Just accept it – we're going broke!

Just accept it – we're going broke!

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765606100/Reclaiming-Americas-social-compact-through-entitlement-reform.html?pg=2

I hope people will take time to consider this article and the charts/graphs that are in it. Those that think we're headed the right direction, please explain to me how? Give me one tangible statement or occurrence from the current president that makes you think anything will be different in the next four years than what these charts show. Stimulus 4 or QE 4 leading to progress when the first three did not, is kind of like the old adage of adding 2+2 and expecting to get five!

Here is what the following charts show as our current situation.

50% of households now received at least one federal check monthly.

Nearly half pays zero income tax (yes, I'm aware they pay other taxes but so does the other half already).

50 years ago the annual federal transfers was equal to 24 billion in today's dollars – in 2010 that number had risen to $2.2 trillion in transfer of money, goods, and services, which was nearly a 100 fold increase AFTER adjusting for inflation!

Entitlements now represent over 60% of the total outlays by the federal government.

When will the voting public realize we need to ride a different horse? People that are attacking either candidate personally are missing the point. In the previous four years, you can easily see the increases in all of the above. The current administration either doesn't see it or likes what they see and will continue to grow all of these items.

My simple question is, how high do the above percentages need to go before we realize it is not fixable without either declaring bankruptcy or printing so much money that we face unsustainable inflation?

Please notice that I did not criticize anyone personally, but as usual, simply listed facts and numbers as to where we have been, where we currently are, and ask how do we stop the trend? Rich

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Joel OwensBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
14y

I listened to Obama on Dave Letterman.

I try to stay open minded when listening to the candidates.

Obama pointed to "the success of America is the growth of the middle class". He said that history shows top down economics has shown to never work over the "share the wealth" practice of helping the middle class.

My big issue is he makes a statement about families sending the kids to college etc. Okay you go to college and get a degree and get 100k in debt and get some crappy job loaded with 100k debt you can't unload in BK. How does that make America prosper??

He also mentioned you help the middle class then they go buy tv's,cars etc. and it drives the economy.

My problem with this statement is that he said we lost 9 million jobs in the recession and hired back 4.5 million.

The problem is the QUALITY of jobs that people lost and the jobs they had to take as a replacement are nowhere near each other in income levels.

I would venture a majority of the new jobs are low income where you tread water paying the bills .In this case consumers will not have much discretionary income to spend on extras to drive the economy.

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    I listened to Obama on Dave Letterman.

    I try to stay open minded when listening to the candidates.

    Obama pointed to "the success of America is the growth of the middle class". He said that history shows top down economics has shown to never work over the "share the wealth" practice of helping the middle class.

    My big issue is he makes a statement about families sending the kids to college etc. Okay you go to college and get a degree and get 100k in debt and get some crappy job loaded with 100k debt you can't unload in BK. How does that make America prosper??

    He also mentioned you help the middle class then they go buy tv's,cars etc. and it drives the economy.

    My problem with this statement is that he said we lost 9 million jobs in the recession and hired back 4.5 million.

    The problem is the QUALITY of jobs that people lost and the jobs they had to take as a replacement are nowhere near each other in income levels.

    I would venture a majority of the new jobs are low income where you tread water paying the bills .In this case consumers will not have much discretionary income to spend on extras to drive the economy.

  • Homeowner · Burleson, TX · Member since 2008 · 756 posts · 376 votes
    14y

    20 years ago Ross Perot was shouting many of the same warnings during his presidential campaign. I think he was right then but our economy has shown amazing elasticity to keep these problems from being terminal so far. I guess the majority of the public believes the status quo is OK.

    I don't believe it's OK but, beyond casting a vote or making a protest card, I don't know how to change things effectively.

  • SFR Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 484 posts · 181 votes
    14y

    It wasn't very long ago that there were arguments being floated to pay off the national debt entirely, even with those entitlements. That's now a distant memory thanks to the "war on terror" and it's associated (unfunded) wars.

