Spokane, WA - New House - Already Having Sewer Backup Problems!

[Bryanna Mendoza]

I'll start from the beginning, because there are lots of little details I need to explain in order for you guys to fully understand the situation. (All names are substituted by fake ones for privacy reasons.)

In April 2016, I purchased my first house for $134,800 in Spokane, WA (primary residence) - yay, no more renting! A 3 BR/2BH (2 bedrooms upstairs with one full bathroom and one master bedroom downstairs with a .75 bathroom). My father was my real estate agent. The owners before me were house flippers who bought it for cheap ($40,000) in May 2015 and 11 months later had put enough work into it to make it a turnkey SFR. New stainless steel appliances, remodeled kitchen, remodeled bathrooms, new carpet/paint/vinyl windows/roof. Cosmetically solid and really nice; I wanted it the minute I saw it.

The first week after moving in, there was a knock on my door. Her name was Kay and she was the prior renter (for 10+ years apparently) who had lived there up until the house was bought by the flippers. After asking me if I was the current owner, the first sentence out of her mouth was - "I am so so so sorry you bought this house." I was confused. She said the house was in horrible shape the last few years she had been renting it and that the landlords were no help and didn't care to fix the issues anymore - mold on the downstairs walls, leaky roof, and constant sewer backups into the downstairs. I told her I had experienced none of these problems yet and invited her inside because she had yet to see what they had done to it. She was almost in tears when she was walking around. She loved the rehab, said it looked beautiful, but it was only a matter of time before the carpet downstairs would be ruined and I would be going thru hell with the sewer backups. (The downstairs was unfinished when she was living there and had no bathroom. Now it was finished with new carpet, a bathroom, and a sump pump.) She told me roughly every 2 months there was a mainline sewer backup and she would have to call a plumber to have it snaked and unclogged. Raw sewage would come out the laundry hookups downstairs when she did laundry and it would be all over the floor. GROSS! I told her thank you for the heads up and that I would keep an eye out for anything unusual.

About a month later (June 2016), I had Best Buy install a washer and dryer. (There were just hookups downstairs when I bought the house, no appliances.) We ran a test load and the water started coming up the downstairs shower. The sump pump had never turned on, so I assumed that was the problem. The flippers must not have installed it correctly or maybe the float inside it was not calibrated to the right spot or something. (I've only swung a hammer a handful of times in my life, so this is far from my forte.) I called the house flipper, Ron, and explained to him what was going on and he said he would have his plumbing guy come out in the morning to look at it. Morning comes and Jim (the plumbing guy) arrives and discovers that the problem is a huge paper towel wad clogged up in the pipe leading to the sump pump. Hence, the sump pump wasn't pumping because no water had gotten into the tank yet. Construction workers must have flushed the paper towels down the toilet during the remodel.

While Jim was still there, I brought up to him what Kay had told me, and if they were aware that there had been sewer issues with this house before. (On my title documents, all the boxes asking about knowledge of prior sewer/pipes/plumbing issues had been checked with a "no" by Ron.) Jim said they had fixed the problem by snaking the main line and then he showed me a picture on his phone of a huge root ball they found in the line. This thing was like 3 feet long! Seeing this made me feel better and kind of dismiss what Kay had told me earlier.

Well...on November 5th, 2016, my boyfriend was doing laundry downstairs and I was upstairs watching TV. (When we do a load of laundry, the washer will drain into the sump pump's tank, the tank will fill to a certain level, and then it will discharge all the water from that tank to the main line that leads outside to the city sewer.) All the sudden I hear the sump pump turn on, followed by a loud BOOM. Then I hear the upstairs toilet start gurgling and by the time I reached the bathroom, it was overflowing! The bath tub was also backing up, about a half an inch of gray water lined the bottom. I ran downstairs and the water from the upstairs toilet had seeped thru the wax seal and begun leaking into the downstairs. (Luckily, the furnace room is where it leaked down into and we have no carpet there, just cement slab.) My boyfriend turned the main water off and we immediately called a plumber.

