How would you rehab this kitchen?

Rehabbing & House Flipping
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How would you rehab this kitchen?

Phillip Rosin
Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 36 votes

I just acquired two identical, side-by-side duplexes and am starting to plan out my rehab project. I'm starting my focus on one unit, to figure out what works and does not work, and will hopefully then apply all those lessons to the remaining units. The properties do not appear to have been updated since they were built in 1998 and also were not really maintained well. They are located in a blue collar, "B-minus?" area of Clearwater, FL. I currently only have a few pictures taken from a website as I'm in the process of getting some tenants out. Each unit is a 3/2, 1,100 sqft, with washer/dryer closet in the kitchen area. Expected rent around $1,500.00, once updated. 

Now, for the kitchen, I'm trying to walk the line and not over or under upgrade. 

Cabinets: My thoughts are to paint (white)/repair the cabinets, update hardware and add a cabinet over the sink. I have built custom cabinetry in the past and considered boxing in the area between the cabinets and ceiling and installing taller doors, to give a more premium look, but I'm unsure whether that effort would really pay off. Alternatively, I could add a small crown to the existing cabinets and then paint, giving it a more finished look for very cheap. I also considered boxing in the refrigerator, to give a more polished look. I'm not sure, again, if that would be worth it. Minimal effort / money (diy), but unsure. 

Appliances: Will evaluate for ability to clean up / functionality. I may go with a stainless or black package. One question is, for the stove top, should it be glass or coils? As nice as glass is, it is harder to maintain and more prone to damage and I'm not sure a tenant will care much one way or the other? 

Countertop: I can cheaply put in a nice laminate IKEA countertop, or I can go the level 1 granite route. I'm not sure which will give me the best ROI. There is not a lot of counter space, so I'm estimating around $150 for laminate (diy) and $1,000 for granite. I'm not sure how much more granite would get me in this scenario, if anything.

Sink: Not sure if I should re-use or replace. May depend on the countertop choice. Faucet will be updated with a pull down most likely. 

Lighting/Electrical: The main fixtures will be updated with something matching current style. Update receptacles to white. 

Backsplash: Probably a subway tile look, either real or stick-on.

Paint: I'm not sure what is going to match the tile and these pictures aren't the best. TBD

Laundry Closet: Should I add a bi-fold door here? I am thinking about adding additional storage in there, either shelves or cabinets, as well. There is not a lot of storage space in this kitchen. It's hard to see in the photos, but it's to the right when walking into the kitchen.

Note: I attached an additional photo that gave me some inspiration regarding closing in the refrigerator and color schemes / fixtures.

I'd love to hear feedback from others who have tackled similar projects. Which upgrades are worth it and which are not? Any suggestions I haven't thought of yet? Thank you!

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Shera Gregory
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2013 · 347 posts · 191 votes
6y

I'll weigh in on the stovetop question .. smooth top for sure. Coils screams "cheap" and "old". For the other points about the kitchen, etc I would look at photos of places for rent in your same area and price point to see what other options your potential tenants will have available to them.

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  • Phillip Rosin
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    Thanks for that feedback. I should also note the ceiling is vaulted but I am thinking I would only bring the new extension up to, at most, the perimeter wall height (8ft). That may add a little more open feel and allow light to pass between the areas more easily (and avoid potential ac balance issues, perhaps).

    0Reply
  • Johann Jells
    Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    6y

    Philip, you basically have to decide what's the selling point you want to make in the unit.  I've had people come in and gush about my kitchens, and have had tenants that appeared to use their range for storage the entire time they were there. My advice is based on 'good kitchens' have the most counter and the most storage. Other stuff is negotiable, like table size. As just one example I often see rectangular tables like you drew pushed to the wall to seat 5 not 6.

    So as someone said, doing this well might not get you much more money, but it could make it easier to rent when a prospect who cooks comes in and loves the kitchen.

    Here's another idea that I did in my own place, instead of using drywall, add shallow glassware and can shelves to the wall you build to the right of the fridge. The whole right wall of this closet is basically a shallow cabinet carcass I made of plywood and then veneered. You could simply paint it. The top is open storage space accessible from 2 sides, and I ordered all the doors to match the rest of the kitchen. Those 5 inches are worth a bunch of wall cabinets!

