Housing crash deniers ???

[Greg R.]

Unfortunately I've been away for a few months while taking care of some personal matters, so I haven't been able to keep up on discussions. 

However, several months ago there were ample amount of folks here insisting that a market crash/ correction was impossible and that prices would only continue to increase.

Curious if there are still people out there who feel this way? If so, I'd love to see some data that supports your view that the market isn't going to crash/ correct. 

[Greg R.]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

[Greg R.]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

@Michael Wooldridge

You going to stand by your buddy James here and claim that I'm the troll? lol

[Greg R.]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Let's play a game here... spot the problem w/ James post & claim @Carlos Ptriawan

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 Exactly how does that make any sense to you? And you say it with such snark. 

3 months = 1 quarter. You said prices have DROPPED for 7 consecutive months. The chart above, the details quarters, it CLEARLY shows INCREASE not decline. That 7 consecutive months your saying, that's 2+ quarters. 

So Mr Snark, care to explain that riddle. Your giggling saying of course the quarters go UP because each month is DOWN. In what parallel reality does that make sense? UP = down now? 

Your making an azz of yourself, repetitively. So again, you clearly invented a statement from thin air. Then I just post the ACTUAL REAL data and ask you to explain. And you launch personal slander and idiotic statement that makes 0 sense what-so-ever. 

Just stop lying, why is that so hard Greg, just stop lying. You easily enough could have said "huh, well look at that" but no, you take a FALSE statement and double down with a ridiculous justification that a toddler would wince at and say "really, come on man, really". 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Let's play a game here... spot the problem w/ James post & claim @Carlos Ptriawan

 Claim? What "claim"? This is a data feed from FRED, there is no "claim" it's called REALITY Greg. 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

WTF, your such a nutter. 

You said last 7 months consecutivly. It's math Greg, math. What was 7 months ago? And at that time the data shows INCREASE. I WISH FRED showed more recent but it doesnt. So here, I am trying to dig for all RECORDED DATA I can to show that data FRED doesn't show yet. 

AND I already posted for Twin Cities market of the current month to month #'s showing CLEARLY INCREASE. Others who have market feeds, would be nice to see them post from Infosparks of there market #'s, that would help greatly, get the direct feed data. 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

[Greg R.]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

I'm going to try to respond in simple terms to give you the best chance of understanding. I never said "twin cities". I Provided data for Minneapolis. <<<--- Read this sentence twice. 

Now, below is median sold data per the MLS & public records for MINNEAPOLIS - NOT Twin Cities . Per this data June was the peak with a sold median price of 360k, and as of December the median sold price is 305k.

If your argument is that Redfin's reporting of data from the MLS and public records is inaccurate, please post your evidence.

Again, provide evidence that a publicly traded real estate company with a market cap of $665,000,000 is lying to the public with their reporting data. 

I'll keep an open mind. If you provide evidence, I'll stop citing data provided by Redfin. 

[Greg R.]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

I'm going to try to respond in simple terms to give you the best chance of understanding. I never said "twin cities". I Provided data for Minneapolis. <<<--- Read this sentence twice. 

Now, below is median sold data per the MLS & public records for MINNEAPOLIS - NOT Twin Cities . Per this data June was the peak with a sold median price of 360k, and as of December the median sold price is 305k.

If your argument is that Redfin's reporting of data from the MLS and public records is inaccurate, please post your evidence.

Again, provide evidence that a publicly traded real estate company with a market cap of $665,000,000 is lying to the public with their reporting data. 

I'll keep an open mind. If you provide evidence, I'll stop citing data provided by Redfin. 

Here is exhibit b, data from realtor.com. Numbers aren't identical, but it shows the same in terms of June/July being the peak, and declines since then. 

So here are two very reputable sources showing a peak in June/ July, and price declines since then. 

Again, provide evidence that both realtor.com and redfin are providing inaccurate reporting data. 