The plumber came and told us there was a main line clog because the toilet AND the bathtub were backing up. That big BOOM was the sump pump trying to empty its tank into a wall of sludge. $370 later and the line is clear. The picture below (the furnace room in my downstairs) shows where he inserted the snake (125 feet deep) to remove the obstruction, which he says were tree roots preventing the flow of water to drain properly to the manhole located 200 feet from my property.


He also did a video inspection which is uploaded to Youtube (I can send you the link if you really want to watch it) that shows that the 4 inch clay/tile sewer pipe coming out of my house goes approximately 50 feet out and intersects at a "Y" into a 6 inch community sewer line that goes 150 more feet until it gets to the manhole in the street. I share the 6 inch line with the house directly to the west of me (#1) and with the house behind me to the northwest (#2). I drew a little picture so it's not too confusing.

In the video, it's obvious that the 4 inch line is in pretty bad shape - lots of grading issues and offsets with major healthy root growth. The clog itself was about 40 feet out in the 4 inch line. However, the 6 inch line doesn't look much better (you can see about 50 feet of it in the video). Tons of tree roots as well.

The plumber (and a handful of others I've spoken to) recommends replacing the 4 inch line because that's where the clog originated and because he can guarantee another backup happening in the future. I've gotten 3 excavation bids so far from contractors to get this done. They've all come in around $4,000. (Below are two of them, I don't have a copy of the 3rd quite yet.)

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So here's where I'm stuck. Say I pay the $4,000 to replace my 4 inch line and some day in the future, the 6 inch line has a clog. And it backs up raw sewage in my house again. I would have just wasted $4,000 and the problem isn't even fixed! I talked to the neighbors next to me (renters who have rented 11+ years there, but are moving out at the beginning of 2017) and they told me that their landlord pays $150 to have a plumber snake their line every 3 months. And occasionally a backup occurs in between those routine snakes. Now I'm even more discouraged to replace my 4 inch line!

I honestly don't know what to do next. I don't think I have any grounds to go after the flipper here for non-disclosure of a pre-existing issue he knew about because he can just say that this comes with buying a house with old pipes and that tree roots are a natural cause. (Even tho Kay said she had told his crew every day all about how often she was having problems with the sewer backing up when they were there flipping it.) I don't want to replace that 4 inch pipe if it's going to be a waste of $4,000, but I also don't feel right selling the house to another unsuspecting buyer like I was. I mean, they could probably come back on me for non-disclosure at this point, right? Especially now that I'm aware of a problem and the fact that there's a video of that problem on Youtube for public eyes to see. (I like the Karma gods and I'm not trying to piss them off anytime soon...haa.)

The right move would be to dig up and replace that community 6 inch line. And since the 6 inch line is a shared line between 3 houses, the correct solution would be a 33% split of the cost of a replacement pipe. And that would still be an eye sore of a number considering it's 150+ feet of pipe. And since both the houses that I share the line with are renters, I would have to be on the same page with both the landlords. Who's to say they want to cough up that money? House #1's landlord has been snaking every 3 months for 11 years tho! $150 quarterly = $600 a year x 11 years = $6,600!!!

One of the other options I thought about before realizing what it would cost me is laying a brand new pipe to connect to the manhole directly in front of my house. There's a manhole literally 20 feet from my front door. Why the city didn't connect to that in 1952 when they made the sewer system instead of connecting it to the manhole 200 feet to the north is beyond me. But I've been told (by these excavators I'm receiving bids from) that there is no "plug" in that pipe in front of my house so they would actually have to create a brand new one and pull multiple permits and lay new asphalt because the "plug" would be in the middle of the street, which would cost upwards of $12-15,000. YIKES!

