Neighbor and tenant fence dispute

[David P.]

Hey guys, wanted your take on something. My neighbor next door is asking to split the cost of converting a wood fence to cylinder blocks due to my tenant hosing down the yard due to pets waste and water sloping into her side. My tenant brought 2 dogs although I never allowed them pets since the start. I'm in California and since they been paying rent i didn't want to stir things up. The cost of the conversion is $6k and the neighbor is willing to go in half. So 3k each. Should I ask tenant to split it with me since all this came from them having pets and needing to hose down the side yard everyday? I don't charge them a pet fee. Also to note the current wood fence is in pretty bad shape but was fine for it's purpose. This all came up from the neighbor side getting all the waste water due to cleaning up their pets waste.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Originally posted by @David P.:

My current rule of thumb is as long as they keep paying rent I will bend the rules a bit 

No offense meant but that is a bad business policy. Rules have got to be rules.

[JD Martin]

Originally posted by @David P.:

Just an update- The block wall is now finished in replacement of the wooden fence. I get a text yesterday from the neighbor saying the urine smelling dirty water is still ending up on her property from the front (My house is the grey one and her is the concrete front patio). She says we should of built the block wall 5-10 feet further past the side gates. Basically the water is flowing out the front now instead of the side and some of the dirty water is draining to her side. 

Im not sure what to tell her at this point. The entire block wall project was her plan and she had just as much say with the contractor as I did. I think with her property being lower it is just the natural flow of water to drain out to lowest point. I understand her part not liking dirty water get on her property but at same time it is unfair to restrict the tenant from cleaning their own backyard.

Is there anything she can actually do legally or just pound sand? I went along with her plan and it didn't solve 100% of the problem. I could offer to go in half again to have a contractor come out again and built the wall further along the front but in my eye that would actually be a bit of an eye sore. Any suggestions?

 Just to make sure I understand: now when the tenant cleans the area with a hose, it runs along the block wall and channels down the front of that little concrete wall that appears to be holding your yard back. Is that correct? 

1. What did anyone think was going to happen to water once a solid block wall was in place? 

2. If that's your little concrete wall, is it on the property line or inside the line? If it's inside the line, it appears that they ran their concrete patio all the way to the wall. In that case, they should cut a small trench along the concrete patio so that the water goes underground or put some kind of drainage there.

3. Even if the tenant doesn't hose off the concrete, where is the rain water + urine going to go when it rains? I'm guessing the same place the hosed water goes now.

4. I agree that a block wall on top of that little concrete wall would be ugly.

5. I don't quite follow why the water doesn't just drain into your gravel up top. Or are you saying it does drain into the gravel, but seeps out of the cracks in the concrete wall?

[David P.]

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Just an update- The block wall is now finished in replacement of the wooden fence. I get a text yesterday from the neighbor saying the urine smelling dirty water is still ending up on her property from the front (My house is the grey one and her is the concrete front patio). She says we should of built the block wall 5-10 feet further past the side gates. Basically the water is flowing out the front now instead of the side and some of the dirty water is draining to her side. 

Im not sure what to tell her at this point. The entire block wall project was her plan and she had just as much say with the contractor as I did. I think with her property being lower it is just the natural flow of water to drain out to lowest point. I understand her part not liking dirty water get on her property but at same time it is unfair to restrict the tenant from cleaning their own backyard.

Is there anything she can actually do legally or just pound sand? I went along with her plan and it didn't solve 100% of the problem. I could offer to go in half again to have a contractor come out again and built the wall further along the front but in my eye that would actually be a bit of an eye sore. Any suggestions?

 Just to make sure I understand: now when the tenant cleans the area with a hose, it runs along the block wall and channels down the front of that little concrete wall that appears to be holding your yard back. Is that correct?  

Correct, the water will just funnel down the block wall and eventually to the front where my gravel is. 

1. What did anyone think was going to happen to water once a solid block wall was in place? 

2. If that's your little concrete wall, is it on the property line or inside the line? If it's inside the line, it appears that they ran their concrete patio all the way to the wall. In that case, they should cut a small trench along the concrete patio so that the water goes underground or put some kind of drainage there.