[Greg R.]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

😂😂😂 Per realtor.com today... "Nationally, median home list prices dropped about 11% from their peak over the summer"

Waiting for @Michael Wooldridge

[Adam Christopher Zaleski]

Original post is from 5 months ago (August 2022) and was referencing housing crash deniers from a few months ago (May 2022). I own rentals in Fort Collins, CO, Fort Myers, FL and Koloa, HI. I have a primary home in Pueblo West, CO. 

I have yet to see any data that is showing a decrease (year over year) in any of my markets. Fort Myers, FL is up 30% (Nov 2021 to Nov 2022). Fort Collins is up 9.1%, Pueblo West is up 9.7%. Koloa is up 63%, but this is based on 4 homes. If you take it to the county level, Kauai County is up 37%. 

I'm sure some markets are seeing declines (Boise, Austin, etc...). However, I'm not seeing any declines in sales price in my markets. 

[Chris John]

I know I've pointed this out, but I still think the comparison should be price per square foot.  To me, with low interest rates and easy money, that's a great time to trade up into a larger house.  With higher interest rates, I'm thinking that more smaller houses are being sold.  So, are we seeing a price drop because houses are actually getting cheaper or are more smaller houses selling which makes it look like prices are coming down?  No idea. 

I'd like to see @Greg R. and @James Hamling come up with competing sets of data and argue about it though!  haha.

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Chris John:

I know I've pointed this out, but I still think the comparison should be price per square foot.  To me, with low interest rates and easy money, that's a great time to trade up into a larger house.  With higher interest rates, I'm thinking that more smaller houses are being sold.  So, are we seeing a price drop because houses are actually getting cheaper or are more smaller houses selling which makes it look like prices are coming down?  No idea. 

I'd like to see @Greg R. and @James Hamling come up with competing sets of data and argue about it though!  haha.

 I don't believe a person could get an accurate market read from per unit sqft because there is a whole range of potential impactors which can adjust per unit sqft, each varying in different regions, markets and sub-markets. 

For example, new con. is going to show a downsizing in sqft vs some existing stock due to production cost impacts. Although pre 80's homes trend to smaller and smaller finished sqft just due to the social norms of the times. 80's too early 2000's commonly had unfinished sqft with new built units, again due to social norms of the time. 2000's saw a significant shift in this too total finished sqft in unit production. So there is a whole back-story of building trends over the years that will impact the per sqft price as much as market actions. 

FRED has a depth of data analysis on housing all over the U.S. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/ca... feel free to play with it and check things out. Unlike some others who like to use feeling statements, I prefer data. 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Adam Christopher Zaleski:

Original post is from 5 months ago (August 2022) and was referencing housing crash deniers from a few months ago (May 2022). I own rentals in Fort Collins, CO, Fort Myers, FL and Koloa, HI. I have a primary home in Pueblo West, CO. 

I have yet to see any data that is showing a decrease (year over year) in any of my markets. Fort Myers, FL is up 30% (Nov 2021 to Nov 2022). Fort Collins is up 9.1%, Pueblo West is up 9.7%. Koloa is up 63%, but this is based on 4 homes. If you take it to the county level, Kauai County is up 37%. 

I'm sure some markets are seeing declines (Boise, Austin, etc...). However, I'm not seeing any declines in sales price in my markets. 

Exactly. 
But now OP has shifted his statements for the umpteenth time saying no-no it's "coming". And things like market is going down "coast to coast". Or that I am a nutter for using actual data from NAR or FRED vs his statements that the sky is falling. 

But like you said, this post started months ago, saying it's "denial" if one says the R.E. market is not "crashing". Well, has it "crashed"? 

"Crash" is not "a" decline month over month. Nor is a "crash" a 10-15% decline over a year+. All one has to do is google "market crash", it has a definition, there is no such thing as what a person chooses it to define. It has a definition, that's how language works. And by the definition there has been no "crash", there isn't one in progress, nor one on the horizon. That's not my opinion but simple facts of data and math. 