The purpose of this post is to maybe get some advice from investors/flippers/home buyers who have been on one of the sides of this situation before. If you were in my shoes what would your next step be? My eventual plan for this property is to satisfy the 1 year on my conventional loan and move to another house, making this one into a rental. I currently am an Airbnb host (thank goodness I was the one in the house when the backup occurred) netting about $1,100 profit a month from reservations. If Spokane County doesn't enforce limits on the number of days a house can be reserved or put extra taxes on Airbnb in the future (which is highly optimistic thinking), I will continue using the short term rental platform considering I can hit market rent by utilizing only half the days in a given month. Pretty sweet.

Anyways, if you guys have any input or ideas, I would love to hear them. I'm really bummed about this whole thing, this being my first house and all, but I know it's not the end of the world and there's gotta be a way to solve this creatively. Sorry this is such a long post, thank you for sticking it out until the end! Cheers! =]

[Joel Owens]

Did you scope the lines with your plumber before buying this property?

If not you had your "right of your own inquiry" and chose not to spend the money to inspect. In court a judge will generally throw the case out as had you inspected you might have found the issue looking at water and sewer lines all the way to the street.

That sounds like a nightmare all of those connected lines to get to the street. Where I live you have one line that goes to the main at the street for each house. None of that shared stuff.

Really sounds like you need to spend money to fix the problem right otherwise issue will keep happening. You renting the house out knowing about the issue is a bad idea also.

Why not if you have good credit get 0% interest same as cash and make small payments over time?

No legal advice given.    

[Landon Eskew]

@Bryanna Mendoza I think I'm about to tell you what you don't want to hear...

Its well past time to fix this properly.  I'm sorry its you but you're going to need to cough up the cash.

Try to think back to a time you wanted to "band-aid" a major problem together.  My car needs an alignment but let's hold off for a while.  My jeans have a hole in the knee, let's be gentle with them until I can get them patched properly.  What happens?  Your tires wear out beyond use and your knee hole turns a nice pair of pants into shorts.  Your thought process is going to turn you into the neighbor who's blown $6k on what could have been fixed properly by now.

Call the next-door owners and talk to them.  Let them know you understand that they all waste money on snaking the drain and you want to help THEM fix their problem.  They don't want to spend $10k on this kind of thing either and they know that, but with your phone call they might understand that splitting that bill three ways is going to be easier on THEM in the long run.  Make it all about them, you're just there to loan a portion of cash into the fix-it pile and coordinate the job getting done.

Sorry for your woes, but I think you've got to break out the checkbook and get this one done the hard way.  Learn from the lesson that this is something that you might have to account for in future investments and deal with it out of a contingency you have built into your numbers.

[Bryanna Mendoza]

@Joel Owens - Man, if I could go back in time...haa. I will never buy a house again without putting a camera down the sewer lines of it first.

I had just a generic home inspector come do the inspection. We ended up putting 3 contingencies down that they eventually fixed: a recalled electrical panel that had multiple double taps, a service and cleaning of the furnace (which ended up not in running condition so they installed a furnace from another house to replace it), and an adjustment of the hot water limit switch due to it not being up to temperature (the shower faucet in the upstairs would be cranked all the way left and it would be luke warm, but the downstairs was scalding in that position).

I figured I would end up spending "x" amount of money getting to small claims just to have the case thrown out. That doesn't sound like a fun day...haa. I wish I would have had the chance to speak to the renter who was there before me, it may have steered me in a different direction.

I do have good credit, I'm above 750 now. I would have to wait until warmer temperatures (probably late March/early April) to get it done anyways because nobody I've talked to wants to do digging in single digit winter weather with a couple of inches of snow on the ground. They said frozen dirt is almost impossible to put back evenly and I would have to pay for the touchup on the yard in the spring if I wanted it. Fair enough, I'll be patient and wait. Probably end up snaking it at the beginning of February just to be safe. Ugh.