That is something I need to research a bit. But yes that little concrete wall is basically holding up the dirt on my property. Im not sure who owns (Probably me since it is doing the job of holding up the dirt. 

3. Even if the tenant doesn't hose off the concrete, where is the rain water + urine going to go when it rains? I'm guessing the same place the hosed water goes now.

Yes, during our conversation she actually brought up the rain water too. I told her i have no control of where the rain water ends up draining too. She wanted to keep the rain water from my side to stay on my side. My property is perched up a good foot from her house so water will just drain towards the street but not before some ends up on her side. 

4. I agree that a block wall on top of that little concrete wall would be ugly.

I concur.

5. I don't quite follow why the water doesn't just drain into your gravel up top. Or are you saying it does drain into the gravel, but seeps out of the cracks in the concrete wall?

1. Correct, the water will just funnel down the block wall and eventually to the front where my gravel is.
2. That is something I need to research a bit. But yes that little concrete wall is basically holding up the dirt on my property. Im not sure who owns (Probably me since it is doing the job of holding up the dirt.
3. Yes, during our conversation she actually brought up the rain water too. I told her i have no control of where the rain water ends up draining too. She wanted to keep the rain water from my side to stay on my side. My property is perched up a good foot from her house so water will just drain towards the street but not before some ends up on her side.

5.I believe it does drain on top of the gravel but with the weed barrier on top and the dirt being fairly dry being in southern california the excess water flows off and goes over to her side. I don't think enough water when hosed is going through the cracks. She sent me this picture circling the cracks I think as motivation for us to continue the block wall all the way to the street. 

[Scott M.]

I recall this was over dog urine or was it elephant urine?  How much urine can this possibly involve?  You smell it?  Personally I would have gone privacy fence with a drain on your side.  But I am just as confused today as I was the first time you posted it about how much urine could there be.  

According to you, you did this 100% her way. Only difference was you did it for 1/2 less VS using Dad's crew (is that the real motive here is getting Dad's crew work?). You are in a good place.  You tell her to pound sand and you go to court and you say you did her plan 100%, hard to see a loss there.  Not that you want to go through that hassle but going back to the drawing board seems extreme too.  

So, do you smell it?  Is there a problem that you acknowledge?  

[David P.]

Originally posted by @Scott M.:

I recall this was over dog urine or was it elephant urine?  How much urine can this possibly involve?  You smell it?  Personally I would have gone privacy fence with a drain on your side.  But I am just as confused today as I was the first time you posted it about how much urine could there be.  

 Lol! It is dog urine but my side is all concrete. They do walk their dogs but they like to keep the yard clean so they hose off any urine or #2 stains that is left over on the concrete. My guess is majority ends up on my gravel and excess water ends up on her side. My neighbor just did the concrete landscaping recently and before it was just dirt with rocks so they probably did not notice it. 

[JD Martin]

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Just an update- The block wall is now finished in replacement of the wooden fence. I get a text yesterday from the neighbor saying the urine smelling dirty water is still ending up on her property from the front (My house is the grey one and her is the concrete front patio). She says we should of built the block wall 5-10 feet further past the side gates. Basically the water is flowing out the front now instead of the side and some of the dirty water is draining to her side. 

Im not sure what to tell her at this point. The entire block wall project was her plan and she had just as much say with the contractor as I did. I think with her property being lower it is just the natural flow of water to drain out to lowest point. I understand her part not liking dirty water get on her property but at same time it is unfair to restrict the tenant from cleaning their own backyard.

Is there anything she can actually do legally or just pound sand? I went along with her plan and it didn't solve 100% of the problem. I could offer to go in half again to have a contractor come out again and built the wall further along the front but in my eye that would actually be a bit of an eye sore. Any suggestions?

 Just to make sure I understand: now when the tenant cleans the area with a hose, it runs along the block wall and channels down the front of that little concrete wall that appears to be holding your yard back. Is that correct?  

Correct, the water will just funnel down the block wall and eventually to the front where my gravel is. 

1. What did anyone think was going to happen to water once a solid block wall was in place? 

2. If that's your little concrete wall, is it on the property line or inside the line? If it's inside the line, it appears that they ran their concrete patio all the way to the wall. In that case, they should cut a small trench along the concrete patio so that the water goes underground or put some kind of drainage there.