[John Warren]

@James Hamling I agree 100% there is some bad/uninformed data on this thread. Someone who is a moderator should really flag these posts. Chicago prices are UP not down. This is a direct shot from Info sparks from the MRED MLS that all of us Chicago agents use. Looks like the whole MSA is up 5.6% YTD so yeah.... what a terrible place to invest (insert eye roll).

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

I'm going to try to respond in simple terms to give you the best chance of understanding. I never said "twin cities". I Provided data for Minneapolis. <<<--- Read this sentence twice. 

Now, below is median sold data per the MLS & public records for MINNEAPOLIS - NOT Twin Cities . Per this data June was the peak with a sold median price of 360k, and as of December the median sold price is 305k.

If your argument is that Redfin's reporting of data from the MLS and public records is inaccurate, please post your evidence.

Again, provide evidence that a publicly traded real estate company with a market cap of $665,000,000 is lying to the public with their reporting data. 

I'll keep an open mind. If you provide evidence, I'll stop citing data provided by Redfin. 

 Lol, ok guy. This is the very definition of "Selective Data" and "Distortion". 

Minneapolis is "A" city in the Twin Cities MN market. Sorry if THE MARKET data does not meet your pre-chosen outcome. I believe THE MARKET data is a whole lot more accurate and reflective than 1 city, who was under military occupation/security, given rampant RIOTS, Police Stations being burned to the ground, mobs running the streets for weeks on end, months really. We had highways blocked by riot mobs. Entire business districts of Minneapolis looted bare. Has the Real Estate market in Minneapolis suffered..... ah DUH. Would you like to live in Baghdad? No, neither do a lot of people. 

Minneapolis has lost about 50% of it's police force on top of all this. There is decent places in Minneapolis, a lot of pro's, but yeah it's got some extreme force factors to it buddy. 

But hey, what do I know, I am only based here in Minneapolis area, work, invest, buy, sell, advise here, I am sure some IT guy 2000 miles away knows oh-so-much-more in his selective data on the subject. (THAT's how you do snark, fyi).  

[Greg R.]

Quote from @Chris John:

I know I've pointed this out, but I still think the comparison should be price per square foot.  To me, with low interest rates and easy money, that's a great time to trade up into a larger house.  With higher interest rates, I'm thinking that more smaller houses are being sold.  So, are we seeing a price drop because houses are actually getting cheaper or are more smaller houses selling which makes it look like prices are coming down?  No idea. 

I'd like to see @Greg R. and @James Hamling come up with competing sets of data and argue about it though!  haha.

Great idea Chris. There could be something to the price per Sqft angle. Not sure how to get that data... any suggestions?

And there are no competing sets of data. There is me producing current monthly sales data from the MLS and public records (via realtor.com & redfin), and there's James who produces quarterly data from Q2 2022 and then tries to pretend that those are current market data sets 😂

[James Hamling]

Quote from @John Warren:

@James Hamling I agree 100% there is some bad/uninformed data on this thread. Someone who is a moderator should really flag these posts. Chicago prices are UP not down. This is a direct shot from Info sparks from the MRED MLS that all of us Chicago agents use. Looks like the whole MSA is up 5.6% YTD so yeah.... what a terrible place to invest (insert eye roll).

 I can't thank you enough John! 

Without the actual data, baseless statements can get believed as fact. I myself had no idea Chicago was holding so strong, the media sure paints a different picture of it. Chicago-land has a lot of great places, seems there cherry-picking the few bad ones to paint a image of the whole. 

Thank you again for the FACTUAL data. 

PLEASE, any ALL with Infosparks access, please look up your market here stated as in significant decline, post the data, really want to drill down to find what is fact and what is fiction. 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @Chris John:

I know I've pointed this out, but I still think the comparison should be price per square foot.  To me, with low interest rates and easy money, that's a great time to trade up into a larger house.  With higher interest rates, I'm thinking that more smaller houses are being sold.  So, are we seeing a price drop because houses are actually getting cheaper or are more smaller houses selling which makes it look like prices are coming down?  No idea. 

I'd like to see @Greg R. and @James Hamling come up with competing sets of data and argue about it though!  haha.

