentioned.  Also, maybe get a contract from an investor in that area.

  • Westchester, NY · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    I'm pretty new in the game, but from my understanding basically all NY transactions are preformed with standard NYS contract. Any changes or deviations are taken care of in the rider.

    You can find copies at :

    http://www.nycbar.org/media-aamp-publications/real...

    Hope this helps but please keep in mind, I am not an attorney and I am providing no legal advice.

    Good luck with the deal!!!!

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    Umm I haven't heard the obvious answer.  "Well send a counter offer."

  • Professional · Glenview, IL · Member since 2015 · 114 posts · 65 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

    It is likely in the best interest of her client not to sign the contract you have provided them. The attorney is protecting her client which is why the client hired her.

    Have the attorney prepare a new contract.

     James nailed it! Local attorney will get you what you need. You may want to butter up the attorney a little with your request ;)

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