Diary - Buying a non-performing note NPN from start to finish

Diary - Buying a non-performing note NPN from start to finish

Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes

For the past few months, years perhaps, I've been trying to soak up knowledge in the area of note buying. It has been especially intriguing to me since my partner and I handle a large volume of foreclosures and I get to see all of the post-foreclosure steps, but never really see the pre-foreclosure steps. I've seen hundreds of title reports, and all of the issues that can come up post-foreclosure. I have a good amount of contacts in various areas that are needed such as law offices, contractors, etc. I have always learned better by doing, than by reading. I like to study a subject to get the basics down, and then jump in head first, which leads me here. I didn't do an extensive search, but I didn't find anything that broke down buying a NPN from day 1, until the day you hopefully profit from the purchase. I plan to document the steps here to help others.

I did find numerous posts regarding FCIExchange and how it wasn't really worth buying notes on a portal such as FCI. I have found numerous notes on there that do not look like they are any sort of a profitable purchase. Conversely, I have seen plenty that do look like they could be profitable. This experiment is focused only on non-performing. Performing notes are more straightforward and much easier to see profitable, steady returns. 

The hypothesis for this experiment: If I purchase a NPN then I will make a profit from the purchase. 

I casually browsed the exchange for a few weeks until I was able to find a property nearby that was selling at a significant discount to the unpaid balance (UPB). The UPB in this case is $74,160.32, and the asking price for the note was $4,999.89.

I sent someone to look at the property and take some photos. I didn't want to personally look, because if I would ever do this on a larger scale, I'd have to rely on other people inspecting the property. Here is the front:

The property appeared to be older, with a new roof. They knocked, and no one was home (obviously?) and saw some construction materials in the hall. Comps on the block are trading in the $50K-$80K range, some with commercial zoning even higher due to the county courthouse being within 1 block. There are a good amount of investor purchases here to be used as rentals as well. A retail flip, not very likely.

I concluded that even if the inside is terrible, this property could likely still fetch $25K in a quick sale to another investor. There were only 8 sales in the zip code in the last 180 days under $25K, out of 201 total sales. Furthermore, if I couldn't resell for that amount, I could certainly turn it into a rental. 

I decided to proceed, and pulled up the mortgage docs for this owner. Locally it's a program called Landex that you need a subscription for, that I already use. It was only one lien, and the mortgage had been assigned a few times. I pulled a title report from FCI, which is done with the click of a button. The title report came back quickly, and I reviewed it. Straightforward, with some municipal liens for sewer and garbage bills, totaling about $6K. I made an offer of $2,500, was countered at $3,500, and it was conditionally accepted based on a due diligence period of 48 hours for me, the buyer. Once you come to terms, all of the documents for due diligence are released inside of FCI to download and review.

I contacted my attorney to tell him the next crazy thing I was up to and asked him to look over the documents, and shed some light on what my plan was in case I was overlooking something. He told me I was not overlooking anything but he doesn't do foreclosures, and gave me a referral to someone else who was well versed in foreclosing. 

I contacted the new attorney, and told him I had 48 hours to review the documents. We made an appointment, and I went in to meet him and look over everything. He does local foreclosures for some local banks. He assured me I wasn't crazy for doing this given my background. He said he wanted a little more time to review and the following day I hadn't heard from him. FCI was asking me to conclude due diligence and I felt confident so I clicked end due diligence even without hearing from the attorney. He ended up emailing me a short time later and said everything looked clean, phew. This new attorney is charging $250/hour, and took a $1000 retainer to begin work. His rates seemed fair, and given that he does this often, I'm OK paying top dollar to make sure it's done right and he holds my hand on this first one. If I continue buying, I would expect to renegotiate the fee.

The next step was to sign the note purchase agreement, provided by FCI. I signed and uploaded it. FCI asks if you want to record the note yourself when received, or pay them $200. The fees to record in this county are $66 so I will walk it in to the courthouse and record it. 

Next step will be to receive the signed purchase agreement from the seller, pay $3500 + $500 FCI fee, and receive all the mortgage documents. 

