Applicants having a friend pretend to be their landlord for reference

Applicants having a friend pretend to be their landlord for reference

Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes

I am currently listing a place for rent. I have this couple come over and explain to my wife prior and myself at the showing how their current place is bad and that the ceiling caved in twice. They go on with some other stories and the like.

The gal loves the place and askes for an application and fills it out right then and there. They didn't seem to care much about the utility information or other important topics. I went through the application quick and they missed a couple things. She explained earlier that they had been taken to court by a previous landlord but that the landlord actually ended up paying them money. Court documents showed different. So when the questions in the application asking if they have ever been sued for unlawful detained, she insisted that she has never been sued and that isn't a real thing, I was quite confused.

Now the best part. I noticed she didn't have a contact number for her current or previous landlord. She didn't have a number for her prior landlord. She did however have a name and number for her current landlord where she has resided for a year. She knew the name and number without even looking. That was my first clue. The next night I looked up their current property and the owner information was different than the name she gave, (red flag, but her name could be a property manager). I called the number today and a guy answered when it was supposed to be a woman. Now I don't know how many landlords out there share a cell phone but it can't be many. I told the man my name and that I was calling for the woman and that is all I said. I got a call back a couple hours later at just after 8pm. The correct lady is on the phone now, and I say I am calling about her property in the city. She says yep, and names the address. I ask her how long she has owned the property and she says yes the couple are very nice people and they have been here a year. Now I have never mentioned that I was calling about them at all to anyone at this point. I asked again how long she owned the property and she said a while. It was funny because aftert each question, there was a muffled pause and then an answer. I asked how much their current rent was, if they were ever late and they sounds like model tenants. I asked why they are leaving and she replied that their lease was up. Then I asked if she was the property owner and she said yes. I then asked if she could explain to me why a different name was on the property records at the city. Then she hung up on me ;)

Needless to say, they will not get the place. I'm curious to others experiences where they have caught an applicant in a lie....

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Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y

One good thing to do is call the alleged landlord and say you are calling because (prospective tenant) listed them as a reference. You don't need to say it's for a rental house. A "reference" can be for a lot of things - new job, adopting a puppy, carrying a gun, etc. If they are the landlord, they will say so. If not, they might get tripped up right then.

If they are a fake landlord, but playing along, ask how long the person has lived there. Now, if the tenant listed the rent as $900, say, "It says here, the rent is $850. Is that correct?" This could trip up a poser as well.

As far as your current application, mine asks "has a landlord ever filed papers against you in court?" This is different from an eviction as most court filings never get as far as an eviction. I don't want anyone that has had a landlord go through the BS of going to the court and filing papers. Also, most people wrongly think that an eviction means all of their stuff was thrown out on the lawn by the court. They think if they move out five minutes before the sheriff arrives, that's not an eviction.

I would automatically reject your applicant for the court filing before ever calling a previous or current landlord, real or fake.

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  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    13y

    This is a perfect example of the importance of due diligence and tenant screening.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Kyle it happens all the time. You have to sift through the lumps of coal to find the diamonds. Pretty soon you do not even have to look at the lumps of coal as you see through the gimmicks much sooner.

  • West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    13y

    Had it happen a few times. I always check the parcel info prior to the call to make sure things jive.

    Never put much stock in the current ll as he may just want them out. I don't divulge much when people calls because I typically want them out.

    Also, when people bad talk their current place or ll it's a big red flag. Its a matter of time until their saying that same stuff to another ll about you.

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I had this happen a lot when I wasn't using a property manager. I think they are looking for owners who are either naive or desperate and don't actually complete a background check. And what I find weird is many of the previous "landlords" seem surprised when you call. Leads me to think a lot of people don't actually ever call them, or they'd have better answers ready.

  • Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    This has happeend to me a few times as well..i hate to say it, but i think a few have slipped through the cracks as well..part of the business i suppose

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    One good thing to do is call the alleged landlord and say you are calling because (prospective tenant) listed them as a reference. You don't need to say it's for a rental house. A "reference" can be for a lot of things - new job, adopting a puppy, carrying a gun, etc. If they are the landlord, they will say so. If not, they might get tripped up right then.

    If they are a fake landlord, but playing along, ask how long the person has lived there. Now, if the tenant listed the rent as $900, say, "It says here, the rent is $850. Is that correct?" This could trip up a poser as well.

    As far as your current application, mine asks "has a landlord ever filed papers against you in court?" This is different from an eviction as most court filings never get as far as an eviction. I don't want anyone that has had a landlord go through the BS of going to the court and filing papers. Also, most people wrongly think that an eviction means all of their stuff was thrown out on the lawn by the court. They think if they move out five minutes before the sheriff arrives, that's not an eviction.

    I would automatically reject your applicant for the court filing before ever calling a previous or current landlord, real or fake.

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    Rob K another great tip, rob! thank you for all you do for this community.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I have never had a landlord call me for a reference for any one of my prior tenants (but I've only had 3 priors as I've generally only had long-term tenants).