    0Reply
  • Phillip Rosin
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    Very nice project. I like how functional that is. I agree that just as with selling a home, kitchens sell and if someone really likes the kitchen, chances are they'll stick around or at least take better care of the space. Though I may not get more rent, what is the likelihood of increased valuation on the property, come refi time? If I get good equity that I can eventually take back out, it likely would be worthwhile. I guess I'm doing my own version of brrrr, but I didn't put a lot down on this (3.5% FHA) so I'm unsure how much I can get that valuation up after rehab. Will have to wait and see. However, any non-expensive upgrades I can diy certainly won't hurt, I imagine.

    0Reply
  • Johann Jells
    Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    6y

    Sorry, I'm a simple buy and hold guy, I don't know much about exactly what brings equity. The only time I tried to refi the appraisals were literally criminal, but that's a different rant.  'High labor-low expense' projects like this and granite tile seem to be what you're looking for if you're into adding some sweat equity.  Excepting the doors, the major expense of that closet was 2 sheets of birch ply!  You could probably get doors for it from a salvage place.

    0Reply
  • Anthony Angotti
    Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 846 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Phillip Rosin:

    I just acquired two identical, side-by-side duplexes and am starting to plan out my rehab project. I'm starting my focus on one unit, to figure out what works and does not work, and will hopefully then apply all those lessons to the remaining units. The properties do not appear to have been updated since they were built in 1998 and also were not really maintained well. They are located in a blue collar, "B-minus?" area of Clearwater, FL. I currently only have a few pictures taken from a website as I'm in the process of getting some tenants out. Each unit is a 3/2, 1,100 sqft, with washer/dryer closet in the kitchen area. Expected rent around $1,500.00, once updated. 

    Now, for the kitchen, I'm trying to walk the line and not over or under upgrade. 

    Cabinets: My thoughts are to paint (white)/repair the cabinets, update hardware and add a cabinet over the sink. I have built custom cabinetry in the past and considered boxing in the area between the cabinets and ceiling and installing taller doors, to give a more premium look, but I'm unsure whether that effort would really pay off. Alternatively, I could add a small crown to the existing cabinets and then paint, giving it a more finished look for very cheap. I also considered boxing in the refrigerator, to give a more polished look. I'm not sure, again, if that would be worth it. Minimal effort / money (diy), but unsure. 

    Appliances: Will evaluate for ability to clean up / functionality. I may go with a stainless or black package. One question is, for the stove top, should it be glass or coils? As nice as glass is, it is harder to maintain and more prone to damage and I'm not sure a tenant will care much one way or the other? 

    Countertop: I can cheaply put in a nice laminate IKEA countertop, or I can go the level 1 granite route. I'm not sure which will give me the best ROI. There is not a lot of counter space, so I'm estimating around $150 for laminate (diy) and $1,000 for granite. I'm not sure how much more granite would get me in this scenario, if anything.

    Sink: Not sure if I should re-use or replace. May depend on the countertop choice. Faucet will be updated with a pull down most likely. 

    Lighting/Electrical: The main fixtures will be updated with something matching current style. Update receptacles to white. 

    Backsplash: Probably a subway tile look, either real or stick-on.

    Paint: I'm not sure what is going to match the tile and these pictures aren't the best. TBD

    Laundry Closet: Should I add a bi-fold door here? I am thinking about adding additional storage in there, either shelves or cabinets, as well. There is not a lot of storage space in this kitchen. It's hard to see in the photos, but it's to the right when walking into the kitchen.

    Note: I attached an additional photo that gave me some inspiration regarding closing in the refrigerator and color schemes / fixtures.

    I'd love to hear feedback from others who have tackled similar projects. Which upgrades are worth it and which are not? Any suggestions I haven't thought of yet? Thank you!

     Here's the trick. Take a look at comparable rentals in the price range you were looking for and match that. No more, no less. 

    If you do more it's senseless. If you do less you aren't going to hit the rents you want. 

