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Updated over 5 years ago, 04/16/2019
The Occupants from Hell!
I am currently dealing with some occupants (who are no more than squatters) and getting them out so I can get in and start the rehab has been a daunting process. Typically, I get them out with cash for keys and it is never easy, but usually effective.
In this case, I purchased the property (practically stole it on price and terms)Feb 28th of this year and am still working on getting these morons out. I offered them $6k! for keys and they did not take it. I started eviction and they have used every tactic in the book to cause delays and extend the process. On the final hour before the summary judgement hearing, one of the two occupants filed for BK causing another 45 day or so delay. Unfortunately in CA, the laws, for some stupid reason, reside with occupants and not the legal owners. (I wont even get started on politics here!)
The good news is that I was able to have summary judgement against one of the occupants and already filed for the Sherriff to remove her from the premises. Should be within the next week or so for that. The kicker is that once it happens, her boyfriend still has rights to be there (until he is finally evicted) so I am quite sure she will just come right back. When that happens, I will make damn sure I make their lives as miserable as possible for the problems they have caused me. How can I do that legally you might ask? I will have periodic visits to the property and when I see she is there, I will call the Sherriff and inform them that she is illegally trespassing on my property and I want her removed/arrested. I will do this as many times as it takes until they get the point or until summary judgement against him occurs. Either way, screw them both!!! :roll:
What comes around goes around and theirs is coming.
***Update as of today 1-31-16: 5 years and 32 thread pages later, this is still ongoing. The following link was created by a BP Member in support of my situation found on page 32 of this thread. https://www.gofundme.com/OccupantsfromHell
This was approved by the heads of BP to be live in this thread. ***
AAAHHH!!!! I just sat here for three hours and read the entire thread from the beginning and I need to hear a resolution! I need to know the squatters are gone and @Will Barnard
got to rehab the place and sell it for a massive well deserved profit. This story has been crazy. HOLY FREAKIN $HIT!
Originally posted by @Nusrat Khan:
AAAHHH!!!! I just sat here for three hours and read the entire thread from the beginning and I need to hear a resolution! I need to know the squatters are gone and @Will Barnard
got to rehab the place and sell it for a massive well deserved profit. This story has been crazy. HOLY FREAKIN $HIT!
No end to this nightmare yet. I am waiting to hear back from my attorney on the eviction ongoing. Hopefully I can get occupancy soon and start the rehab. There will be NO massive profits on this one due to all the holding costs and attorney costs, however, if I can get in soon, there may be a small one.
Wow that sucks! Well maybe you should focus on area's with quality people (Even if the Margins are a little thinner) its less headache my philosophy is my sanity is worth more. Best wishes my friend [email and solicitation removed]
Originally posted by @Alwell Brown:
Wow that sucks! Well maybe you should focus on area's with quality people (Even if the Margins are a little thinner) its less headache my philosophy is my sanity is worth more. Best wishes my friend [email and solicitation removed]
Did you read the thread?
TL;DR ;-)
@Will Barnard, there are lot of investors here who would like to buy you a drink when this sad tale is completed. Too many for you to drink (at once, anyway), so accept my wishes for a hell of a bidding war when this thing finally gets on the market. That's probably a more practical gift, anyway.
OMFG. This is sadly a great example of how our courts can be screwed up by a few people or the prevailing sentiment. Fortunately, this extreme isn't the norm.
Had this happened to me, or any of us, early in our investing careers, it likely would have been a career killer.
Congratulations to @Will Barnard(and his lender) for his perseverance and patience seeing this fiasco through to the end.
@Michaela G. thanks for looking out but over the years, I have dealt with enough trolls on this site that I typically let them hang themselves. Clearly they do not read the thread or understand the key points and factors yet chime in with their advice and it is 99.99% way off track, but again, thanks for having my back.
@Darrin Carey You are correct, if this would have happened to any newbie or possibly even a 2-3 year experienced investor, it could have been devastating, thankfully I have had the time, experience, and financial ability to weather the longest occupant nightmare storm everybody has ever heard of. And to think all I had to do was get property management! LOL :)
After reading this thing I really wish you had a picture of this tenant his girlfriend (although she hasn't been mentioned in a long time) and the opposing attorney, it would give even more color to this story.
It's crazy to condense these 4 years into about an hour of reading and see all the cycles of this mess. The good news for Will is that there seems to be some level of hope that money can still be made after all this.
Just curious if I put this together right so the purchase price was 250k holding fees have been 40k for a total of 290k? I am sure there are other attorneys fees etc that need to be added to that number and your ARV is 500k? What is your repair budget? You mentioned you're doing a total gut? Just curious about the current numbers.
@Will BarnardYou have been an awesome example of patience and doing things the proper legal and lawful way no matter the frustrations. People can learn a lot from this crazy story thanks for sharing. The day the DB leaves is there going to be a party?