[Bryanna Mendoza]

@Landon Eskew Thank you for being honest! This is actually a pretty good idea. I haven't yet spoken to the landlord yet, but according to PropertyRadar and all the county tax records, he owns 38 properties here in Spokane with all but 3 of them free and clear. One of those 3 properties is the neighboring house. He's got 23k left on the loan. Maybe I may have something to look into here.

The other house's landlord lives in Montana with about 101k left on the 115k loan. They might be harder to talk to, but worth a try.

[Steve Babiak]

Your sump pump should eject to the outdoors rather than to a sewer line. At least then, when it has to pump, water will get out rather than come back due to sewer line blockages. And find a point outside that will allow the ejected water to flow away from the house.

And I was going to suggest doing a fresh sewer line tap at the front of your house, via a path in the lower right hand area of the photo you posted. That way you don't have to worry as much about the older pipe getting clogged by tree roots, you don't have to ask a neighbor for permission to excavate pipe on neighboring property, and you don't have other people sharing the sewer line (and having their CRAP backing up inside your property when there is a blockage and you are away).

[Sean OToole]

I agree with Steve on paying to go to the front of the house. I'd get estimates on both that and on replacing the 6" pipe. It may be that your portion of the 6" together with your cost for the 4" is close enough to running your own out front that it might be worth considering. These are the surprises that I hate the most in this business. Fixing it the right way hurts once and you'll get over it. Temporary solutions are just going to haunt you forever.

[Denise Yonetani]

Wow! What a nightmare! I am looking to buy a house in the area in the spring of next year. Sorry for your experience, but, at the same time, I hope to learn from your experience and avoid this type of a situation. Hope it all gets resolved in the spring for you!

[JD Martin]

You have a good attitude, being that you don't have wailing and gnashing of teeth like so many others I see on here :D

Thoughts:

1. When you say sump I'm guessing you actually have a basement lift station because the downstairs plumbing fixtures are lower than the sewer line. You're not talking about a basement drainage sump pump from groundwater. 

2. Depending on your city/sewer authority, they may be willing to take over maintenance and/or ownership of the shared line, usually with these caveats: all owners have to provide free right-of-ways, right of access, line must otherwise fit the guidelines of what 'should' have been a publicly owned line. I would check with the city/authority first. They may be willing, at a minimum, to install a clean-out that they can use a jet truck with a cutter attachment to clean the shared line and keep it clean. 

3. What you do about your own line depends on #2. If you can't get that line replaced, and/or the city and/or property owners all maintaining the line, you're only going to run into more heartache hooking your new line up to that line.

4. So if you can't do something good with the shared line, I would eat the cost and run directly to the closest sewer line that belongs to the city, and abandon the old line and let the other owners deal with the fun.

5. Any sewer line with roots is eventually going to have roots in it again. The integrity of the pipe has been compromised. There are slip-lining pipe products that can sometimes be used but I believe 4" line is too small for that. 

[Davido Davido]

@Bryanna Mendoza,  thanks for your part in ensuring our mail, rain, sleet or snow!   I had a similar problem.  Dug my 4" sewer line up by hand = 2 days hard labor and replaced 125' myself in another day, then took a 4th day to rebury.  Total cost $500 and 1 weeks time.  Now I have not used what is offered below, but I did think about it and it could at least provide a cheaper DIY alternative to resnaking.

https://www.amazon.com/ROOTX-Intrusion-Solution-Container-Funnel/dp/B00FPRQ3A4?SubscriptionId=AKIAJDT3ZWVTU3AYRRRA&tag=411plumb-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00FPRQ3A4

 Reviews:          

I have a very long distance to the main line (approx. 200 feet) so I use 4 lbs., every other year. I have had no problems in over 10 years. I use to have a rooter service every year. I use an outside cleanout and have to be careful of an overflow of foam.
By Tim Morgon on December 24, 2015

I use it as soon as the weather starts getting warmer and then again around the end of April or May.
By Carolyn Molnar on December 24, 2015

How much you use is dependent on the diameter of your pipes and how long they run. ROOTX has a website to assist with this determination. For the size of our line we do use 4 pounds each year. Do not pour this down your toilet, find your outside access and distribute ROOTX from there.
By V Ivey on December 24, 2015

 

[Davido Davido]

Cured in Place Pipe Liners can be added to 4" lines

http://www.craftsmanpipelining.com/informative-sewer-pipe-lining-videos/

[Account Closed]

Bryanna,

A few things I am finding odd.