    2Reply
  • Johann Jells
    Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Angotti:

    If you do more it's senseless. If you do less you aren't going to hit the rents you want. 

    While that is sensible and simple, it doesn't account for easier turnover, which can be real money if you don't fill it quickly. And being more desirable if not more expensive allows you to be more choosy among applicants. So there are upsides to 'over-renovating', especially if it's DIY.

    0Reply
  • Anthony Angotti
    Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 846 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Johann Jells:
    Originally posted by @Anthony Angotti:

    If you do more it's senseless. If you do less you aren't going to hit the rents you want. 

    While that is sensible and simple, it doesn't account for easier turnover, which can be real money if you don't fill it quickly. And being more desirable if not more expensive allows you to be more choosy among applicants. So there are upsides to 'over-renovating', especially if it's DIY.

    Understood. However, in my experience you won't see those returns as far as much direct ROI is concerned. By easier turnover are you referring to just more rugged materials to "tenant proofing" places.

    0Reply
  • Johann Jells
    Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Angotti:
    Originally posted by @Johann Jells:
    Originally posted by @Anthony Angotti:

    If you do more it's senseless. If you do less you aren't going to hit the rents you want. 

    While that is sensible and simple, it doesn't account for easier turnover, which can be real money if you don't fill it quickly. And being more desirable if not more expensive allows you to be more choosy among applicants. So there are upsides to 'over-renovating', especially if it's DIY.

    Understood. However, in my experience you won't see those returns as far as much direct ROI is concerned. By easier turnover are you referring to just more rugged materials to "tenant proofing" places.

    No, I mean making it easier to rent quickly at the same price point as less attractive units rather than trying to get more rent. It's still ROI, albeit less direct than simply higher rent. And being able to be more choosy will let you get tenants less likely to destroy the place. More ROI.

    0Reply
  • Louis D.
    Rental Property Investor · 95660 · Member since 2018 · 46 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    Wow, you have a lot of great feedback! 

    The idea is to not over do it for the neighborhood. On the other hand I recommend granite anytime the budget allows because granite will look better, and more importantly it is more durable. Quartz is also an alternative. Long term pre fabricated granite or quartz for a rental you are keeping.

    Look to an imported cabinet shop and granite shop for pricing and design help. You will find their prices cheaper than the big box stores and better quality dollar for dollar. 

     If you paint the cabinets you have now, that does give you the option  to add or modify then paint. 

    As for the Washer/dryer as a renter I would pay an extra 25.00 or 50.00  a month rent as a renter to have a place to put my stack able washer/dryer. It takes time to go to the laundromat and I would pay more to NOT have to. Also have them get renters insurance and put you as a rider.   Not a lot of money but gives you additional protection.  

    If your water heater is that old, it's on it last leg. You can do it now or later but it may not last long.

    0Reply
  • Brian Ellis
    Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Phillip Rosin:

    Jumped onto my trusty 3d software for a quick visual. Here is what it might look like if the refrigerator was relocated next to the laundry. Wouldn't be a lot of work in all honesty, but not sure if it would be worth the effort? It would make it seem a lot more open. I would just have to see how it makes the living room look 


    If it were me I would remove that wall all together and add an island. I’d extend the countertop over to the slider and just adjust where the fridge is. And most importantly I would update that tile. The flooring is the biggest eyesore you got going on there.


    goodluck! 

    0Reply
  • Johann Jells
    Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Louis D.:

    Wow, you have a lot of great feedback! 

    The idea is to not over do it for the neighborhood. On the other hand I recommend granite anytime the budget allows because granite will look better, and more importantly it is more durable. Quartz is also an alternative. Long term pre fabricated granite or quartz for a rental you are keeping.

    But size matters buying granite. If he doesn't move the fridge, he's looking at only 16 sq ft of stone max. I could not find a stone supplier that would do a job under $1000 because of the fixed costs of measurements, cutting the sink, and installation. The DIY granite tile looks great, wears as well as slab, is more repairable, and costs $8.30/ft in stone, ply and Ditra underlayment, plus thinset and grout. It might not be worth it to pay someone to do it, but DIY it works out very well.