I'm happy for you that this saga is coming to an end! Hopefully, he just wanted a place to live for free and won't continue to cause you grief after he's out.
I take continuing education classes for my real estate license, many provided by title companies. An example they often give of why we need title insurance is in case of any unrecorded claims, such as an heir. I was shocked to find that you were not covered for this claim! After suffering through this, do you think title insurance is worth having? Would an enhanced policy have covered this? I buy a lot of foreclosures (mostly REOs, always unoccupied) and after reading this thread fear I may have a false sense of security. Have you ever actually been able to use a title insurance policy?
Originally posted by @Lance Wakefield:
After reading this thing I really wish you had a picture of this tenant his girlfriend (although she hasn't been mentioned in a long time) and the opposing attorney, it would give even more color to this story.
It's crazy to condense these 4 years into about an hour of reading and see all the cycles of this mess. The good news for Will is that there seems to be some level of hope that money can still be made after all this.
Just curious if I put this together right so the purchase price was 250k holding fees have been 40k for a total of 290k? I am sure there are other attorneys fees etc that need to be added to that number and your ARV is 500k? What is your repair budget? You mentioned you're doing a total gut? Just curious about the current numbers.
@Will BarnardYou have been an awesome example of patience and doing things the proper legal and lawful way no matter the frustrations. People can learn a lot from this crazy story thanks for sharing. The day the DB leaves is there going to be a party?
Thanks for the kind words and thoughts. Regarding the numbers, you are off a bit. Purchase was $205k, holding costs have been about $85k so far (and climbing) and rehab will be around $75k, but that too can change depending on what I see when I actually get in.
Exit is around $500k though at the moment but that could change too by the time I get possession, renovate, and get to market which is at least 5 months from now.
Originally posted by @Amy A.:
I'm happy for you that this saga is coming to an end! Hopefully, he just wanted a place to live for free and won't continue to cause you grief after he's out.
I take continuing education classes for my real estate license, many provided by title companies. An example they often give of why we need title insurance is in case of any unrecorded claims, such as an heir. I was shocked to find that you were not covered for this claim! After suffering through this, do you think title insurance is worth having? Would an enhanced policy have covered this? I buy a lot of foreclosures (mostly REOs, always unoccupied) and after reading this thread fear I may have a false sense of security. Have you ever actually been able to use a title insurance policy?
No title insurance or any amount of extended coverage would cover this situation. It is one of those things that just never happens (until now) and if you read title insurance exclusions, they specifically state that unrecorded items are not covered. Additionally, this was an issue that was brought into family court, well outside of any title policy coverage where the occupant claimed to be married to the seller when that was not true, but the argument was enough to cause this situation and the party and the attorney were successful in dragging this out for this long (plus the crap court system certainly aided and abetted).
Did you ever figure out how this guy's attorney was getting paid all this time? Hard to believe attorney was doing this on contingency, unless it was a relative or something.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Did you ever figure out how this guy's attorney was getting paid all this time? Hard to believe attorney was doing this on contingency, unless it was a relative or something.
That is one of the seven (now 8) mysteries of the world! I can only guess that the money he did not have to pay at times for mortgage or rent was used to pay the attorney and I can also guess the attorney was both cheap and did not get paid everything he was billing for. But these are just guesses.
Holy wow I am blown away by this thread, read the whole thing end to end.
Kudos to you sir for your patience, and sticking with it.
I admit, I felt conflicted a few pages back when I read that even after the new judge (the tough lady - good on her btw!) was appointed you still made a cash for keys offer? I was cringing - but, totally understand: you are the one paying the attorney and stuck with all the costs, even if its a home run court case, still worth trying to buy them out.
Boy was I glad when I read the conclusion that you WON the case! I was ecstatic - howling with joy for you! :)
I am following this thread hoping to see updates on the eviction and I hope you can share some great success stories after about how you sold this property and made a bundle - you deserve a big happy ending on this one!
What really scares me about the whole thing is that like you say - no insurance would have covered this:
- Home insurance: Nope, no claim there.
- Title insurance: Nope, no claim there (and this one really was educational to me that it wouldn't kick in for a situation like this - ouch!)
- Landlord "legal" insurance (I've seen this offered in some places - namely Canada, a hundred bucks a year and they pay up to 100K of legal fees (lawyers etc) for anything arising out of your being a landlord) - but since these folks weren't tenants, the plan would probably weasel out of paying for this!
Phew, I'm just boggled by how bad the court system let you down. An honest investor just making a living gets absolutely screwed for years with all the delays and so on.
I concur with all the others asking: How did the opposition lawyer get paid??? Was he hoping for a big payout if they miraculously won the case and maybe sold the home? He took a flyer on a really bad contingency then - hope he learned a lesson!