    Arguments about entitlements are non-starters in an economy like this. The people who get those entitlements spend them instantly, and it's the only thing keeping the wheels on the economy in tough times.

    The bottom line is that unemployed people pay no taxes, and they're a burden on the economy. The fix isn't taking away food stamps, it's creating jobs. W2 employees spend their whole checks every week.

    Growing up in Michigan, I got to listen to decades of impassioned whining about "overpaid" autoworkers. When the big three were finally able to shed all of that "dead weight", it put the state into a spin that it may not recover from in my lifetime. Seriously, the big three have cut their manufacturing and distribution capacity by half, and while that makes them profitable for now, they'll never be able to build the volume of cars they did in the past. Effectively, we've handed any future growth in that industry to the Asians on a silver platter.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    14y

    Clearly, neither candidate has a plan for balancing the budget or reducing our deficit.

    Obama hasn't laid out a plan in 4 years, and Romney -- who claims that this is the most important issue we're facing -- hasn't laid out a plan.

    Until either candidate puts together a plan that says:

    1. How specifically they will impact revenue (what taxes will be cut, what taxes will be raised, what loopholes will be closed, etc);

    2. How specifically they will impact spending (what budgets will be cut and by how much, what budgets will be increased and by how much);

    there is no plan, and there is no reason to believe that either candidate has the ability or desire to actually fix things.

    I keep hearing that Romney has a plan -- if that's the case, please point me to something that indicates what his budget will look like. Until then, Romney is just promising hope for change, which is no different than hope and change.

    Without a specific plan from either candidate, you can only assume that the candidates will do what they've done in the past. For Obama, that's spend, spend and spend. For Romney/Ryan, that's spend, spend and spend...AND cut revenue. Romney thinks we need to go to war with Iran (if Iraq is any indication, that will cost about $4T) and said last week that he now plans to keep part of Obamacare (though it's unclear if he took that back or not). And Ryan has a history of voting for big spending bills, including the largest welfare/medicare increase in history, TARP, auto bailouts, etc.

    What's the same between Obama and Romney is that they both like to spend. The only thing that's different is that Romney wants to cut revenue in addition to his spending.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y

    JScott- You're smart enough toknow that if ANY candidate actually listed the things you mentioned, they'd NEVER get elected. the other candidate would misreprexent the cuts ( like the current Medicare argument) and the entitled folks would vote against the candidate proposing it. We know what the current candidate will do-more of the same. My feeling is I'll take WHOEVER the other candidate is and hope for a difference. If no different, try again in 2016.

    I've noticed NO one has has disputed that we're going broke-lets' try something different. It isn't just the candidate, but the entire cabinet and advisers. You are not going to change the current attitude by those in power. I really prefer the advisers that Romney has currently-at least the financial ones. Rich

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    Well, if you dislike BO so much that you won't listen to him, you'll never know what his basic plan is that he has mentioned, oh, maybe 50 times.

    Something that went under the Radar Joel, was that many of the large corporations, even small ones, saw the economic crash as an oportunity to clean house, they didn't have to fire all that they did, but they saw the opportunity to cut overhead and increase profits while getting out of contracts, so they did. Then they replaced those upper end good for nothing payroll sucking tax dodgers with new lower wage earners that could move up to the 47%

    LOL!

    I don't even look at stuff posted as justifications for ones opinions based on charts, graphs and stats put togetehr probably by those seeking to prove an argument. It's the dog chasing it's tail with never ending conclusions.

    The Koch brothers should be kissing BO, thier net worth has almost doubled in the past 4 years along with record corporate profits during this time of woe for all the little people. :) Things are real bad......for most but not for some!

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y

    Bill- you're being silly again. Its' really not worth my time, but check the article, look at the graphs and see where they came from. It just bugs you cause my comments are backed up with facts-yours, not so much Your opinions and comments are baseless-thats' why you find your posts not being addressed..Rich.
    p.s. you really do seem to dislike successful people and companies. So sad.

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