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    13y

    I have only had one landlord call me for an application check. I also have had many long term tenants. The one that did call I had to inform that I asked them to leave and they complied. They also had a judgement for money from me. However the tenant married since and didn't have much under her married name. I realized this after getting off the phone and called back and asked if he had her maiden name. He said no and I gave it and that would give him all the answers that he would need. He was very thankful for the honest information.

  • Investor · North Wales, PA · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 44 votes
    13y

    I love Rob's ideas.

    Another that I've had is to see if the landlord name matches the owner of the property. In the county that I live in, as well as a few neighboring counties, the property records are easily searchable online and for free.

    If their old place is owned by an LLC, searching through might be tougher; but if its owned by an individual, you could easily check that the name of landlord matches what you've been told.

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    side note - if they have to move immediately, chances are that's a red flab.

    i had one prospect say, "i've got to move in tonight." ha!

  • SFR Investor · Member since 2011 · 198 posts · 61 votes
    13y

    I have been doing the same thing as Rob K, I always call the prospective landlord saying I'm calling them as a reference and nine times out of ten if its not the real landlord they get tripped up. Some other things to ask are, when did they buy the home and what did they pay for it, because you are interested buying a rental home in the area. That info can be looked up on zillow or realtor.com.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I had a guy drive up in a pick up truck that held a bed and other belongings in it and asked "is this place for rent?" I kind of wondered if he was driving around looking for a place to live ... not exactly my kind of tenant.

  • Tucson, AZ · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 22 votes
    13y

    another important thing is to ask where they work and show a check stub.

    i had a young woman want to rent a house from me . . . i figured from her references (bogus) and employment that she wanted to furnish my house and then rent it out by the day as a B&B.

    (My lease always says no sublet.)

  • Investor · Milford, CT · Member since 2012 · 592 posts · 285 votes
    13y

    I just started in past year doing employment verification's by first having them submit a paystub with application. I indicate up front generally in the first call before they even come to view it. Background, Credit, and Employment verification. This takes care of 80% of the noise.

    In addition to looking up court records online, you can also look up DMV for criminal. I try to do as much online for free as possible. Even the facebook/google searching. Then I call and verify all the info they submitted in the app. After all that I finally break down and run a full credit report.

    I don't care for score so much as I want to see the collections and which bills they are paying. If its a utility bill I automatically disqualify them.

  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    13y

    It gets easier to identify bogus applications. I require current pay stub, current utility bill and 4 personal references. References provide insight about character also...favorable and unfavorable!!!

  • SFR Investor · Member since 2011 · 198 posts · 61 votes
    13y

    Facebook, don't even get me started on that one! I always check it for the name of the potential tennant and I can't tell you how many times it has saved me from even showing them the place!

    I look them up and many times I find multipal posts of drinking and partying or other things I don't want going on in my place. And these are supposed to be adults....

    It takes me twice as long to place a tenant in one of my homes but the chances are that tennant will be a better quality and live there much longer with no problems. My rental neighbors really appreciate the fact that I would not rent to someone I would not want living next door to me.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Kyle Hipp:
    She explained earlier that they had been taken to court by a previous landlord but that the landlord actually ended up paying them money.

    I automatically deny anyone that has had a court filing like this. If you look at all the steps the previous landlord went through with this filing:

    1. Tenant doesn't pay rent.
    2. Landlord send seven day notice (or whatever applies in that state).
    3. Landlord makes five copies of said notice and signs them all.
    4. Landlord makes five copies of the lease.
    5. Landlord drives to the courthouse.
    6. Landlord waits for some rude, bitter, divorced lady to waddle up to the glass and ask what you want.
    7. Landlord asks for a summons and complaint packet.
    8. Landlord goes out in the lobby to fill out papers and chuckles while felons do the perp walk.
    9. Landlord fills out summons packet.
    10. Landlord fills out complaint packet.
    11. Landlord writes a check to the court.
    12. Landlord writes a check to the court officer.
    13. Landlord has three stamped envelopes. One addressed to himself and one to each tenant.
    14. Landlord walks back to the glass and hands everything over.
    15. Landlord asks what day the court hearing will be, as he has a life and would like to plan for this.
    16. Landlord is told that the court date will be mailed out and that they don't know when it will be.
    17. Landlord drives home.

    Even if the tenant pays now, the landlord is out all this time and grief. The tenant has no idea what you went through and doesn't care anyway. If you have to go to court, that's a whole lot more wasted time.

    This is why I ask on the phone when a prospect calls, "Has a landlord ever filed court papers against you?" I don't ask if they were evicted. I don't care. I don't want to have to file any papers.

    Often times they will say yes and then ramble on about how they were in the hospital/fired/relative died/whatever about why they didn't pay their rent. I don't want to hear it. They are denied period. Then there are the smartasses that say a landlord has never filed papers against them. It turns up on the eviction report that I pull.

    I had a guy last month apply for a house. He claimed a landlord had never filed papers against him. Two evictions showed up. Then he's calling me to ask, "Did I get the house?" I asked him about the two evictions. He replied, "That was my dad. He has the same name as me."