1. not understanding why there is grey water depositing into a basement sump pump. A sump pump typically would handle ground water only and dispose of outside. If you have a pump system to handle sewage or gray water, it should be a sealed system. Once you know what type it is you can then see if there are code violations.

The other thing I find weird is why your sewer ties into the line cutting across other properties and doesn't go to the street in front of your house. When you bought the house was there an easement for access to the property this sewer line crosses? Another thing to look into, if not you may not have access to fix the line.

Recently a client of my wifes sold a house, the buyers came back on the sellers claiming they didn't disclose items even though they has a full disclosure filled out. The buyer sued and won. Not legal advise but I wouldn't let this one lie, sounds like some pretty shotty work.

[Account Closed]

Bryanna,

I was also thinking about the connection 200 feet away. If my memory serves me the minimum fall for a sewer line is .125 a foot. at 200 feet there is no way you could get the correct flow for sewer.

I have installed a few subdivisions and the main sewer lines aren't that deep. 1/8 per foot at 200 feet is 25 feet deep. There is no way it could be tied in correctly without a pump station.

If you can't get your money back I would explore tying in, in front of your house.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Sewer scopes before you buy tend to be a regional thing.... here in Portland its pretty much every home gets one... even new construction .. I just had one of my buyers do one one on a new house.. I would say 1/4 of the buyers did sewer scopes in the development we just did. One line was indeed clogged with a painters rag..

but on used houses any GOOD real estate agent is going to recommend this.

party line sewer lines are the worse.. I am dealing with one in PDX right now.. we are abandoning it and creating all new lines..

when I was buying a lot of rental houses.. I would replace sewer line if it was not PVC... even if it worked.. during rehab we could get them done for 1500 or so... its the number one problem with rental houses why not fix it up front was my thought process

[Mark Kudlach jr.]