Total out of pocket to date: $1000 - legal retainer

I look forward to you following along. If I've missed adding details, shout it out and I'll be happy to provide. If I do something "wrong" you can feel free to point that out too, but as I said this is first and foremost a learning exercise so don't snicker behind my back ;) 

Stay tuned!

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Investor · Kingston, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y

Mark, I've purchased 3 NPLs via FCIExchange over the past 2 years and they have all been good deals, so I'm glad you are using them to do this test. The nice thing about this site is that you can negotiate with the seller, have the opportunity to preview the collateral and FCI provides the escrow service to hold your funds until the collateral files are verified by FCI. Its a relatively "safe" transaction using their platform. 

I even had a transaction that went all the way to signing a contract to purchase and the day before I was scheduled to wire my funds I discovered that the note was invalidated due to a state statute in Oklahoma. I contacted the admin at FCIExchange and they essentially cancelled the purchase and relieved my obligation to consummate the deal. Very good folks with whom to do business IMHO.

Bob

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Mark Gallagher  other than the new federal law which requires 120 day notice.. in GA you can get through a Trustee sale in a little over 60 days start to finish

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mark Gallagher:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Mark Gallagher  tricky place to lend money   from a lenders perspective.

    and a good example how these foreclosure rules vary widely from state to state.

    West coast is pretty homogenous  CA OR CA  when it comes to trustee sales.

    But all best off on East Coast judicials and tax sales.. much more complicated and or hoops to jump through. 

    Definitely interesting because to me, this is "quick." Average days to foreclose in NJ for example is 1128. Now THAT's ridiculous. Anything under 365 seems reasonable to me. But, now that I type that, it should definitely be quicker for the business/person taking all the risk of capital. 

    For me, it was the federal 120 day default rule that killed seller financing to to consumers. I was going along thinking I could accommodate the origination, servicing and collection regs as they finalized the rules.  But not being able to initiate foreclosure for an additional 120 days was the final straw. Thankfully your borrower bought the property for a business purpose and was not living in the property.  Would you have bought the note had the borrower been a consumer that bailed on the property?

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Mark Gallagher  other than the new federal law which requires 120 day notice.. in GA you can get through a Trustee sale in a little over 60 days start to finish

    A certain percentage of borrowers are in default/foreclosure at any given time.  That time is rent/mortgage free.  In most places, if the borrower goes into default, it will be at least a year from start to finish.  How many people are living in nice houses with no housing payment? The borrower doesn't even have to answer the phone or open the mail.  And if they do, they might be able to buy more time. No one's coming to knock on their door or evict them.  A year free of housing payments, in some judicial states 2 or 3 years.  Doesn't anyone else find that rather shocking.  You can't stiff your landlord for a year or more.  I'd say the owning class scored on this one  :) 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed  Ergo the new lending guidelines... And by the time folks live in houses for 1 to 5 years without making payments.. they then convince themselves that they deserve it and its the big bad banks that are the evil doers in this play... LOL.

    There are billboards in Vegas with attorny's  advertising that for 1k they can keep you in your home for another year or more  !!

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 47 votes
    10y

    @Mark Gallagher Hi Mark. Maybe I missed it but did you mention if this was a 1st position note? 

    Also, here's a hypothetical question. If I had a portfolio of NPNs spread throughout several states, would I need to have a team in place in each state (especially a legal team/attorney)? Or is there a better way to go about this?

    Tons of great insight on this thread btw!

  • Investor · Redondo Beach, CA · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    I agree with many already indicating the quality of this thread. Mike thank you for the original post and the follow through on process.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mike J.:

    @Mark Gallagher Hi Mark. Maybe I missed it but did you mention if this was a 1st position note? 

    Also, here's a hypothetical question. If I had a portfolio of NPNs spread throughout several states, would I need to have a team in place in each state (especially a legal team/attorney)? Or is there a better way to go about this?

    Tons of great insight on this thread btw!