That is something I need to research a bit. But yes that little concrete wall is basically holding up the dirt on my property. Im not sure who owns (Probably me since it is doing the job of holding up the dirt. 

3. Even if the tenant doesn't hose off the concrete, where is the rain water + urine going to go when it rains? I'm guessing the same place the hosed water goes now.

Yes, during our conversation she actually brought up the rain water too. I told her i have no control of where the rain water ends up draining too. She wanted to keep the rain water from my side to stay on my side. My property is perched up a good foot from her house so water will just drain towards the street but not before some ends up on her side. 

4. I agree that a block wall on top of that little concrete wall would be ugly.

I concur.

5. I don't quite follow why the water doesn't just drain into your gravel up top. Or are you saying it does drain into the gravel, but seeps out of the cracks in the concrete wall?

1. Correct, the water will just funnel down the block wall and eventually to the front where my gravel is.
2. That is something I need to research a bit. But yes that little concrete wall is basically holding up the dirt on my property. Im not sure who owns (Probably me since it is doing the job of holding up the dirt.
3. Yes, during our conversation she actually brought up the rain water too. I told her i have no control of where the rain water ends up draining too. She wanted to keep the rain water from my side to stay on my side. My property is perched up a good foot from her house so water will just drain towards the street but not before some ends up on her side.

5.I believe it does drain on top of the gravel but with the weed barrier on top and the dirt being fairly dry being in southern california the excess water flows off and goes over to her side. I don't think enough water when hosed is going through the cracks. She sent me this picture circling the cracks I think as motivation for us to continue the block wall all the way to the street. 

 Perhaps your tenants can get their animals to piss where the soil is dry, so it will be more moist such that it will absorb moisture when S/he hoses down the area. 😂

OK, easy fix.

1. Crack-seal the concrete. They make a concrete caulk in a tube that will work just fine for this. 10 bucks.

2. remove a little bit of dirt/gravel at the top of the wall such that there's a little bit of freeboard between the top of the concrete wall and the top of the soil. Then anything but a monsoon should just soak into the ground.

Beyond that, I wouldn't engage the neighbor any further. You've taken steps which seem to me more than reasonable in attempting to address their concerns. You are not responsible for directing the natural flow of water, but nor can you unnaturally direct water onto another property. The wall and concrete does that to some extent, so I would find a way to let the water drain into the yard and/or continue to the street. What it does from the street is her problem.

[David P.]

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Just an update- The block wall is now finished in replacement of the wooden fence. I get a text yesterday from the neighbor saying the urine smelling dirty water is still ending up on her property from the front (My house is the grey one and her is the concrete front patio). She says we should of built the block wall 5-10 feet further past the side gates. Basically the water is flowing out the front now instead of the side and some of the dirty water is draining to her side. 

Im not sure what to tell her at this point. The entire block wall project was her plan and she had just as much say with the contractor as I did. I think with her property being lower it is just the natural flow of water to drain out to lowest point. I understand her part not liking dirty water get on her property but at same time it is unfair to restrict the tenant from cleaning their own backyard.

Is there anything she can actually do legally or just pound sand? I went along with her plan and it didn't solve 100% of the problem. I could offer to go in half again to have a contractor come out again and built the wall further along the front but in my eye that would actually be a bit of an eye sore. Any suggestions?

 Just to make sure I understand: now when the tenant cleans the area with a hose, it runs along the block wall and channels down the front of that little concrete wall that appears to be holding your yard back. Is that correct?  

Correct, the water will just funnel down the block wall and eventually to the front where my gravel is. 

1. What did anyone think was going to happen to water once a solid block wall was in place? 

2. If that's your little concrete wall, is it on the property line or inside the line? If it's inside the line, it appears that they ran their concrete patio all the way to the wall. In that case, they should cut a small trench along the concrete patio so that the water goes underground or put some kind of drainage there.

That is something I need to research a bit. But yes that little concrete wall is basically holding up the dirt on my property. Im not sure who owns (Probably me since it is doing the job of holding up the dirt. 

3. Even if the tenant doesn't hose off the concrete, where is the rain water + urine going to go when it rains? I'm guessing the same place the hosed water goes now.