Great idea Chris. There could be something to the price per Sqft angle. Not sure how to get that data... any suggestions?

And there are no competing sets of data. There is me producing current monthly sales data from the MLS and public records (via realtor.com & redfin), and there's James who produces quarterly data from Q2 2022 and then tries to pretend that those are current market data sets 😂

Exactly how do you have MLS data? Are you licensed? I am a licensed. I am a R.E. Broker actually, what are you?

My data is actually from the MLS. It was noted right on the postings I made. Data via Infosparks which is the ACTUAL data feed of/from MLS. realtor.com is NOT the MLS, it's kind of directly in there name, same for Redfin, so a little Edu. for ya there.

I also posted from FRED, which is the Federal Reserve. That anyone can access. But to get the actual MLS data feed, sorry you gotta be licensed for that and have a license for access generally obtained via ones membership to localized NAR chapter, and NAR itself, like I have.

For someone who knows so little, and get's so much wrong, the aggressiveness is interesting, to say the least. Reminds me of my university days and the psyc class discussions on Malignant Narcissism. 

[Greg R.]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

I'm going to try to respond in simple terms to give you the best chance of understanding. I never said "twin cities". I Provided data for Minneapolis. <<<--- Read this sentence twice. 

Now, below is median sold data per the MLS & public records for MINNEAPOLIS - NOT Twin Cities . Per this data June was the peak with a sold median price of 360k, and as of December the median sold price is 305k.

If your argument is that Redfin's reporting of data from the MLS and public records is inaccurate, please post your evidence.

Again, provide evidence that a publicly traded real estate company with a market cap of $665,000,000 is lying to the public with their reporting data. 

I'll keep an open mind. If you provide evidence, I'll stop citing data provided by Redfin. 

 Lol, ok guy. This is the very definition of "Selective Data" and "Distortion". 

Minneapolis is "A" city in the Twin Cities MN market. Sorry if THE MARKET data does not meet your pre-chosen outcome. I believe THE MARKET data is a whole lot more accurate and reflective than 1 city, who was under military occupation/security, given rampant RIOTS, Police Stations being burned to the ground, mobs running the streets for weeks on end, months really. We had highways blocked by riot mobs. Entire business districts of Minneapolis looted bare. Has the Real Estate market in Minneapolis suffered..... ah DUH. Would you like to live in Baghdad? No, neither do a lot of people. 

Minneapolis has lost about 50% of it's police force on top of all this. There is decent places in Minneapolis, a lot of pro's, but yeah it's got some extreme force factors to it buddy. 

But hey, what do I know, I am only based here in Minneapolis area, work, invest, buy, sell, advise here, I am sure some IT guy 2000 miles away knows oh-so-much-more in his selective data on the subject. (THAT's how you do snark, fyi).  

Let's not forget, I started the convo w/ Minneapolis. That was in my original post where I included pricing for 8-9 markets that have seen pricing decreases since the peak of the bubble. You responded and wanted to compare Minneapolis to Twin Cities. I never mentioned twin cities. 

And you're right, I don't know anything about the Minneapolis market. You claim to be the expert in the MN market, so you should know the "whys" in terms of why the Minneapolis market is declining. People who live there and are familiar with the market would have a much better idea. 

I simply identified the data - which is directly from the MLS and public records, provided by realtor.com and redfin. Seemed to really bother you that I identified that data. 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

I'm going to try to respond in simple terms to give you the best chance of understanding. I never said "twin cities". I Provided data for Minneapolis. <<<--- Read this sentence twice. 

Now, below is median sold data per the MLS & public records for MINNEAPOLIS - NOT Twin Cities . Per this data June was the peak with a sold median price of 360k, and as of December the median sold price is 305k.

If your argument is that Redfin's reporting of data from the MLS and public records is inaccurate, please post your evidence.

Again, provide evidence that a publicly traded real estate company with a market cap of $665,000,000 is lying to the public with their reporting data. 