    1Reply
  • Craig Jeppesen
    Rental Property Investor · Chubbuck, ID · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 466 votes
    6y

    Grey walls, new counters, stainless appliances, recessed lighting, lvp floors, new modern hardware, tile backsplash.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Hayward, CA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 55 votes
    6y

    I focus on buy and holds in B neighborhoods, remodel everything myself (and with the help of my employees), and have zero problems making my places the best ones in the neighborhood.  None of that "match your neighbors junky place" or "don't overdo your place for the area" crap for me.  That being said, it's all about design/layout and providing all that you can without overdoing it on expensive upgrades.  Here is my go to ideas for this kitchen.

    1. If the place is an 1100 sq ft 3/2 the I am looking to get everything out of the house as much as possible.  Washer dryer hookups in the garage (tenant provides their own machines), water heater either in the garage or in a water heater enclosure in the side yard.

    2. I ALWAYS put refrigerators in corners, ALWAYS.  They dwarf the look of a room when they are front and center and they block nice lighting from space to space.

    3.  Always look to open up spaces and add, or enlarge, windows.  This kitchen appears to not have any windows except for the patio door.  You could consider a skylight to bring in natural light.

    4. Granite over laminate 100%.  Laminate doesn't last as long.  I am not concerned about the costs right now, I'm thinking of the complete return on the investments made into the property.  Granite helps tenant proof, so that I don't have to spend extra time at a vacancy 10 years from now taking out laminate/sink/etc. to redo it.  That being said, make sure those cabinets can stand up to another 15+ years of use.

    So, specifically this kitchen, I would be looking to tear that kitchen wall back to be even with the hallway entrance to open up the area, moving the laundry elsewhere, and moving the refrigerator to the right of the sink, after removing whatever is beyond the cabinet that is to the right of the sink (it looks to be a closet maybe for another room?).  Extend the cabs and counter to the left of the stove towards the patio door as you have shown in some drawings.  Definitely redo the lighting.  If I was replacing the kitchen entirely I would move the sink to where the stove is to put in a large window over the sink and put the stove where the dishwasher is.  I would also focus some effort on whatever is viewed through that patio door and that new kitchen window.  I don't bother with stainless steel appliances, if you need to dress up your place with a sheet of metal you've missed the real designs that truly improve the place.

    2Reply
  • Justin V.
    Rental Property Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 214 posts · 132 votes
    6y

    @Victor S.

    Second this. Don’t shrink the flow to the next room or enclose the kitchen further. Open it up when you can, but never close it in.

    0Reply
  • Peice Livingston
    Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2019 · 38 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    @Phillip Rosin I would put new appliances and the floors as long as the cabinets are sturdy leave them

    1Reply
  • Marita Jojo
    Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 116 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    @Phillip Rosin which software you use for the 3D drawings ?

    0Reply
  • Patrick McGrath
    Rental Property Investor · Westminster, MD · Member since 2014 · 165 posts · 221 votes
    6y

    @Phillip Rosin

    Reface the cabinets with shaker style doors, slow close hardware and nice modern pulls(amazon has the best prices for nice pulls) I have done the peel and stick subway tiles (order off amazon, 1/3 the cost from HD) they look great and are easy. Get stainless appliances from the used appliance store or market place, 100% glass top. You have a small counter space, get the granite and under mount sink, neutral color and never have to replace. It you want to class it up get the under cabinet led from ikea for $40.

    I build the shaker cabinet doors myself. About $250 in wood, $150 in hardware and $50 in paint (berh acrylic cabinet paint and 1/4 nap roller)

    This will cost less, update the kitchen, get it rented and you can save for “nicer” upgrades down the road.

    Just my 2 cents* good luck

    1Reply
  • Phillip Rosin
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    Continued thanks to everyone for your input. @Marita Jojo I use Google Sketchup. They have a free version that I have been using for a few years to to plan my reno work. I may eventually look into what the paid versions provide, but so far I've gotten by fine with the free version. I've considered starting a side job doing layouts for people, but haven't pulled the trigger quite yet. I'd upgrade if/when that happened. These drawings were quickly thrown together, but I can do much more detailed / custom work. 