    Hey Mike, 

    You would need a team in each region essentially, not necessarily the state. Most larger law firms that handle REO volume will work a few states.

    Certain platforms, FCI included, offer cradle to grave services (lingo meaning from the time it comes into your portfolio until the time it is disposed out of of your portfolio) on their loans. Meaning if you buy a NPN they can try to get it performing, or they can get it through the foreclosure process within their network of field services, attorneys, etc. I use Equator on the opposite side as an agent, but I believe you can do the same thing inside of Equator.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y

    Update

    FCI tried to bill me for their "high collection" activities for the 1st 30 days of service. I told them their notes reflected not a single call or attempt was made to reach the borrower, including a skip trace. 

    They were quick to realize that my loan had fallen through their cracks and immediately credited my account for the month. As of today they've performed the skip trace, found 3 phone numbers and started making collection calls. Of course 2 of the numbers are dead, and one just rings and rings. But it's some minor progress. 

    The foreclosure suit was filed, and at this time we're awaiting service to the borrower/defendant. If the borrower can't be served, it will have to be publicized 3x in the newspaper (those still exist?!) as notice of service.

    I've also found someone to purchase the property post-sale if it comes back into my possession. Basically I would plan on setting it at a "nice" price at the sale, and if it doesn't sell, I'll sell it to this buyer at a "fair" price. 

    Summary: so far, so good. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
    Originally posted by @Mark Gallagher:
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
    Originally posted by @Mark Gallagher:

    @Steve Babiak

    Taxes were NOT in the TCB of Northampton County.

    So is that municipality one that opts out of TCB and then hires a law firm (like Portnoff) to get it to sheriff sale?  The latter might have redemption rights in some situations, but not in the case of what you have described so far since it is not being owner occupied.

    Correct, I believe they in fact use Portnoff. 

    What happens if a mortgage is assigned the day before a judicial sale with no redemption rights? Caveat emptor I presume? 

    So we're clear, this will be about PA tax sale conducted as a sheriff sale, where the property had been previously exposed to sheriff sale but had no bids, so taxing authority petitioned for the judge to extinguish liens. 

    So, you could have attorney file emergency motion to the judge assigned for this matter to postpone the sale due to the circumstances of a too recent change in mortgagee. 

    Assuming no motion was presented or a motion was denied, AND the property was sold to a third party bidder at sheriff sale, PA sheriff sales have a 30 day window to contest the sale. A judge could set the sale aside, or leave it remain sold. 

    It just dawned on me that I missed another possibility. That would be to attend the sheriff sale with funds in hand, and participate in the bidding. You could just try to bid up any other bidders, or you could have the goal of getting the property so you outbid all others. In this particular circumstance, you probably would just bid up to an amount where you are getting paid back a satisfactory amount and then get out of any ongoing competitive bidding. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    At least in these parts, the foreclosing attorney announces their max bid, and then bidding takes off from there. So if my attorney says "max bid $35,000" the next bid is $35,100. If no one bids over $35,000 it reverts to lender. That way no time is wasted getting to the lender's max and waiting for real bidding. Do you see another angle that I'm missing? 

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 47 votes
    10y

    @Mark Gallagher Thank you for the heads up on regional legal teams and cradle to grave providers! I'll be sure to do some more digging. And it sounds like you have positive progress on your note. Thanks for keeping us posted.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mark Gallagher:
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    At least in these parts, the foreclosing attorney announces their max bid, and then bidding takes off from there. So if my attorney says "max bid $35,000" the next bid is $35,100. If no one bids over $35,000 it reverts to lender. That way no time is wasted getting to the lender's max and waiting for real bidding. Do you see another angle that I'm missing? 