I'll keep an open mind. If you provide evidence, I'll stop citing data provided by Redfin. 

Here is exhibit b, data from realtor.com. Numbers aren't identical, but it shows the same in terms of June/July being the peak, and declines since then. 

So here are two very reputable sources showing a peak in June/ July, and price declines since then. 

Again, provide evidence that both realtor.com and redfin are providing inaccurate reporting data. 

 Lol, ok. 

As you can see Greg, your wrong yet again. Above is the ACTUAL data feed on Minneapolis. I even took a FULL screen-shot so you can see what an ACTUAL data feed looks like. No, your not getting a full data feed because NAR owns the data feed and we do not give it out to the public for free, nor the public in general. One must be a licensed professional to receive the actual complete data feed. Do your research.

[Greg R.]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @Chris John:

I know I've pointed this out, but I still think the comparison should be price per square foot.  To me, with low interest rates and easy money, that's a great time to trade up into a larger house.  With higher interest rates, I'm thinking that more smaller houses are being sold.  So, are we seeing a price drop because houses are actually getting cheaper or are more smaller houses selling which makes it look like prices are coming down?  No idea. 

I'd like to see @Greg R. and @James Hamling come up with competing sets of data and argue about it though!  haha.

Great idea Chris. There could be something to the price per Sqft angle. Not sure how to get that data... any suggestions?

And there are no competing sets of data. There is me producing current monthly sales data from the MLS and public records (via realtor.com & redfin), and there's James who produces quarterly data from Q2 2022 and then tries to pretend that those are current market data sets 😂

Exactly how do you have MLS data? Are you licensed? I am a licensed. I am a R.E. Broker actually, what are you?

My data is actually from the MLS. It was noted right on the postings I made. Data via Infosparks which is the ACTUAL data feed of/from MLS. realtor.com is NOT the MLS, it's kind of directly in there name, same for Redfin, so a little Edu. for ya there.

I also posted from FRED, which is the Federal Reserve. That anyone can access. But to get the actual MLS data feed, sorry you gotta be licensed for that and have a license for access generally obtained via ones membership to localized NAR chapter, and NAR itself, like I have.

For someone who knows so little, and get's so much wrong, the aggressiveness is interesting, to say the least. Reminds me of my university days and the psyc class discussions on Malignant Narcissism. 

Ha! So MLS data is super confidential then? Only realtors have information that's contained in the MLS? Sorry, not the 1990s anymore bud. I'm not licensed now, but I actually was at a time. I have more access to data now than what I did as a licensed realtor w/ access to the MLS over 20 years ago 😂. I'm not talking about notes on a listing or trivial things like that either. I'm talking about volume, sales prices, number  of new listings, etc. 

Per Redfin: "Since Redfin is a brokerage, our website and mobile apps are powered by the MLS, so you'll get access to the same information as real estate agents"

Per Zillow: "Listings are published on Zillow directly through MLS Internet Data Exchange (IDX) feeds"

Per Realtor.com: "While numerous websites aggregate home listings through highly condensed versions of MLS listings, realtor.com® is by far the most comprehensive, with 99% of all MLS-listed “for sale” properties in the U.S."

But I guess the info on these sites isn't accurate, Redfin, realtor.com, and Zillow publish fake data. We should all take James' word as truth and believe that data published by companies worth hundreds of millions of dollars is false. 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

I'm going to try to respond in simple terms to give you the best chance of understanding. I never said "twin cities". I Provided data for Minneapolis. <<<--- Read this sentence twice. 

Now, below is median sold data per the MLS & public records for MINNEAPOLIS - NOT Twin Cities . Per this data June was the peak with a sold median price of 360k, and as of December the median sold price is 305k.

If your argument is that Redfin's reporting of data from the MLS and public records is inaccurate, please post your evidence.

Again, provide evidence that a publicly traded real estate company with a market cap of $665,000,000 is lying to the public with their reporting data. 

I'll keep an open mind. If you provide evidence, I'll stop citing data provided by Redfin. 

