First flip lending options

First flip lending options

Dave CarpenterPro Member
Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes

Hey there all! A REI newbie here with a question that I think is fairly common for first time investors.
I am in the beginning stages of lining up a single family flip in the northern suburbs of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Here is the back story:
I met with a developer this last week who has a relatively run-down house on land he is planning to develop (would need to gut kitchen, and bathrooms, redo floors, paint, new roof, HVAC, landscaping, finish walk out basement).
For context, it is a 16 acre parcel that he will likely divide into 3 plots (one being the lot with the house already on it) He develops higher end custom homes 400k +, and doesn’t really want to rehab this house, but sees the potential it holds.
As I will be rehabbing a house adjacent to the developers sites he is interested in seeing me success, and has offered to provide some mentoring and connections, however he has very little activity in financing in this way, so I thought I would reach out to BP!

Here are the details:
2800sqft house
4 bed, 2.5 bath
3 acre wooded lot
Asking price – 200k
Estimated rehab costs – 100k
County assessment a few weeks ago – 195k for land, 148k for building

I currently have a private lender who is willing to invest 125k likely with a 10% return, though also discussing equity split. I am able to personally put up only a small amount of money as I currently own a duplex and SFH, neither of which have much equity yet.
What are suggestions on how to get the remaining investment needed? I am open to HML, equity split, or another private lender. I know having multiple investor's means that the risk goes up for the lender who doesn't get 1st position.
Any suggestions on strategy would be appreciated.

Thanks!

0Reply
35 views

6 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    13y

    Additionally, the developer thinks this property could sell for between 400k and 500k depending on quality of the rehab. In my basic search for comps, 400k seems very reasonable, thought I personally think 500k might be a bit high.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    My biggest concern if I were you would be the accuracy of the rehab estimate ($100K) and the accuracy of the resale value ($400K). Don't take the builder's word for those things -- determine them for yourself.

    $100K in rehab on a 2800 sf house is about $35/sf. If you're going for a high-end rehab, that could just cover the cosmetics and nothing else. You mentioned roof, HVAC and finishing out the basement -- that could easily be another $30K. But, if you're using lower-end finishes, maybe $100K is reasonable. You need to figure that our yourself based on the level of rehab required (what does your competition have and what will your buyer demand) and the cost of the contractors you hire (I've found that it's tough to find investor-friendly contractors in Milwaukee).

    Do your due diligence independent of the guy selling you the property. If the numbers work, great. If not, walk away. But certainly don't assume anything he is telling you is true.

  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    13y

    @j Scott - great advice! That has just been a starting point. My next steps are figuring out finance options and then want to get a contractor (or 3) through the house to give me a better feel for rehab costs. I am also thinking I would want an agent to come and give me a feel for what I can sell for based on the market and quality of rehab.

    The $35 sq ft is good info to know too!

    Things like bedrooms are in pretty good shape, but there is certainly some real work that needs to be done. I have been talking with @jenkins Ramon about this too. He pointed out trying to get a 70% LTV as well. Seems like I am a little over that based on my round numbers right now.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    Perhaps the guy with $125K can be an equity partner on title with you, so that way he's not in first lien position, and you can find another lender, using the $125K as your portion of the cost. Sounds like you'd need to borrow about $200K to cover the rest of the purchase, rehab and holding costs, which is potentially 50% LTV -- many lenders will be happy with that position.

    Try networking at your local REIA, finding HML in your area, and perhaps looking for a portfolio lender (small bank) in your area.

  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    13y

    @j Scott - that is a great idea to move the 125k to equity and I think I could get them to agree. Then having an available first Leon position available for the other 200k does seem like a desirable situation for a HML or portfolio. Thanks for the advice!

  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    13y

    per J Scott request, here is an update on my first flip...

    After getting comps and a more formal quote from a contractor, here are the big numbers:

    Sale Price: 390k
    Rehab Cost: 126k
    Purchase Price: 150k

    This leaves me at an ARV of about 71%, which is within spitting distance of 70%. ( I personally think the 390k sell price is a bit conservative, but I think staying under 400k is a safe price point.)

    I currently have 2 private lenders lined up to split the rehab costs 50/50. I will be covering holding costs. I will be getting seller financing for the purchase price with 85% LTV so its looking like about 22.5k down at purchase. He will be charging me interest based on the typical interest rate at the time of closing.

    I have a contractor lined up who has flipped a few of his own houses, and I have seem him in action doing a major rehab on my uncles house a few years back. He finished that job on budget and slightly early.

    I am in the process of setting up an LLC to handle the finances and provide me a layer of protection. This was also requested by the lenders, and I was planning to do it anyways!

    A few things I am not as certain about:

    1. Rate of return for investors: I am currently planning on a guaranteed 10% return on their investment. I expect they both will be somewhat active as they both find this process "cool", but I think I feel more comfortable with a guaranteed return as one is family, and the other a friend. Thoughts?

    2. How to formalize relationships with investors: The seller will be getting a 1st lein position on the property, but I am not sure how to do 2nd and 3rd position. It seems like 1 of the 2 lenders will need to get 2nd. Is there a way to establish the relationship where they would both get second position?

    3. How to structure the purchase of the house: The seller is a developer who has his brokers license. I think this means that I don't need to have an agent involved as he can set up the sale himself. Is this true, or should I have someone representing my interest, and if so who?

    4. How best to move money through this process: I am planning to take the money in from the investors through the LLC, and then write all checks to contractors, etc. using that same business account. Thus all money for this flip will flow though the LLC. Is this the best way to do this, or is there a better/simpler solution?

    I trust everyone involved in this process, but I would rather not lean on that trust but instead have relationships formalized with legal documents (or at least as legal as they can be, no handshakes here!). My goal is to have all the "I"s dotted, and "T"s crossed, then not have to exercise them.

    Whew, I think that is enough for now, thanks all in advance for the advice/thoughts!

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.