Yes, during our conversation she actually brought up the rain water too. I told her i have no control of where the rain water ends up draining too. She wanted to keep the rain water from my side to stay on my side. My property is perched up a good foot from her house so water will just drain towards the street but not before some ends up on her side. 

4. I agree that a block wall on top of that little concrete wall would be ugly.

I concur.

5. I don't quite follow why the water doesn't just drain into your gravel up top. Or are you saying it does drain into the gravel, but seeps out of the cracks in the concrete wall?

1. Correct, the water will just funnel down the block wall and eventually to the front where my gravel is.
2. That is something I need to research a bit. But yes that little concrete wall is basically holding up the dirt on my property. Im not sure who owns (Probably me since it is doing the job of holding up the dirt.
3. Yes, during our conversation she actually brought up the rain water too. I told her i have no control of where the rain water ends up draining too. She wanted to keep the rain water from my side to stay on my side. My property is perched up a good foot from her house so water will just drain towards the street but not before some ends up on her side.

5.I believe it does drain on top of the gravel but with the weed barrier on top and the dirt being fairly dry being in southern california the excess water flows off and goes over to her side. I don't think enough water when hosed is going through the cracks. She sent me this picture circling the cracks I think as motivation for us to continue the block wall all the way to the street. 

 Perhaps your tenants can get their animals to piss where the soil is dry, so it will be more moist such that it will absorb moisture when S/he hoses down the area. 😂

OK, easy fix.

1. Crack-seal the concrete. They make a concrete caulk in a tube that will work just fine for this. 10 bucks.

2. remove a little bit of dirt/gravel at the top of the wall such that there's a little bit of freeboard between the top of the concrete wall and the top of the soil. Then anything but a monsoon should just soak into the ground.

Beyond that, I wouldn't engage the neighbor any further. You've taken steps which seem to me more than reasonable in attempting to address their concerns. You are not responsible for directing the natural flow of water, but nor can you unnaturally direct water onto another property. The wall and concrete does that to some extent, so I would find a way to let the water drain into the yard and/or continue to the street. What it does from the street is her problem.

Good point! I was going get the concrete seal caulk and also removing some dirt so that it is not perched that high up could give the water more room to settle before dripping over to her side. 

[Joe Splitrock]

Didn't you consider where the water would go after the wall was installed? The dog urine is either going to stay on your property or run off your property. Either way it goes somewhere and it is gross. The ideal situation is probably a channel to run to a drain. Maybe you can install a French drain or drain tile as @Colleen F. suggested. Don't tell your neighbor to "pound sand" just because the problem is hard to solve. There is more to being a landlord than collecting rent. 

On a side note, with 9 occupants and 2 dogs, make sure you are doing regular inspections inside the property. That is a lot of wear and tear. I would also make sure to increase rent on renewal to cover the added people/dogs. 

[David P.]

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Didn't you consider where the water would go after the wall was installed? The dog urine is either going to stay on your property or run off your property. Either way it goes somewhere and it is gross. The ideal situation is probably a channel to run to a drain. Maybe you can install a French drain or drain tile as @Colleen F. suggested. Don't tell your neighbor to "pound sand" just because the problem is hard to solve. There is more to being a landlord than collecting rent. 

On a side note, with 9 occupants and 2 dogs, make sure you are doing regular inspections inside the property. That is a lot of wear and tear. I would also make sure to increase rent on renewal to cover the added people/dogs

I think my goal right now as a landlord in California is just to keep them happy and collect rent. It sucks we live in a time where collecting rent for a service provided is considered a blessing and all this cancel/stop work culture. I want to be a by the book and run it like a business landlord but if the alternative is they stop paying and my only legal route is wait months on end for the case to be seen then i rather avoid that at all cost. 

[Craig Janet]

I know it's too late but, why not just get rid of the tenants with the dogs? How much money and time or you going to spend so they can have pets. 

[David P.]

Originally posted by @Craig Janet:

I know it's too late but, why not just get rid of the tenants with the dogs? How much money and time or you going to spend so they can have pets. 

 Easier said then done. Almost like a divorce here...some couples stay together just because the cost is too high to go seperate ways.

[Dan H.]