@Bryanna Mendoza Wow what a mess! What everyone has said so far seems to be great advice I'd just like to add a couple of thoughts for ya. Like @JD Martin had mentioned from what you're describing you have what they call a sewage ejection pump installed due to elevation differences from the lower bathroom area. This should be equipped with a high level alarm as well to let you know there's a problem with the pump/float before a back up ever occurs. All of the drain lines from the top floor should feed into the main line through gravity and bottom floor section enters into a pump chamber, reaches a certain level then activates the pump and then releases into the main line as well. This said "Always" be careful for what is placed into the sewer system especially the downstairs section leading into the pump chamber. No paper towels,feminine products, etc. Basically waste and single ply toilet paper only... the end, lol. I know that's a bummer for everyone but seriously it helps. Anything other than single ply toilet paper and you have the risk of the toilet paper actually swelling in size just enough to cause an issue in any drainage system whether you're on city sewer or a septic system. Single ply tends to break up a lot easier. With all of the water conservation laws on newer style toilets 1.6 to 1.3 gallons per flush doesn't help either, I always tell my clients to flush twice to make sure the waste actually makes it to where its going (just hold the handle down longer and you'll get two flushes). Also I do notice that both estimates include a back-flow prevention device installed upon construction of the new sewer line. This has pros and cons. The pro obviously is in the event the main 6" sewer line ever backs up again you should be covered at your place if the device works properly. Its designed to let water and sewage flow one way ( to the city) and to close off if water happens to want to move the other way, almost like a little flapper of sorts hanging from the top of the pipe. Con is that these flappers actually collect debris/grease on them over time and end up causing more issues if not maintained properly. In the chance that you do replace the line ask the companies about this specifically and see what kind of codes/maintenance is required. I suggest an access cover over the devise for easy maintenance if needed. I would never install this on one of my jobs but it may be a local code. I also observed what they call a "rubber fernco" in the picture you've provided. This in it self is a disaster waiting to happen. If you notice where the black ABS pipe coming out of the pump chamber meets the white PVC pipe there's a 2" rubber boot with two stainless steel clamps on it. Every time that pump cycles it creates movement on that piping system and tends to loosen the grip of these clamps over time. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this over the years. Imagine it comes loose and someone is taking a nice long shower. These particular chambers have about a 25 gallon storage capacity and may cycle several times disconnected...not a pretty site. Make sure you get a plumber to fix this for you sometime soon. A safe option would be 2"  ABS male adapter to a IPS check valve into a 2" PVC male adapter on the other end. Also you could go with a compression check valve but glue fittings is always the way to go on a pump system.Never fernco type attachments. Other than that you have two choices really. Replace the 4" main to the 6". Or call in your area and ask if anyone has a high pressure water jetter with specialty nozzles that will lance off the roots at their source. When I perform this technique the homeowner generally gets 4-5 free flowing years. It's totally different from using a mechanical snake. Think about wrapping your finger around long hair and pulling hard.(ouch!) That's exactly what your doing when you use a mechanical snake on root infiltrated lines. Although the blades on the snake are sharp, when you plunge into a massive ball of roots the blades are rendered useless and the pulling effect starts. In most cases the lines are frail and made up of clay when roots get in(joints usually). And a clay pipe is very brittle and can actually be damaged from snaking. I do not suggest snaking roots again with clay pipes to anyone out there. The water jetting procedure should cost around 750-1250 if done properly. Also make sure they video inspect after completion to ensure every root is gone. Is it a permanent fix? Of course not but just think if done properly you could potentially get 20+ years out of it for the same 4k while renting and making a profit. Food for thought. At least now you have options. These are the options I give to my clients and thought you may want to know as well. Good luck and hope this was helpful.

Thanks,

Mark

[Bryanna Mendoza]

Man, Biggerpockets is an amazing community! Thank you everybody for all the honest feedback!

@Steve Babiak  - When that back up happened, the sump pump's backflow valve prevented the ejected water from coming back into the tank so when that water ejected, it hit the wall of sludge in the main line (about waist high in the downstairs furnace room) and had no where else to go but up so it came thru the upstairs toilet and tub. I'll have to take a picture of the plumbing and all the pipes that come together in the downstairs. It'll be easier to explain if you see a picture of it.

@Sean OToole - Yea I agree with you. If I keep band-aiding it, it'll be a money pit for sure. Just the peace of mind of having my own line pays for itself.

@Denise Yonetani - Spokane is a great city, I really enjoy it here! Glad I could help! =]

@JD Martin - Thanks JD! Trying to stay positive and not overthink this has been challenging...haa. The sump pump is submerged in a pit underground in the downstairs and the black PVC pipe coming out of it connects into the main line sewer pipe (4 inch) that stands about waist high or approximately 3 feet from the downstairs floor. I'll post a picture later this week so you can see where everything ties in. Man, that would be great if the city took over the maintenance of it! I was thinking about going down to city hall this week and asking the people in charge of the city sewer a couple questions. Just to see where they stand and what kind of information they have about easements, etc.

@Davido Davido - Haa, yes sir! It's our peak season right now, soooo many packages to sort; 'tis the season! Holy crap, you dug all that dirt by hand?! That's dedication...lol...do you remember how deep you had to dig to reach the pipe? The spot where my 4 inch pipe ties into the 6 inch pipe is 8 feet, 10 inches down. At least that's what the plumber's metal detector looking tool was reading. If I tried to dig that all by hand...that's A LOT of dirt! The $500 price tag is enticing tho. I imagine that was what the pipe itself cost because you did all the labor. As for the RootX I was thinking about giving this a try, but how will I know it works? There's tons of great reviews, but how do I know it's sticking to the roots and not just washing away down the main city sewer line? It's worth a try either way I suppose. I don't have much to lose at this point.