Here is exhibit b, data from realtor.com. Numbers aren't identical, but it shows the same in terms of June/July being the peak, and declines since then. 

So here are two very reputable sources showing a peak in June/ July, and price declines since then. 

Again, provide evidence that both realtor.com and redfin are providing inaccurate reporting data. 

 Lol, ok. 

As you can see Greg, your wrong yet again. Above is the ACTUAL data feed on Minneapolis. I even took a FULL screen-shot so you can see what an ACTUAL data feed looks like. No, your not getting a full data feed because NAR owns the data feed and we do not give it out to the public for free, nor the public in general. One must be a licensed professional to receive the actual complete data feed. Do your research.

 All can see in my FULL CLARITY of data I am sharing, in right pane it shows the data feed I am pulling, which is just Minneapolis because Greg has selected to NOT look at the whole Twin Cities market, and instead just look at 1 of the, IDK 80+ cities in the market. 

Since I have license I have a full REAL data feed. And guessing Greg will keep working to distort things via statements, not providing any supporting data, I will just pre-empt and share the actual data. 

New Listings, down significantly. 

Price per sqft, up significantly. I havn't really watched this metric before so I myself am a bit surprised how up it is. 

Homes for sale, down BIG time. In industry terms we say that's DECLINING inventory or tightening of the market. 

Months supply, hovering around 1.8 months. To put this in terms 3 months and under is considered a "tight" or "shortage" market. 

Volume of closed sales. I know Greg wants to keep all eyes on Month-to-month which is idiotic by any/all economic standards, but on this one I thought important to show context, so i went out 10yrs of data. Just as predicted YES volume has dropped significantly. ALTHOUGH we need to view FULL context. Todays dropped volume, is still higher than the trend line. If volume was at a straight line, it would call todays volume "new historic HIGHS". So, it's not as high as the most insane market in history, but again, nothing of that was sustainable nor should it be. 

So there it is folks, straight from the MLS itself, the direct data feed on Minneapolis real estate market.

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @Chris John:

I know I've pointed this out, but I still think the comparison should be price per square foot.  To me, with low interest rates and easy money, that's a great time to trade up into a larger house.  With higher interest rates, I'm thinking that more smaller houses are being sold.  So, are we seeing a price drop because houses are actually getting cheaper or are more smaller houses selling which makes it look like prices are coming down?  No idea. 

I'd like to see @Greg R. and @James Hamling come up with competing sets of data and argue about it though!  haha.

Great idea Chris. There could be something to the price per Sqft angle. Not sure how to get that data... any suggestions?

And there are no competing sets of data. There is me producing current monthly sales data from the MLS and public records (via realtor.com & redfin), and there's James who produces quarterly data from Q2 2022 and then tries to pretend that those are current market data sets 😂

Exactly how do you have MLS data? Are you licensed? I am a licensed. I am a R.E. Broker actually, what are you?

My data is actually from the MLS. It was noted right on the postings I made. Data via Infosparks which is the ACTUAL data feed of/from MLS. realtor.com is NOT the MLS, it's kind of directly in there name, same for Redfin, so a little Edu. for ya there.

I also posted from FRED, which is the Federal Reserve. That anyone can access. But to get the actual MLS data feed, sorry you gotta be licensed for that and have a license for access generally obtained via ones membership to localized NAR chapter, and NAR itself, like I have.

For someone who knows so little, and get's so much wrong, the aggressiveness is interesting, to say the least. Reminds me of my university days and the psyc class discussions on Malignant Narcissism. 

Ha! So MLS data is super confidential then? Only realtors have information that's contained in the MLS? Sorry, not the 1990s anymore bud. I'm not licensed now, but I actually was at a time. I have more access to data now than what I did as a licensed realtor w/ access to the MLS over 20 years ago 😂. I'm not talking about notes on a listing or trivial things like that either. I'm talking about volume, sales prices, number  of new listings, etc. 