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Didn't you consider where the water would go after the wall was installed? The dog urine is either going to stay on your property or run off your property. Either way it goes somewhere and it is gross. The ideal situation is probably a channel to run to a drain. Maybe you can install a French drain or drain tile as @Colleen F. suggested. Don't tell your neighbor to "pound sand" just because the problem is hard to solve. There is more to being a landlord than collecting rent. 

On a side note, with 9 occupants and 2 dogs, make sure you are doing regular inspections inside the property. That is a lot of wear and tear. I would also make sure to increase rent on renewal to cover the added people/dogs

I think my goal right now as a landlord in California is just to keep them happy and collect rent. It sucks we live in a time where collecting rent for a service provided is considered a blessing and all this cancel/stop work culture. I want to be a by the book and run it like a business landlord but if the alternative is they stop paying and my only legal route is wait months on end for the case to be seen then i rather avoid that at all cost. 

 I understand the desire to get paid the rent.  However, if my choice is get the rent by having tenants that ignore/break the lease or not collect rent, I will choose to not collect rent. 

A bad tenant can cause 10s of thousands of dollars damage.  In my market the monthly appreciation is between $2k and $6k (depending on when purchased and the home).   Most homes are profitable sitting empty in my market.  If you are in coastal Ca, I expect the same is true of your market.  

Tenants that get away with ignoring lease terms are likely to continue to ignore lease terms.  In addition, they are more likely to do what you fear as they are more likely to stop paying rent than tenants that follow the terms of their lease.  

You should be enforcing the terms of your lease.  If you are unwilling to enforce the terms of the lease, you should hire a PM that will properly manage the property including enforcing the lease terms. 

Note as of Sept 1 the California eviction moratorium has expired.  You could provide a 3 day quit notice to have the tenants come compliant with the lease.  

Good luck

[David P.]

Originally posted by @Dan H.:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Didn't you consider where the water would go after the wall was installed? The dog urine is either going to stay on your property or run off your property. Either way it goes somewhere and it is gross. The ideal situation is probably a channel to run to a drain. Maybe you can install a French drain or drain tile as @Colleen F. suggested. Don't tell your neighbor to "pound sand" just because the problem is hard to solve. There is more to being a landlord than collecting rent. 

On a side note, with 9 occupants and 2 dogs, make sure you are doing regular inspections inside the property. That is a lot of wear and tear. I would also make sure to increase rent on renewal to cover the added people/dogs

I think my goal right now as a landlord in California is just to keep them happy and collect rent. It sucks we live in a time where collecting rent for a service provided is considered a blessing and all this cancel/stop work culture. I want to be a by the book and run it like a business landlord but if the alternative is they stop paying and my only legal route is wait months on end for the case to be seen then i rather avoid that at all cost. 

 I understand the desire to get paid the rent.  However, if my choice is get the rent by having tenants that ignore/break the lease or not collect rent, I will choose to not collect rent. 

A bad tenant can cause 10s of thousands of dollars damage.  In my market the monthly appreciation is between $2k and $6k (depending on when purchased and the home).   Most homes are profitable sitting empty in my market.  If you are in coastal Ca, I expect the same is true of your market.  

Tenants that get away with ignoring lease terms are likely to continue to ignore lease terms.  In addition, they are more likely to do what you fear as they are more likely to stop paying rent than tenants that follow the terms of their lease.  

You should be enforcing the terms of your lease.  If you are unwilling to enforce the terms of the lease, you should hire a PM that will properly manage the property including enforcing the lease terms. 

Note as of Sept 1 the California eviction moratorium has expired.  You could provide a 3 day quit notice to have the tenants come compliant with the lease.  

Good luck

 Totally understood. My rent for the unit is pretty substantial -$4k/month. Say I serve a 3 day notice and the relationship turns sour and they stop paying rent...if the average eviction here in CA is 6months before covid and now with covid who knows i would be out $24k-48k depending how long the process took. My point is to avoid eviction at all cost. I basically took over these units when they had hoarder tenants prior and fixed them up so paint and flooring does not scare me if its some wear and tear i gotta deal with years down the line. Im charging a good amount to cover any repairs needed. 

[Dan H.]