    I replied, "Does your dad have the same social security number AND birthdate as you also?"

    He went on to say that he never lived at those addresses and blah blah blah.

    I said, "Do I look like Maury Povich?"

    He said, "No."

    I yelled in the phone, "DON'T LIE TO ME LIKE I'M MAURY POVICH! If you want to lie to someone, go on his stupid show and tell your lies."

    I can't stand these liars that think they're going to pull one over on me. It's ridiculous.

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    13y

    @Rob K. Yeah it is crazy how some people don't seem to understand the hassles of the eviction process or anything that requires paperwork really. I need to beef up my phone screening but truth be told I am having my wife take care of a lot of stuff as we are moving and I have been working a lot. It is a great learning experience for her. As she gets more comfortable and see more of this it will be easier to screen folks better.

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    13y

    Update: I informed the applicant today that they were declined. I started out by calling the number they put as their own on the application. It was not her number but her sister's, I guess. The applicant calls me back a couple minutes later and I let her know that her application was denied because of falsified information on the application. SHE DENIES IT!!! She says that the landlord gal was actually over last night and told the applicant that she hung up on me because I was asking a ton of questions. I explained that that was my job. She then insisted that gal how I talked to last night actually was the owner. That the house was a foreclosure and she is the owner.

    I later double checked a couple different sources, just for my own curiosity and found that the property has been owned for 7 years by the same people and no mention of any listings or transactions anywhere. I did however see that about $500 was added to the tax bill for unpaid water bills, I wonder who did that?!?!?

    I really do not understand some people. I think we have all lied about things before but I do not understand how someone can lie about something that is so easy to get caught in. And then defend the lie with further lies that are even weaker. The sad thing is the applicant called back about 15 minutes after our conversation and asked why I called her sister asking for her. I explained that I was calling the number that they put down as their phone number. She snapped back "You better check that application again because I put down xxx-xxx-xxx". She was wrong again, she had her sister's down.

    I'm not even a bit upset about the whole thing, it was pretty obvious from the begining. I do appreciate that it makes for a good story though. The only downside is that it shoots a couple holes in the "people are generally good" theory....

  • OR · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 845 votes
    13y

    Roughly 30% of my applicants give me a false landlord name and phone number.

    That's after I interview and the applicants read the rental criteria. Many of them decide to not risk their application money at that point. So, I am guessing that more than 30% will provide false information if they have a hope of getting away with it.

    By the way, most of these lying deadbeats are really totally charming. Which is why landlords who rent to people based upon their first impression can end up in trouble.

  • Piedmont, NC · Member since 2013 · 1 post · 0 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Rob K:
    One good thing to do is call the alleged landlord and say you are calling because (prospective tenant) listed them as a reference. You don't need to say it's for a rental house. A "reference" can be for a lot of things - new job, adopting a puppy, carrying a gun, etc. If they are the landlord, they will say so. If not, they might get tripped up right then.

    Hi, new here to BP. Question for Rob K: What kinds of questions would you ask for a "normal" reference that would help you qualify the prospective tenant? Or is this phone call simply to qualify whether the reference is actually a landlord? Thx!
  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I don't ask for personal references, only past landlords. I call them under the guise that it's for a reference. Usually if someone asks one of their friends to pose as a landlord, they're probably having that person pose as a former boss also. It's usually the same game with these clowns. Having someone use their friend as a landlord reference is quite common.

    I posted in another thread about how I had a woman last week give me a number for her current landlord. That person said great things about her. Too good if you ask me. When I got the real number for the apartment complex she lived at, her real landlord told a different tale about her.

  • San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    These occurrences are very interesting and good stories to keep in my your due diligence. People falsifying information seems to be the sweet talker mind set, from what I read from you guys.

    Thanks y'all.

    -Brandon Scott

  • Involved In Real Estate · My City, NJ · Member since 2013 · 181 posts · 81 votes
    12y

    I started in the time before the internet, property info at your fingertips & instant credit reports. One of my first applicants gave me her friends name & number as her LL. I only found out after they moved in, lesson learned. They paid their rent, but battled like gladiators above our heads constantly shouting, they were the biggest PIGS I ever seen. They lived there one year, I had to repaint, throw out the new stove, re floor & scrub everything.

    Three months after they moved out on their own for a bigger place ( thank God), me never receiving a call for a reference, some lady comes to my door asking me if her mother called me about them. I told her no, that they did the same thing to me, used a friend, etc.. She was real upset for her elderly parents who those animals now living above their heads. This was back in 1990, my wife & I still talk about them. This was a family with a 4 y/o boy & a 2 y/o girl. More than once we heard the 4 y/o boy screaming "I HATE YOU MOMMY", it was awful.

    I always advertise credit checks, references in the ads, still the cons show up, they know how to get past the phone screening. Once they get a copy of the actual VERY THOUROUGH application & fee demand, I never hear from them again, this of course after they LOVED the place. In the last few years I advertise property as a broker listing with my company name, that cut down on a lot of the deadbeats. They are hoping to catch the LL's who claim credit checks as just a bluff.

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