NEED HELP!! ASAP! WATER ISSUE, $12500 water bill within 3 month

NEED HELP!! ASAP! WATER ISSUE, $12500 water bill within 3 month

Andover, MA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes

We have three water bills from the Water Department, Malden, MA. It shows water usage as follows:

1. The water usage from 10/15/2015-11/15/2015 (32 days) 16446 c.f., $3468.70

2. The water usage from 11/15/2015-12/15/2015 (29 days) 22574 c.f., $5016.01

3. The water usage from 12/15/15-1/15/16 (30 days) 18,100 c.f., around $4000.00

It costs us about $12500 for the three month's water bill.

We attended the meeting of Public Works Commission at 2/9/2016. We told the commission members that the water meter had problems. But they insisted on that there were water leaks in the building because the water meter is back to normal right now. They only gave us $4000 for credit and told us to ask all tenants to provide the rest of balance. However, we do not believe the water readings because it is scientifically incorrect. We would like all tenants teaming up with us to fight this case. Please give a call to Mayor Gary Christenson http://www.tlv.com/global/US/calculator/water-flow-rate-through-piping.html ).

From the science and engineering point of view, the flow rate of 242.58 gallon per hour is impossible. Therefore, we believe that the 10-year water meter has some problems.

We suspect that there are some malfunctions with the water meter. However, the water department does not agree with our opinions.

It also makes us very upset that the water bills take almost two months to reach us. The water reading on 11/15/2015 reached us at 1/6/2016. It does not give us a chance to fix the problem quickly if there is a leak. After we received the water bill on 1/6/2016, We immediately called a plumber to check for water leakage. The plumber could not find any leak. Then the engineer from the water department came to check on 1/8/2016. She also could not find any leak. Do you think the  water meter is malfunctioning during the three month period.

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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y

@Amy Lu

You can most certainly arrange for a testing of the meter as indicated by others.  I would also check all fixtures in the building - a couple of leaky toilets can run through a tremendous amount of water each day.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Minooka, IL · Member since 2013 · 353 posts · 85 votes
    10y
    250 gallons an hour is not impossible. Considering a single shower head can do 120 gallons an hour
  • Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    My meter checklist would be the following.  

    1.  Turn off main right after the meter.  Meter should come to a dead stop.

    2.  Usually there is a garden spout right after the meter,  shut all the other mains and draw water from the test spout.  The tricky part is to measure the water and compare it to the meter dials.  if it is like you say, then the dials should be moving very fast even for a 5 gallon draw.

    3.  Install your own meter right after theirs.  Compare the readings.

    4.  Here in nyc, I'm responsible for the meters.  I would have a plumber pull the permit and replace the #$%^ meter.

    You are up against big numbers.  Little solutions and common sense is not going to win the day.  

    I had a meter that was not read in 10 years. I paid the bills but missed the "estimate" part every time.  I had a 10k bill when the dust settled. No mia culpa from the govt.  Just "write the check" and we won't come after you.

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    @Amy Lu

    You can most certainly arrange for a testing of the meter as indicated by others.  I would also check all fixtures in the building - a couple of leaky toilets can run through a tremendous amount of water each day.

  • Welder · Aberdeen, MD · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 11 votes
    10y

    Mom had a problem like this. She lives in a trailer park and $1700 later had some questions. She was responsible for everything under the house but everything under the ground was the responsibility of the park. Turned out that the break was about 5 feet from the valve/meter, underground, and under the house. Parks jurisdiction. $1200 fix and the park had to credit my mom with the $2900 but they ensured that that section of pipe wasn't submerged the second time.

    We never found out where the water went but we're pretty concerned that she managed to acquire a sinkhole under her house for a later time.

  • Rockford, IL · Member since 2015 · 343 posts · 95 votes
    10y
    Amy Lu how old are your lines. Are the copper or galvanize? Assuming you can do the same to galvanized pipe but check. When we gutted our house and our second SFR we pumped air in lines and made sure it didn't loose pressure obviously if you do you have a leak. I would see if your plumber can do a pressure test for each unit.
  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    agree with all above.....and 240gallons/hr is only 4 gallons/minute.

  • Andover, MA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Thank you everybody,I used  http://www.tlv.com/global/US/calculator/water-flow-rate-through-piping.html.do calculation,It shows the velocity in the pipe is 2.43 ft/s.

     standard faucet today will cause around 0.3 ft/s in a ¾ inch pipe. The above calculation indicates that there will be at least 8 faucets are kept on without interruption 24 hours everyday. How is this possible in a building housing 8 persons?

    Do you agree these?

    Water Flow Rate through Piping Input Data

    Units SI SI(bar) Imperial MKS

    Pipe Grade

    JIS-SGPJIS-STPG Sch40JIS-STPG Sch60JIS-STPG Sch80ANSI Sch40ANSI Sch80ANSI Sch160DIN 2448DIN 2458

    Pipe SizeNPS1/8NPS1/4NPS3/8NPS1/2NPS3/4NPS1NPS1 1/4NPS1 1/2NPS2NPS2 1/2NPS3NPS4NPS5NPS6NPS8NPS10NPS12NPS14NPS16NPS18NPS20 Water Velocitym/skm/hft/smile/h

    Show Advanced Options

    Calculate Clear

    Result

    Water Flow Rate

    242.364

    m³/hl/hgal/hGPM
  • Andover, MA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Water Flow Rate through Piping

    Input Data

    Units SI SI(bar) Imperial MKS

    Pipe GradeJIS-SGPJIS-STPG Sch40JIS-STPG Sch60JIS-STPG Sch80ANSI Sch40ANSI Sch80ANSI Sch160DIN 2448DIN 2458 Pipe SizeNPS1/8NPS1/4NPS3/8NPS1/2NPS3/4NPS1NPS1 1/4NPS1 1/2NPS2NPS2 1/2NPS3NPS4NPS5NPS6NPS8NPS10NPS12NPS14NPS16NPS18NPS20 Water Velocitym/skm/hft/smile/h

    Show Advanced Options

    Calculate Clear

    Result

    Water Flow Rate

    242.364

    m³/hl/hgal/hGPM Equation(s)
  • Real Estate Investor · State College , PA · Member since 2009 · 594 posts · 173 votes
    10y

    @Amy Lu

    You wrote:

    From the science and engineering point of view, the flow rate of 242.58 gallon per hour is impossible.

    Why did you write this?  As another member wrote it is only 4 gallons/min.  That is usually the minimum the banks require for flow rate during a home inspection. 

    I have known of tenants deliberately turning on the water to hurt the landlord.  An chance this is the case? 

  • Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2015 · 380 posts · 201 votes
    10y

    For comparison's sake, what was your usage a month or two before this spike? As other's have said, breaking it down to 4 gallons/min, makes it much less impossible

    Quick Googling shows that older showerheads alone can provide 8 GPM, new showerheads around 2.5GPM. 

    This person says their leaking toilet used 90,000 gallons in 4 weeks(similar to your size spike).
    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100...

    My bet would be a leaking toilet. One not used very often got stuck open or something.

    You also appear to have a very high cost of water there which doesn't help.

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