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @Dan H.:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Didn't you consider where the water would go after the wall was installed? The dog urine is either going to stay on your property or run off your property. Either way it goes somewhere and it is gross. The ideal situation is probably a channel to run to a drain. Maybe you can install a French drain or drain tile as @Colleen F. suggested. Don't tell your neighbor to "pound sand" just because the problem is hard to solve. There is more to being a landlord than collecting rent. 

On a side note, with 9 occupants and 2 dogs, make sure you are doing regular inspections inside the property. That is a lot of wear and tear. I would also make sure to increase rent on renewal to cover the added people/dogs

I think my goal right now as a landlord in California is just to keep them happy and collect rent. It sucks we live in a time where collecting rent for a service provided is considered a blessing and all this cancel/stop work culture. I want to be a by the book and run it like a business landlord but if the alternative is they stop paying and my only legal route is wait months on end for the case to be seen then i rather avoid that at all cost. 

 I understand the desire to get paid the rent.  However, if my choice is get the rent by having tenants that ignore/break the lease or not collect rent, I will choose to not collect rent. 

A bad tenant can cause 10s of thousands of dollars damage.  In my market the monthly appreciation is between $2k and $6k (depending on when purchased and the home).   Most homes are profitable sitting empty in my market.  If you are in coastal Ca, I expect the same is true of your market.  

Tenants that get away with ignoring lease terms are likely to continue to ignore lease terms.  In addition, they are more likely to do what you fear as they are more likely to stop paying rent than tenants that follow the terms of their lease.  

You should be enforcing the terms of your lease.  If you are unwilling to enforce the terms of the lease, you should hire a PM that will properly manage the property including enforcing the lease terms. 

Note as of Sept 1 the California eviction moratorium has expired.  You could provide a 3 day quit notice to have the tenants come compliant with the lease.  

Good luck

 Totally understood. My rent for the unit is pretty substantial -$4k/month. Say I serve a 3 day notice and the relationship turns sour and they stop paying rent...if the average eviction here in CA is 6months before covid and now with covid who knows i would be out $24k-48k depending how long the process took. My point is to avoid eviction at all cost. I basically took over these units when they had hoarder tenants prior and fixed them up so paint and flooring does not scare me if its some wear and tear i gotta deal with years down the line. Im charging a good amount to cover any repairs needed. 

 At that rent point, I expect your appreciation has exceeded $4k/month.  Historically you likely have made a profit without any tenant.  

You are using the worse case scenario in the $24k to $48K impact.  I think it is important to be aware of the worse case scenario, but best case scenario is they get rid of the dogs or vacate.  A tenant that is paying $4k month typically does not want an eviction on their record or missed rent on their credit report.  The fact that they are paying this amount of rent makes it less likely that you will experience the worse case scenario (but does increase the impact of the worse case scenario).

You also should be addressing the occupancy.  Hopefully your lease indicates no new tenants/sublease.  In March, I had a tenant add a person.  They had 11 months left on their lease, but the lease forbid additional people.  I indicate I would raise the rent for the additional person.  They could either get rid of the new tenant or pay the increased rent.  They chose to pay the increased rent.  They are now paying above market rent.

I currently have two units empty at about the same rent point as yours (mine are $3.8K/month).  One of the two is due to me terminating their lease (the other gave notice in large part due to tenants I am booting).  I hate having two empty units at the same time as my support is not such that I can efficiently handle this.  However, I chose to boot the tenants even though I knew my tenant turnover time would not be quick.  I rather have it sit empty than have a problem tenant.  I hope to have an open house on one of the units this weekend.

Your tenants are learning that the lease rules do not apply to them.  Not enforcing the lease is bad precedent.

Good luck

[David P.]

Originally posted by @Dan H.:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @Dan H.:

Originally posted by @David P.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Didn't you consider where the water would go after the wall was installed? The dog urine is either going to stay on your property or run off your property. Either way it goes somewhere and it is gross. The ideal situation is probably a channel to run to a drain. Maybe you can install a French drain or drain tile as @Colleen F. suggested. Don't tell your neighbor to "pound sand" just because the problem is hard to solve. There is more to being a landlord than collecting rent. 