[Bryanna Mendoza]

@Account Closed - What I have in the downstairs is a ProFlo PF93015 Sewage Pump System. The (these are all downstairs) washer, bathroom sink, toilet, and shower all drain into it from a single pipe that is underground. It is sealed, the lid can be removed by unscrewing all the bolts around it (about 8 of them). I'm not sure if I have an ease of access, but I will check into it. This house was built in 1926 and from 1926 until 1952, it was on it's own septic tank. According to city records, the city of Spokane made it connect to the public sewer system in 1952. Apparently the neighbors across the street didn't exist yet or the street itself didn't exist yet because why wouldn't they have gone that route? Who knows. I do feel like I have a little bit of ground here when it comes to non-disclosure from the flipper, Ron. My case wouldn't be based on the fact of, yes there are tree roots and the pipe is in terrible condition. It would be based on the fact that he was aware of this and didn't put it down on any of the title documents he signed. There was a yes box, a no box, and a N/A box. I can see if he checked the N/A boxes, grey area okay fine. But all those questions regarding sewer problems, he checked the no box. They held the house for 11 months, how could they not have known? And why would they just randomly snake it? Is that just a normal procedure for a flip? Plus, I called Kay, the prior renter and she said she told them almost everyday how often she snaked it and what a nightmare the sewer was on this house. So they knew exactly what was going on, but if I took it to small claims, I'm just afraid it would be a he said/she said situation. Because I have no strong physical evidence that would indicate he knew about the problem. Or do I? Ugh.

[Bryanna Mendoza]

@Jay Hinrichs - Party sewer lines, never again! Worst party ever, haa... yea, I will definitely fork out the $150 for a camera scope on my next house. It probably would have been a deal breaker on this house if I had known about it prior to closing. I spent the majority of my cash on the down payment. If I had knowledge of what was to come, I would have at least asked for more of a reduction on the asking price for sure.

@Mark Kudlach jr. - Thank you so much for this advice! So many gold tips in your response! I do have an alarm installed on it, my boyfriend and I tested it by exposing it to water and it is plenty loud and lasts for 40 hours with a constant beep until you remove it from the moisture. The plumber that snaked my line along with one of the contractors who gave me a bid recommended the jetting. I'm gonna call around locally and look at prices for it. Sounds like it would be a solid temporary option. Thank you again for your feedback, it is very much appreciated!

[Jay Hinrichs]

IN parts of the north bay of California its a city code that if the sewer line is of a certain age it must be replaced before property can transfer ownership.

My brother in law does this work.. he is slammed.. most of them are replaced using the burst pipe method though.  its a quick 5k for 3 hours worth of work

[Landon Eskew]

@Account Closed when I was building houses in high school under a contractor I ran into a sage plumber, wise beyond his years.  He told me plumbing is the easiest job there's only two things you gotta remember:

1. Sh*t runs downhill

2. Quittin' time's at five o'clock

You're right with your 1/8 in one foot calculation above, but your units are off.  You're wanting an eighth inch per foot to satisfy criteria #1 above, which is 25 inches, not 25 feet.  How would the main line sewers look headed out of the neighborhood if they all had to be sloped that steep?  you'd be five hundred feet deep just getting to the end of the block!

[Davido Davido]

@Bryanna Mendoza, the response you received to your post is largely due to the extra thought and effort you put into it, especially by adding photos and plot diagram.  Your post was more understandable for the effort you put into it.  More power to you.  