    1Reply
  • Jessica Franco
    Rental Property Investor · Charlotte · Member since 2019 · 70 posts · 34 votes
    6y

    @Phillip Rosin 

    Great post, I’ve just spent the last few minutes reading the responses, there’s lots of great info listed here!

    We are in the same boat as you. We currently live in one side of our duplex. We managed to bump the rent up in our other unit from $825 to $995 with just cleaning/shampooing the carpets, appliances, and some touch-up paint. However, they were built in the late 1990s and evidence of that is all around, with floral wallpaper and gold hardware throughout the property. Since we live in one side we have been doing some upgrades and doing the work ourselves to justify raising the rent when we move out. So far we have ripped out the green laminate flooring and old, dingy carpets, replaced it with LVP, got rid of the wallpaper and repainted. We are now working on the kitchen, we plan on painting the cabinets white as they are still in good condition, we just don't like the orange/golden oak look, will also be adding hardware and backsplash. The current countertops are green, like moldy cheese green! They are also chipped and have cuts (I'm pretty sure no cutting boards were ever used) We will be replacing the, just can't decide between laminate, solid surface, granite etc. It seems like granite has been the popular choice, the only thing is that the bathrooms have the same green laminate so we will need to replace those too. It could get pricey for us, but as mentioned before by a few, granite could really help with the overall ROI and not having to replace laminate every few years. We also plan on changing out the florescent light and slowly replacing the white appliances with stainless steel. We have found an awesome vendor who organized brand-new stainless-steel appliances for us on FB market place, I guess he gets them on those pallet sales they do and then sells them from his storage unit, not sure if it's legal, but hey we get a good deal. I've attached some pictures of what the kitchen looked like when we moved in and what we have done so far.

    0Reply
  • Phillip Rosin
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    @Jessica Franco I like the layout and am a little jealous that you have nice cabinets to start with. I'll have to see how the boxes are in mine and if they aren't the best, I'll probably just replace them. I think paining your cabinets white is a great idea. Should really brighten things up as well. The floors look great too! Great job so far. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

    1Reply
  • Phillip Rosin
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed as much as I would love to rearrange everything, this is an on slab building and I'm uncertain whether the plumbing runs under the slab (will find out once I get in there). Plus, plumbing work can get pretty expensive and I don't want the liability of doing that work myself (I felt differently about my personal home previously, however). There really is not anywhere else for the laundry to go, so it must remain there. Each unit is a 3/2 and just under 1100 sqft, so there isn't really any space that isn't in use. I'm not looking to completely rearrange the space, just get a bit more storage and work surface, if possible. Finding a new location for the fridge seems to be about my only budget friendly option, should I decide to go that route. 

    1Reply
  • Johann Jells
    Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    6y

    It's kinda funny how the crowd seems divided between 'practical' and 'optics'. I read an article that said a lot of people stuck at home are finding the long trendy "open plan" to be greatly annoying when everyone is actually home. Fortunately for me my ancient units are not suitable for even considering opening up, but they're what people expect in old neighborhoods. Same with décor, timeless classics rather than trendy finishes. I personally would HATE white painted cabinets, it looks like doctor's office and shows every dirty fingerprint. But it sure is trendy!

    1Reply
  • Louis D.
    Rental Property Investor · 95660 · Member since 2018 · 46 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    Johann Jells, I get the "I personally HATE white painted cabinets" I have remodeled kitchens for decades and I started in NYC building furniture, so I like wood grain, but white is the leading choice right now the same way oak use to be in the 80s and 90s on the west coast. White came on strong in Nor Cal around 2007 and Florida has liked white cabinets longer than the West Coast. Personally I would take natural maple cabinets over white. Now as a rental? White is easy to repair and work with over the long term. You don't have white cabinets in your home do you?

    0Reply
  • Marina Feldberg
    Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Phillip Rosin Would you mind sharing what software do you use for your sketches?

    0Reply
  • Phillip Rosin
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    @Marina Feldberg Google Sketchup. I added a few more details a few posts up.

    1Reply
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