Per Redfin: "Since Redfin is a brokerage, our website and mobile apps are powered by the MLS, so you'll get access to the same information as real estate agents"

Per Zillow: "Listings are published on Zillow directly through MLS Internet Data Exchange (IDX) feeds"

Per Realtor.com: "While numerous websites aggregate home listings through highly condensed versions of MLS listings, realtor.com® is by far the most comprehensive, with 99% of all MLS-listed “for sale” properties in the U.S."

But I guess the info on these sites isn't accurate, Redfin, realtor.com, and Zillow publish fake data. We should all take James' word as truth and believe that data published by companies worth hundreds of millions of dollars is false. 

So according to Greg he has MORE information on the Real Estate markets than licensed real estate agents and NAR.

Anyone wanna help educate greg here a bit. 

It's such a infantile and ridiculous statement, lol, I can't even waste the breath to reply. It's like arguing with a toddle who's saying the car runs on piss. 

Yeah Greg, NAR does not give out our data feeds, it's kinda the whole point of NAR, the value and necessity of membership. You UNLICENSED general public get snipets, but not the whole thing buddy.

Your whole argument greg is self-negating. Your using points saying "see, see, my souces get stuff from the MLS" and my data IS from the MLS itself, no middle person, DIRECT.

What have you got to say on the data I just dumped? Anything? Or now your arguing the actual MLS is wrong about the MLS data and realtor.com has the MLS data "more right" than the MLS itself. Yeah, that makes sense.......

Troll, Trolly Troll McTrollerson. 

[Greg R.]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Greg R.:

Also US housing market recorded the 7th straight month of price declines, which makes a 10% price decrease nationally over the last 7 months (since the peak of the bubble.) 

 Really? Because according to the data from FRED, your full of sh#t. Please explain this. 

Lmao, this is too funny. I really do appreciate all the ammo James, you make it way too easy. Do you know the difference between monthly and quarterly - google it? Your chart stops in Q2 of 2022, which was the peak of the bubble. 

The purveyor of falsehoods strikes again!!! 

 FYI, I'm not FRED. 

Not my chart buddy. 

I'm going to try to respond in simple terms to give you the best chance of understanding. I never said "twin cities". I Provided data for Minneapolis. <<<--- Read this sentence twice. 

Now, below is median sold data per the MLS & public records for MINNEAPOLIS - NOT Twin Cities . Per this data June was the peak with a sold median price of 360k, and as of December the median sold price is 305k.

If your argument is that Redfin's reporting of data from the MLS and public records is inaccurate, please post your evidence.

Again, provide evidence that a publicly traded real estate company with a market cap of $665,000,000 is lying to the public with their reporting data. 

I'll keep an open mind. If you provide evidence, I'll stop citing data provided by Redfin. 

Here is exhibit b, data from realtor.com. Numbers aren't identical, but it shows the same in terms of June/July being the peak, and declines since then. 

So here are two very reputable sources showing a peak in June/ July, and price declines since then. 

Again, provide evidence that both realtor.com and redfin are providing inaccurate reporting data. 

 Lol, ok. 

As you can see Greg, your wrong yet again. Above is the ACTUAL data feed on Minneapolis. I even took a FULL screen-shot so you can see what an ACTUAL data feed looks like. No, your not getting a full data feed because NAR owns the data feed and we do not give it out to the public for free, nor the public in general. One must be a licensed professional to receive the actual complete data feed. Do your research.

LMAO... why are you showing data starting in 2019?!?!?!?! WOW... this whole conversation is based off pricing since THE PEAK OF THE BUBBLE in June/July. We're not looking to see if prices raised since 2019 or 2021. I really don't know why I would even expect you to be able to carry a basic conversation without drifting off into never, never land. 

This post encapsulates our entire back and forth perfectly. You fail to understand the point I've been making all along. My posts have all said SINCE THE PEAK OF THE BUBBLE in JUNE/JULY. But to you that means let's set the clock back 2-4 years 🤡🤡🤡

Look at my post that you quoted. It states very clearly that I'm showing "a peak in June/July, and price declines since then." 

hahahahaha... James, come on man. Get it together.