If you make this into a book (or a movie!) - keep me posted...I'll be the first to buy a copy! :)
This has been an amazing/horrifying thread to read (and I have read the whole dang thing). I am seriously afraid I would have done bad things and claimed PTSD were I in your shoes (just kidding). Major kudos to you for doing it right and keeping things together. I do hope you get a decent profit eventually. And that your POS squatter gets what he deserves ultimately. I won't deign to say what that should be but it won't be anything nice.
An amazing showing of perseverance on your part. Any strong thoughts of keeping this property and renting? A reminder of your ( a stressful and drawn out) victory.
Thank you for sharing.
I CANNOT believe this is still ongoing. What kind of country do we live in when a man has to jump thru hoops for five years to gain what is rightfully his in the first place. I am also saddened by the fact that although not as bad, there have been quite a few stories like this in recent years involving squatters entering during a family vacation and obtaining some insignificant form of occupancy (water bill) that turns a petty B&E criminal charge into a long drawn out Civil case with the rightful owners always getting the short end of the stick, living in hotels while they try to legally evict criminals trashing their home and selling belongings. I wish I lived back in the good ol' days when if these things happened, the low lifes could be found being carried by six, rather than tried by 12.
Disclosure: I have read the thread many times over and understand the circumstance of this case and my example are Completely different. My story being similar is simply to highlight another reference to the flawed & terribly slow court system, and total lack of common sense being displayed in the entire judicial process.
@Will Barnard As always, Your calm manner and patients is something to be admired, studied and duplicated. It sounds like you're nearing the final chapters of your soon to be best selling book, If you start a gofundme I would gladly contribute!!
Originally posted by @Mike McKinzie:
Yep, been there and done that Will. Have had a few Sheriff Lock Outs and put the furniture out on the driveway. Good luck. Too bad there aren't more "creative" ways to get occupancy of your property!
There are...but we don't want to wind up behind bars, do we now LOL.
Wow. Just read the entire thread and it was far more entertaining than I imagined when I stumbled onto it. Kudos for your patience, your professionalism, and your willingness to share.
This has been quite the long saga of bad news, bad luck, and well, just bad all the way around. I had court today on the unlawful detainer action suit I brought against the occupants after finally winning the family court case several months back.
It sure is time for some good news finally, right!!!???? . . . . . I mean really, four and a half plus years of this already!
And.....? The way you're setting up the post it almost looks like bad news again. I hope I'm misreading that.
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
And.....? The way you're setting up the post it almost looks like bad news again. I hope I'm misreading that.
You have not misread anything . . .
As it turns out, and for the third time now (twice by a family court clerk and now the civil court clerk) a clerical error was made and of course, at my expense. The clerk checked off the defendant as pro per so the service went to the defendants rather than their attorney. So guess what, I cant have my case heard today unless I want to open up all kinds of appeals doors. So my attorney said we should be able to get in next week or so but not much longer of a delay than that. I of course have my doubts based on history of this case.
So, the jack a** attorney sent someone in his stead and they claimed that he is on vacation and will not return until October 15th. Like sure, he just happened to take a month+ vacation right now knowing he had this case coming soon. Such BS and I always am on the loosing end of the stick. Another month I must wait and another month of attorney costs, taxes, insurance, mortgage payments and all out of my pocket, not the courts, not the occupants, not the clerk's, just mine. I have tens of thousands spent already in attorney fees and court costs, and close to $100k in other holding costs. The only saving grace at the moment is the fact that the value has gone up since the start in 2011 and is the only reason this ordeal is even bearable.
I'm sure I will have more bad news next month for you all to read about. I may need to take up a collection for those on BP taking pity on me, perhaps like a buck from all 200 thousand members?
I think you should start a kickstarter or indie-gogo campaign and everybody that donates will get an invitation to the party that you'll throw once you get the house. It'll be potluck and BYOB with the house being in the condition that you got it back, so, there won't be much more cleaning up after.
I think we all learned from this and if everyone that read this donates something - and most won't be in the area to attend the party - you should get something together. And everyone will get photos of the party.
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
I think you should start a kickstarter or indie-gogo campaign and everybody that donates will get an invitation to the party that you'll throw once you get the house. It'll be potluck and BYOB with the house being in the condition that you got it back, so, there won't be much more cleaning up after.
I think we all learned from this and if everyone that read this donates something - and most won't be in the area to attend the party - you should get something together. And everyone will get photos of the party.
Ditto... If not, then @Will Barnard... where should I send my bucks?
Originally posted by @Marcia Maynard:
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
I think you should start a kickstarter or indie-gogo campaign and everybody that donates will get an invitation to the party that you'll throw once you get the house. It'll be potluck and BYOB with the house being in the condition that you got it back, so, there won't be much more cleaning up after.
I think we all learned from this and if everyone that read this donates something - and most won't be in the area to attend the party - you should get something together. And everyone will get photos of the party.
Ditto... If not, then @Will Barnard... where should I send my bucks?
Thanks but leave the bucks in the forest where they belong! The kickstarter idea is very good though!!