More Success or More of What-Not-To-Do

[Daniel Cruz]

Hey Everyone,

More Success or More of What-Not-To-Do

Below is my first post in the Success Stories forums

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/223/topics/17...

I’m finally writing my 2nd “Success Story” post. I’ve been waiting to see if my new property would consistently produce cash flow as well as needing to finally finish my NRC exam to obtain a Reactor Operator’s license for the Watts Bar Nuclear Generating Station here in East Tennessee. I’m happy to announce that after a LONG 2.5 year process, as of July 25th, I passed my 2nd NRC Exam in my long career in nuclear power.

So here’s my story in purchasing my first duplex…

Around June or July 2015 I was trying to figure out how to buy a property outside of my SDIRA to increase my personal income. My goal was to have a steady flow of income that could be reinvest into future RE endeavors. I listened to BP podcast #89 several months earlier and after jumping into RE by buying turnkey properties, I kept Ohio Cashflow in the back of my mind as a potential Turnkey Operator. If you recall from my previous post, at this time I'm still in the middle of a Reactor Operator's training program, so I didn't have much time to pursue REI except through the turnkey route.

I made the decision to borrow from 2 of my properties in Dallas, TX. Unfortunately the only rentals that I own are in a SDIRA. I would then pull the borrowed money out of my SDIRA and purchase a property free and clear. Since Ohio Cashflow (OCF) was working in a less expensive market, I decided to do more research on them (them meaning Engelo Rumora) to see if there were any negative reviews / comments.

Now Engelo REALLY puts himself out there and is all over the internet; I figured if there were ANY negatives somebody would have said something. I did a BP search for Engelo and OCF. In general everyone seemed to have nothing but positive things to say, but nobody during my research on BP had actually purchased a property from OCF. I did listen to several interviews with Engelo such as:

The one with Lisa Phillips (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv7wohQTKls )

The Mark Podolsky interview (http://www.thelandgeek.com/?s=engelo+rumora)

The Brock Collins interview (http://www.freedomrealestateinvesting.com/engelo-rumora-turnkey-ohio-cashflow-investor-rei-012/)

and a interview at growtheverywhere.com, which is more entrepreneurial and less REI (https://growtheverywhere.com/growth-everywhere-interview/engelo-rumora-real-estate/?cet=33)

As well as investor testimonials on youtube

I also did a BBB search and Ohio Cashflow has an ‘A’ rating and there was a Toledo, OH business news article / interview I read (unfortunately I did not keep the link)

After my initial search, in July 2016 I made a decision to call OCF / Engelo to see about investing. Engelo and I ended up talking on the phone and he has as much enthusiasm in the day to day as he does in his interviews (a lot of energy that dude has). Engelo asked me to fill out a questionnaire about my personal REI experience and informed me that he only deals with investors that can buy free and clear. I told him that would not be a problem and that I had the money but it would take a little time for me to get it.

I also asked Engelo for a couple references which he gladly provided me. I contacted these references and both had positive experiences w/ Engelo and OCF. After all this I was set to buy a rental property from Ohio Cashflow, I just needed to get a hold of some money.

After speaking with Engelo and feeling more comfortable, I contacted First Western to start the process for non-recourse loans against my properties within my SDIRA. The process is very similar to a normal loan and I decided on $50,000 on 2 properties ($100,000 total). The prices for rentals in the Toledo, OH area (as seen on the ohiocashflow.com website) were ranging from $50,000 to $80,000 and I needed to plan for the taxes and penalties I was going to incur pulling money out of the SDIRA.

About late August to early September 2015, while waiting for my loans to close, Engelo posted on ohiocashflow.com a duplex in Middletown, OH. The numbers were:

$74,900 and $1350 rent, after expenses it was going to be about 15% ROI

I contacted Engelo and told him that I wanted the duplex in Middletown; I told him I did not have the money, but was in the process of obtaining loans on properties that I already owned. Engelo essentially said, “no problem, though we want to close early October”. Engelo was very flexible on the terms to purchase the property.

Mid-September my non-recourse loans closed and was able to close on my new / rehabbed dublex the first week of October. I was hoping that the close was early enough in the season that the PM would be able to find renters before late fall or winter. I had plenty of reserves and Engelo’s partner, Bryan, briefly mentioned in one email that OCF had motivation to ensure the duplex was rented because it would cost them money. Engelo has also mentioned in his interviews that the rentals would be tenanted to the buyer’s satisfaction. Well, I looked over the purchase agreement I signed and I couldn’t find any promise for back rent. So instead of relying on any money for back rent I patiently waited HALF THE WINTER for a tenant. FINALLY, in February I got news of 2 new tenants moving in AND TO MY SURPRISE – I GOT BACK RENT from October 2015 to February 2016 ($1350 for each month of vacancy).

Anyway I am very happy with OCF and their customer service is top notch. Engelo help me find a GREAT lender to refi the duplex (about $49,500 @ $450 monthly, PITI), and Engelo's other partner Dominique helped me find an insurance company

Here’s my first duplex on youtube: (Engelo is a little hyper – I think to prevent hyperthermia, video was shot in January)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=432udm1Cy20

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @Daniel Cruz:

Originally posted by @Bryan C.:

Great info @Daniel Cruz.  Love hearing more details on stuff like this as I am getting into similar situations soon.  How difficult was it to get the Non-Recourse Loans?  