On a side note, with 9 occupants and 2 dogs, make sure you are doing regular inspections inside the property. That is a lot of wear and tear. I would also make sure to increase rent on renewal to cover the added people/dogs

I think my goal right now as a landlord in California is just to keep them happy and collect rent. It sucks we live in a time where collecting rent for a service provided is considered a blessing and all this cancel/stop work culture. I want to be a by the book and run it like a business landlord but if the alternative is they stop paying and my only legal route is wait months on end for the case to be seen then i rather avoid that at all cost. 

 I understand the desire to get paid the rent.  However, if my choice is get the rent by having tenants that ignore/break the lease or not collect rent, I will choose to not collect rent. 

A bad tenant can cause 10s of thousands of dollars damage.  In my market the monthly appreciation is between $2k and $6k (depending on when purchased and the home).   Most homes are profitable sitting empty in my market.  If you are in coastal Ca, I expect the same is true of your market.  

Tenants that get away with ignoring lease terms are likely to continue to ignore lease terms.  In addition, they are more likely to do what you fear as they are more likely to stop paying rent than tenants that follow the terms of their lease.  

You should be enforcing the terms of your lease.  If you are unwilling to enforce the terms of the lease, you should hire a PM that will properly manage the property including enforcing the lease terms. 

Note as of Sept 1 the California eviction moratorium has expired.  You could provide a 3 day quit notice to have the tenants come compliant with the lease.  

Good luck

 Totally understood. My rent for the unit is pretty substantial -$4k/month. Say I serve a 3 day notice and the relationship turns sour and they stop paying rent...if the average eviction here in CA is 6months before covid and now with covid who knows i would be out $24k-48k depending how long the process took. My point is to avoid eviction at all cost. I basically took over these units when they had hoarder tenants prior and fixed them up so paint and flooring does not scare me if its some wear and tear i gotta deal with years down the line. Im charging a good amount to cover any repairs needed. 

 At that rent point, I expect your appreciation has exceeded $4k/month.  Historically you likely have made a profit without any tenant.  

You are using the worse case scenario in the $24k to $48K impact.  I think it is important to be aware of the worse case scenario, but best case scenario is they get rid of the dogs or vacate.  A tenant that is paying $4k month typically does not want an eviction on their record or missed rent on their credit report.  The fact that they are paying this amount of rent makes it less likely that you will experience the worse case scenario (but does increase the impact of the worse case scenario).

You also should be addressing the occupancy.  Hopefully your lease indicates no new tenants/sublease.  In March, I had a tenant add a person.  They had 11 months left on their lease, but the lease forbid additional people.  I indicate I would raise the rent for the additional person.  They could either get rid of the new tenant or pay the increased rent.  They chose to pay the increased rent.  They are now paying above market rent.

I currently have two units empty at about the same rent point as yours (mine are $3.8K/month).  One of the two is due to me terminating their lease (the other gave notice in large part due to tenants I am booting).  I hate having two empty units at the same time as my support is not such that I can efficiently handle this.  However, I chose to boot the tenants even though I knew my tenant turnover time would not be quick.  I rather have it sit empty than have a problem tenant.  I hope to have an open house on one of the units this weekend.

Your tenants are learning that the lease rules do not apply to them.  Not enforcing the lease is bad precedent.

Good luck

Your right in that part. There is a lot of things in between that can happen and Im thinking worst case. The dog part hasn't really pushed my breaking point. The extra occupancy and dogs added together does test my limit but I been there a few times over the last 6 months and they have been a sweet family and looking inside the house I do not see any signs of destruction. They decorated inside nicely and they seem to really like the place. I am almost certain they had a hard time finding a place that meet there criteria of large family and close to there family business (smoke shop store). There is defintely a breaking point for me and it has not reached there yet. If it does ever escalate i will start using whatever powers I have but for now it is tolerable. I also understand a perfect tenant is very hard to find. In that same duplex I actually have another couple with just 1 baby. They do everything by the book but they are also very high maintance. They call me over and repair random things that had no difference in funtion. In that sense they are direct opposites from the other unit that doesn't ever call me over and happy with just living there. 

The point I am trying to get is "perfect tenants" are rare and very few. I will be keeping a close tab on them but for now as long as my property looks to be taken care of reasonably then I am okay bending the rules a bit. Just my 2 cents.