    Well, the "max bid" or "upset bid" (both of those terms are used interchangeably by the foreclosure attorneys at sheriff sales in my area of PA) is not an actual bid, because the attorney then actually will bid "costs" (that is the minimum bid at s PA sheriff sale because that is the costs incurred by the sheriff to hold the sale for the property in question). The dollar amount of "costs" is anywhere in the range of a few thousand, so any bidder could just bid a few hundred more than "costs" - thus underbidding the max bid. This actually happens quite a bit, usually newbies, and there are even bidding wars between the underbidders and the bank attorneys - with the underbidder usually dropping out well below reaching max bid of the bank so a lot of time gets wasted this way. But it is within the rules of the sheriff sale because subsequent bidders are only required to bid higher than actual bids. 

    Now, the post that I made which you had quoted was for when a judicial tax sale was being conducted by the sheriff, so you were at that point being wiped being junior to the tax position - so it's not the same as when you foreclose as the senior lien holder. And the angle is simple: say tax bill is $5K and you are into it for $7K and let's say other senior municipal liens are $9K; you get paid when the bidding exceeds $14K because all senior lien holders are made whole at that point, and you are made whole when the bidding hits $21K. Once you are made whole, you can drop out of bidding, and you can drop out sooner or later as well depending on what your goal might be. But anything over $21K up to the face value of the note is your profit, so you would probably bid until you hit your desired profit. 

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
    Originally posted by @Mark Gallagher:
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    At least in these parts, the foreclosing attorney announces their max bid, and then bidding takes off from there. So if my attorney says "max bid $35,000" the next bid is $35,100. If no one bids over $35,000 it reverts to lender. That way no time is wasted getting to the lender's max and waiting for real bidding. Do you see another angle that I'm missing? 

    Well, the "max bid" or "upset bid" (both of those terms are used interchangeably by the foreclosure attorneys at sheriff sales in my area of PA) is not an actual bid, because the attorney then actually will bid "costs" (that is the minimum bid at s PA sheriff sale because that is the costs incurred by the sheriff to hold the sale for the property in question). The dollar amount of "costs" is anywhere in the range of a few thousand, so any bidder could just bid a few hundred more than "costs" - thus underbidding the max bid. This actually happens quite a bit, usually newbies, and there are even bidding wars between the underbidders and the bank attorneys - with the underbidder usually dropping out well below reaching max bid of the bank so a lot of time gets wasted this way. But it is within the rules of the sheriff sale because subsequent bidders are only required to bid higher than actual bids. 

    Now, the post that I made which you had quoted was for when a judicial tax sale was being conducted by the sheriff, so you were at that point being wiped being junior to the tax position - so it's not the same as when you foreclose as the senior lien holder. And the angle is simple: say tax bill is $5K and you are into it for $7K and let's say other senior municipal liens are $9K; you get paid when the bidding exceeds $14K because all senior lien holders are made whole at that point, and you are made whole when the bidding hits $21K. Once you are made whole, you can drop out of bidding, and you can drop out sooner or later as well depending on what your goal might be. But anything over $21K up to the face value of the note is your profit, so you would probably bid until you hit your desired profit. 

    Steve:   The face value of the OP's note is twice what he expects it to sell for. Why participate in the bidding process as the note holder?  Why wouldn't the OP just set his minimum bid so the taxes get paid, he gets his note purchase money back plus his desired profit? Are you thinking that participating in the sale creates more bidding frenzy?

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed not just bidding frenzy; when you are there, you sense the struggles in some bidders as they face the choice to bid higher or drop out (they are nearing or over their own max bid) - so you can then quit bidding if you don't really want the property.  And that takes away the risk of nobody bidding because starting bid was too high. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y

    *Update*

    Note investing sure isn't glamorous and you won't see a TV show about it any time soon! At this point the defendant has not yet been served by the sheriff, and the sheriff is still attempting service.

    In addition, the servicer could not find a working phone number through skip trace, and as such I have downgraded their service from high-touch collection, to standard servicing. This will save money since they can't perform any collection activities such as collection calls. They offered a door-knocking service, but then told me they could only door knock on the subject property and since this is an investment property, they could knock on his primary residence.

    In summary, a lot of waiting. 

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mark Gallagher:

    *Update*

    Note investing sure isn't glamorous and you won't see a TV show about it any time soon! At this point the defendant has not yet been served by the sheriff, and the sheriff is still attempting service.