How difficult was the cashout refi?  How long did that process take?

 Bryan,

The non-recourse loan was just like any other except the interest rates are a little higher. An appraisal was required and was coordinated between the PM and the renters.

The cash out refi was like any other, but I had seasoning issues. Because I owned the duplex for less than 6 months, the credit union I went to originally would not give me a loan (they only offered me an expensive line of credit). Thanks to @Engelo Rumora who introduced me to @Jerry Padilla I got a 70% loan. I was not able to get an 80% loan also because I owned the duplex less than 6 months

Jerry Padilla is the man and can do what most lenders can't. And I F#$%ing hate lenders but "dislike" Jerry the least out of all of them hehehe

Jokes lol

Thanks guys :)

[Engelo Rumora]

ps. @Daniel Cruz, you have disappointed many folks with your post as there are a ton of hawks out there touting that we will fail for years. 3+ years now and we keep proving everyone wrong.

Thanks again mate

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

Ah, another guru endorsement, good for you.

Congrats on passing your exam, I'm really glad you didn't learn that profession by similar means. :)

Hey Bill,

I'm the biggest anti-guru you will find. 

I'm strongly against any BULL@#$% courses, dvd's, seminars, etc...

My promise has been to NEVER sell any crap and I've announced this so many times lol

We have already had offers from big companies to use our brand and do the seminar circuit and make big $$$. Said "No" to that.

Have a TV show in the works now and penned 95% of profits to a good cause and the other 5% to go to my family. 

I"LL NEVER SELL CRAP

The only thing I might sell one day is my book and my time as a consultant but that will be so expensive that no one will pay for it until I get as big as Mark Cuban hehe

I'm a business man and entrepreneur and make my $$$ that way.

Thanks much ;)

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Bill Gulley  Engelo is not a Guru he is just a hard working young man who is building a turn key business and PM business.. along with he just launched a real Estate brokerage in Ohio called list and sell which is a discount brokerage for high achieving agents in that market place..  I personally know him and can assure you he is not a Guru in the sense you are thinking. 

Thanks much Jay :)

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Bill Gulley  Engelo is not a Guru he is just a hard working young man who is building a turn key business and PM business.. along with he just launched a real Estate brokerage in Ohio called list and sell which is a discount brokerage for high achieving agents in that market place..  I personally know him and can assure you he is not a Guru in the sense you are thinking. 

 My error, thanks Jay and apologies to Engelo too!  

Lots of threads are started by affiliates and this really looked like the same drawing assumptions......geeez, public forums! :)

I still love you Bill hehe

And that's a good idea.

I'll email my investors now to jump on BP and blow more wind up my A$$ hahaha

Jokes

Much success

[Daniel Cruz]

@Engelo Rumora you are welcome

@Bill Gulley

Thanks for the kind words for me getting my RO license. I made a post on Facebook, there was A LOT of pain, stress and lost weekends involved; 9 to 10 hour days, 6 to 8 hours on weekends (I could of studied more but I essentially maxed out my brain's capacity to make things stick). My promotion was an actual condition of employment, meaning TVA hired me to pass or look for another job. Initial License Training at Nuc Plants have about a 40% fail rate.

What can I do to not sound like an affiliate marketer? I've been a member of BP since May of 2013 and I haven't posted that much at first since I don't know anything (which I document in my first turnkey deals – link part of this OP) and 2 I've been extremely busy. I tried to document everything I did. The above paragraph is why I'm buying property at FULL RETAIL, outside of my area and why I do not know my local market as much as I should. Truth time, I do plan on seeking a wholesale coach and I did a BP search for Tom Krol and some people have crapped all over his claims - nobody has said anything negative about Engelo or Memphis Invest (the other Turnkey operator I have property with) during the times I researched both companies. Nice thing is now that I'm done I can spend more time here (yee-haw) actually learning more REI and inputing my experience w/ turnkeys, non-recourse loans, UBIT / UDFI

[Bill Gulley]

@Daniel Cruz

It's a very good thing that your industry expects much higher standards and performance, after all, you can get people killed. I understand such failure rates in training, I was an Air Traffic Controller (ATC) in the Army. (Tower and Ground Radar Approach Control) .  These types of jobs or professions have many things in common I'm sure.

Not only do you have a high degree of technical proficiency with numerous protocols but there is almost an "art" to employ the proper action and do so in, not just a timely manner, but very quickly, in an instant. 

You must be highly self motivated for positions like these, not just in training but on the job, fatigue is not an option and your attention detailed to 110% as you perform.

They also require a great deal of focus, you can't be distracted and you are disciplined to remain calm under extraordinary circumstances or in an emergency. 

These types of positions also require on going education, you never learn everything about your craft or profession. Your professional education requires effort and a maturity level beyond the level of college students attending frat parties or youthful happy go lucky work ethics. Again, it's dedication.   