The septic line that was plugged for me (roots) was much shallower than yours -just 2',  and it followed a declining ground level so it was never deeper than 3' from the surface.  We have a maximum  12" freeze depth here in the rainy western part of the state, so most utilities are not as deep in Western Wa. as they are on your side of the Cascade Range.  Still digging it by hand was as much a need to prove to myself that Grandpa could still wield a shovel as it was to save a little money.  As to my costs, the 140' of  4" plastic pipe I bought, was less than $300.  The rest of the $500 was PVC glues, a cutting tool,  assorted fittings, lunches and drinks.  No comment on pulling a permit.

Please note that @Account Closed had an excellent point about the drop required to effectively drain a sewer line.  We can not tell the elevation drop over your land from photos, but before repairing the existing 4" and or 6" it would pay to ensure those lines are at or close to the required minimum 1/8"/ft drop.  Please do this community a favor and some months down the road update to let us know how this problem gets resolved.  Merry Christmas.  The rush has only begun.

[Scott Ellis]

Hi @Bryanna Mendoza, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. It really sucks and I'm sure it's hard to not feel defeated—especially on your first house. 

I recently purchased a triplex on the south hill and it's a somewhat similar situation.  I thankfully did scope beforehand, and budgeted 10K for repairs.  However, I got a second opinion on the video of the scope and they think we'll be okay just rooting annually for the time being.

We're on a community sewer line as well.  Four homes are connected to it; the city confirmed (at least in our case) that we're on our own for repair costs and permits & paving if we disrupt the street.

Several thought for you:

• I HIGHLY recommend Action Drain.  They do hydro-jetting, though I'm not sure on the cost. We've used them 4-5 times on a couple of properties and they are super responsive and knowledgeable.  If you call, I'd just explain your problem and ask for one of their more knowledgeable technicians.
• I've never done this, but a neighbor said he's had really good luck with flushing pounds of rock salt down the toilet (article). It dehydrates and kills the roots. I'm curious, though, if that would be corrosive to the various pipe materials (cast iron, clay, orangeburg)
• This could be more drastic but not as expensive, but can you simply cut the trees down near your line?  Upon snaking, Action Drain pointed out the two 12ft evergreens that are causing most of our issues.  We're cutting them down in the spring and replanting further away with a species that has a smaller root ball.  In your case, it looks like it'd be your neighbor #2, though it looks like they might have at least one large tree. But in terms of the previous tenant constantly complaining, it looks like the entire northern 100ft is lined with vegetation.
• You may have already looked at this, but on the Spokane GIS map, you can actually find your house and turn on the sewer lines to see what you're dealing with. On the left menu, click Layers > Utilities > Sewer. 
• I'd definitely go to city planning and chat with them.  They're great and way less intimidating that I expected.  If you park in Riverpark Square, there's a skybridge on the 2nd floor of the parking garage that goes right into Planning, so you don't have to check in with security on the main floor.  They can find the old drawings and details of the community line and answer your questions regarding the mainline in front of your house.
• As to your legal questions, I'd reach out to Jordan Tampien at 4 Degrees Real Estate.  He's an active local investor with a legal background.

Best of luck and keep us updated on how you progress with this.

[Bryanna Mendoza]

Thank you so much @Scott Ellis! Going down to the planning offices tomorrow.

[Scott Ellis]

Hey @Bryanna Mendoza, winter's progressing.  How have things been going on your house?  Any news or progress?

[Don Meinke]

even IF you were paying 3 times as much,,,go out front and connect up close.

Liability of the three way share is more than you think.  What happens if one of those 2 have a backup and your upstream.  Think their lawyers will not come knocking looking for the deepest pockets???  Even if your not at fault,,cost you big bucks to be innocent(attorney fees).  Imagined damages are another.

OR one of them wants something on their end,,,they will still look to you to pay 1/3.  IF you go that way see if a 8 inch upgrade would be much higher,,,especially if additional hookups are possible.  OR pushed the route outside their lots.

I will bet if you 'shopped' and got lots of bids your up front costs could come down.  Seems a bit high even if they cut the street.  Here the city would require city tamp back and their pour the patch work .  But its a once and done deal,,,the share never will be.