    In addition, the servicer could not find a working phone number through skip trace, and as such I have downgraded their service from high-touch collection, to standard servicing. This will save money since they can't perform any collection activities such as collection calls. They offered a door-knocking service, but then told me they could only door knock on the subject property and since this is an investment property, they could knock on his primary residence.

    In summary, a lot of waiting. 

    Pretty much following through on paperwork and waiting.  But hardly onerous in most cases.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread I haven't yet found a way to scale up on finding such notes.  But if I could I prefer it to rehabbing for the same profit.  Thanks for the update.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y

    Two months later - any updates? Check whether you can petition to just use alternate service (publication in newspapers and posting handbill on premises).

  • Steve HodgdonPro Member
    Investor · Novato, CA · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 321 votes
    10y

    thanks for sharing. I started a similar thread a few weeks ago. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y

    *UPDATE*

    Note investing continues to be oh-so-boring... 

    12/18/2015 - Court allows service by publication since defendant can't be found: 

    So as it says, legal notices had to be placed in the two newspapers along with a posting on the property. Property was posted 12/22/2015:

    Notice in the newspaper on 12/24:

    And notice in the court reporter 12/31:

    Once those were all completed, the attorney submits proof to the court of all 3 as an affidavit of service. 20 days had to pass with no response from defendant. Then, the property had to be posted AGAIN as a 10 day notice.. 

    Posted new 10 notice which says a judgement is going to be filed against the defendant, on 2/5. 

    Those 10 days were up today, and now the attorney will file for a default judgement. 

    3/11/2016 is the last day to file for the 6/10/2016 sheriff sale. So provided the judgement is entered prior to 3/11, the attorney can schedule for the 6/10/2016 sheriff sale. 

    Recent costs:

    November Servicing - $95

    December Servicing - $95

    Force-placed hazard insurance - $482.16

    Attorney fees - $821.32 (in addition to $1000 retainer previously paid)

    January Servicing - $75 ($30 standard servicing, plus $45 one-time change fee)

    Snow removal from blizzard - $100

    February Servicing - $30

    Total spent to date: $9,284.75

    Outstanding liens: $13,545.69

    Next steps: await default judgement, and schedule for sheriff sale.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Mark Gallagher  Thanks for the update.  So if you go to sale in June and the property sells to a 3rd party bidder, you'll have been in for 10 months, correct?  Only one small repair/maintenance cost so far is fantastic.  Keep it boring, keep it profitable!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Mark Gallagher  Thanks for the update.  So if you go to sale in June and the property sells to a 3rd party bidder, you'll have been in for 10 months, correct?  Only one small repair/maintenance cost so far is fantastic.  Keep it boring, keep it profitable!

    Correct, 10 months. The attorney has been a little slower than I'd like and we probably could have shaved some time off in there, but nothing substantial. 

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I just searched for this thread so I could follow it.....because we no longer have the function that keeps track on threads I've responded in....or at least I can't find it. This is a great thread for anyone thinking about NPNs who isn't necessarily interested in getting it performing. So many ways to deal with notes. I just got a call about a seriously messed up delinquent NPN I've been tracking a long time, and it sounds like the executor is ready sell. Looking forward to finding out what happens to @Mark Gallagher's property at sale this summer!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y

    Update

    Today the attorney sent the praecipe for judgement to the court. This will allow the court to enter judgement in my favor against the borrower for $100,678.00. Once this judgement is entered, the request for sheriff sale can be scheduled. The last day to file for the June sale is 3/11, hopefully we can make it. Otherwise, it would move to the July sale.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Allentown, PA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 701 votes
    10y

    Update

    The following was sent to the courthouse, and the property is scheduled to be sold at the June sheriff sale, 6/10. 

  • Hvac · North Haven, CT · Member since 2015 · 298 posts · 79 votes
    10y

    @Mark Gallagher Wow awesome thread. Can't wait to see the final results. 

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