There are other similarities between these types of professions as well, and those I mentioned are also positive traits of successful people, regardless of their industry.

Real estate does not fall into a comparable arena, to my knowledge no one ever died from a real estate contract or any deal gone bad, oh, you can get into big trouble and ruin your life, but you won't likely die from it nor will anyone else from your bad decisions. Real estate has a very low threshold to enter and you'll meet all kinds of people attempting to deal in real estate as others might try to sell shoes at a Carnival Shoe Store.    

I hope this isn't too long, but the reason I'm spending time on this post is because you have demonstrated a much higher degree of intellect, professionalism and personal traits by your accomplishments in your profession. You seem to be more deserving to be saved from the voodoo and folklore that gurus and hype dealing that most beginning investors fall for. Real estate is not a monopoly game!

I'm certain that TVA runs background checks for employment, most likely security clearances, they probably have a policy of professional conduct and expectations of character for certified professionals. 

Understand that dealing in real estate, that is fairly well regulated and carries compliance requirements which are not areas to be ignored or assumed. There are many violations of law that can lead to a felony conviction as well as civil suits that can then tarnish your reputation and character. For those who hold licenses and certifications in other professions, greater attention must be paid to legal and ethical aspects in real estate dealings. In other words, mess up and you can lose any state or federal license or certifications which can destroy your profession. 

So, in your case, you really need to (as in must) learn real estate conventionally just as you have in your other professional education. I'm sure you didn't have subordinates or other students giving you instruction, you had instructors who were qualified by experience and education in that field. We don't really have experienced and qualified real estate instructors because, again, the threshold to enter this side of real estate is very low. Don't be fogged by hype and claims they made millions doing some strategy. Most do not teach real estate and investing, they sell products or programs disguised as an education. 

There are accredited real estate schools in every state and most larger towns, colleges and universities teach real estate, there are business courses that involve real estate as well as (and specifically) business law courses. These are the building blocks of successful real estate operations, I'm sure you didn't rise to your professional certification without having learned what an atom was or fusion. Same thing in any business or profession, you must know the basics!  

You do not need a license to invest in real estate, you do need to know what those licensees know generally about real estate basics! 

I realize that newbies are eager to jump in, that's simply being excited not mature judgment. Some are too lazy to learn and simply want a quick buck, they should apply at Carnival Shoes because real estate is not like personal property. Real property is unique and with that goes unique laws and ethical requirements, one who has dealt in personal property cannot assume that a strategy dealing in used cars is okay in real estate!

Time, some say they don't have time to learn from the beginning, well, it only takes a few days or a couple weeks part time. My free basics course was accomplished in 3 days by one student. Now, she may not retain everything she read, but that's not as important as being aware of something and knowing where to find an answer! So, not having the time is no excuse as most spend much more time trying to learn systems while the blind are leading the blind on the internet. That is wasted time!

Wholesaling........I'd bet there are large companies who are compliant dealing in bulk property transfers, I'm just as certain that small fries who try to assign purchase contracts are not compliant with various laws, not just licensing laws. The fruit is poisoned by failing to have the ability to buy and the intent as they attempt to sell voidable contracts, that is simply basic uniform business law. You can read the wholesale forums here, lots of clowns in that circus. 

Hopefully, this will ring through to you in how best to start in this industry and simply stay away from strategy type instructors until you have accomplished the basics, I hope so. :)

[Daniel Cruz]

@Bill Gulley

Wow, Thank you Bill for your wisdom, and your first few paragraphs are spot on as well. Worry not, I do plan to speak to a wholesale strategist BUT I also plan on obtaining a RE license (which includes attending the necessary classes), RE and business advice from a legal professional, tax and bookkeeping advice from the proper professionals. I know taking action is important, but the way my mind thinks, to me it's also important to have the chess pieces in place as well. The whole reason for purchasing the duplex was to help save and pay for the proper legal advice.

I'm hoping a good brain, a professional presentation, hard work, as well as being an open book will be my competitive advantage. Oh and I will register on your site.

[Bill Gulley]

Originally posted by @Daniel Cruz:

@Bill Gulley

Wow, Thank you Bill for your wisdom, and your first few paragraphs are spot on as well. Worry not, I do plan to speak to a wholesale strategist BUT I also plan on obtaining a RE license (which includes attending the necessary classes), RE and business advice from a legal professional, tax and bookkeeping advice from the proper professionals. I know taking action is important, but the way my mind thinks, to me it's also important to have the chess pieces in place as well. The whole reason for purchasing the duplex was to help save and pay for the proper legal advice.

I'm hoping a good brain, a professional presentation, hard work, as well as being an open book will be my competitive advantage. Oh and I will register on your site.

 Well, thank you!

Speaking to some wholesale strategist is a lot like saying you're going to speak to the devil, so beware! It's great to hear you'll be getting a license, that means you'll be working under a broker. Chances are, whatever a wholesale guru tells you won't fly with your broker, but as a licensee you can simply act as an agent. A good broker will train you for different types of presentations, don't worry about that end of it now, just start learning real estate, not tactics so much. Good luck!  :)  

[Daniel Cruz]

Speaking to "the Devil", now that's funny