Community Control and Landlording

Community Control and Landlording

Real Estate Agent · Cleveland OH · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 275 votes

Looking for guideance.    A section 8 tenant presented herself last month.  She was a 50's disabled woman whose's application listed a  service animal and an aide.   She claimed that her landlord did not maintain the property and a drive past the house confirmed it.    She told me she suffered from PSTD and depression following being shot.   The old social worker in me thought drive by shooting, unfortunately common in this neighborhood.    I saw her as a victim I was helping.   In no way would I have believed that she was the prepatrator of her shooting.  

Fast forward a month, there was no service dog only a neglected mutt, that was ungroomed, unsupervised and damaged a newly renovated porch required by the public housing inspection.   The dog was chained to a post on the porch while my new tenant left the home, it took refuage on the front unit's porch and pooped in the yard.  The existing  elderly tenant asked that our new tenant clean up after her dog and keep it on a leash.   She also told her that there was rat poison on the premises to keep away the pests as the next door neighbor fails to store garbage properly.   For her concern, the new tenant called the police on her, not once but twice and falsely accussed her a threatening her.   

I inform our new tenant that she was required to provide a prescription for the dog or the dog must be removed from the property.   She hides the dog in the house, a therapist calls me, I speak to her and inform her I need documentation for the dog, I also inform her that the dog looks neglected, is unsupervised, causing damage to the property and creating conflict with the existing tenants in the triplex, she ignores me and a letter on community health department letterhead shows up claiming the mutt is an emotional support animal.    I submit a complaint to the animal control department that the dog is neglected, they refer it to the APL who call within minutes of the complaint being bounced from the city agency.    By this time the new tenant is threatening to call Fair Housing Court.   We call the CMHA to report the problems with this tenant.   They inform us we are stuck with her for the term of her lease.    The problems with the dog have now escalated to her threatening the other tenant for asking her to maintain the animal.   I visit the property to speak with both tenants.    She tells me that she was injustly placed in county jail prior to taking residence and that was the reason that the dog is dirty, full of burrs and fleas.  That she was not able to have it groomed due to Covid-19.   I search court records to gather information on the inappropriate incarceration.   What I find is a 11 count indictment.

Felonious assult with a gun,  Felonious Burglary with a gun, Stalking, Aggrevated Manacing, Valdelism .....     Yes 7 of the 11 charges were overturned by appeals court, but 4 still stand and the overturning was due to the intended victim  shooting the mother and 2 daughter team while they were attempting to break into the home.    I find out this disabled woman is on Community Control.   PC term for "an alternative to prison for felonies."   I forgot the mention the tenant exhibits extreme mood swings and admits to drinking while on medication.  I mentioned I was aware of the court action and she called fair housing on me.    I spoke with them and explained the situation.   They agreed to close the complaint on the emotional support animal, and did agree with me that the animal could not be unsupervised and cause damage to the property, but when I asked them for guidedance on the community control and the fact the mental health and probation officials trained to supervise her were using virtual supervision due to Covid-19 and I as a 63 year old grandmother was being force to come on-site to mediate conflicts they told me to seek legal counsel.   I informed them that I have asked CMHA housing authority for guidance.  I informed them that the tenant needs a more structured environment and supervision then I as a property manager are trained or licensed to provide.   They told me they felt sorry for me but they could not help.   What is wrong with our legal system that the landlord has no rights or recourse.   

I am considering retiring from the profession, if this is what we are required to endure.  I would appreciate any guidance from others that may have experienced this issue.   I studied social work in college and worked in a locked psychiatric hospital in my 20's.    This tenant would have been considered a danger to society.   Now she is the property managers problem.    I am uncomfortable dealing with the tenant and I fear for the safety of the other tenants living in this tri-plex.   Any lawyers in NE Ohio that want to help. 



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Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

@Michelle Fenn, that's a long, sad story.  From your description, your tenant sounds like a real POS.

But it's not her fault she is in your property--it's your fault.  Why did you wait until AFTER she was in the unit and turning it into a slum to finally do background on her?

Ex-social worker or not, you are now in the real estate business, and if you don't step up your game and follow the basics, then yes, I'd agree--you should retire.

This is not to say that you can't learn from this mistake.  I'm not trying to put you down.  We all make mistakes.  The way to move forward is to own the mistake, forgive yourself, and make sure to NOT commit the same unforced error.

Wish you well during these especially tough times.  Good luck in the future.

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  • Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Michelle Fenn, that's a long, sad story.  From your description, your tenant sounds like a real POS.

    But it's not her fault she is in your property--it's your fault.  Why did you wait until AFTER she was in the unit and turning it into a slum to finally do background on her?

    Ex-social worker or not, you are now in the real estate business, and if you don't step up your game and follow the basics, then yes, I'd agree--you should retire.

    This is not to say that you can't learn from this mistake.  I'm not trying to put you down.  We all make mistakes.  The way to move forward is to own the mistake, forgive yourself, and make sure to NOT commit the same unforced error.

    Wish you well during these especially tough times.  Good luck in the future.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2020 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michelle Fenn:

    Looking for guideance.    A section 8 tenant presented herself last month.  She was a 50's disabled woman whose's application listed a  service animal and an aide.   She claimed that her landlord did not maintain the property and a drive past the house confirmed it.    She told me she suffered from PSTD and depression following being shot.   The old social worker in me thought drive by shooting, unfortunately common in this neighborhood.    I saw her as a victim I was helping.   In no way would I have believed that she was the prepatrator of her shooting.  

    Fast forward a month, there was no service dog only a neglected mutt, that was ungroomed, unsupervised and damaged a newly renovated porch required by the public housing inspection.   The dog was chained to a post on the porch while my new tenant left the home, it took refuage on the front unit's porch and pooped in the yard.  The existing  elderly tenant asked that our new tenant clean up after her dog and keep it on a leash.   She also told her that there was rat poison on the premises to keep away the pests as the next door neighbor fails to store garbage properly.   For her concern, the new tenant called the police on her, not once but twice and falsely accussed her a threatening her.   

    I inform our new tenant that she was required to provide a prescription for the dog or the dog must be removed from the property.   She hides the dog in the house, a therapist calls me, I speak to her and inform her I need documentation for the dog, I also inform her that the dog looks neglected, is unsupervised, causing damage to the property and creating conflict with the existing tenants in the triplex, she ignores me and a letter on community health department letterhead shows up claiming the mutt is an emotional support animal.    I submit a complaint to the animal control department that the dog is neglected, they refer it to the APL who call within minutes of the complaint being bounced from the city agency.    By this time the new tenant is threatening to call Fair Housing Court.   We call the CMHA to report the problems with this tenant.   They inform us we are stuck with her for the term of her lease.    The problems with the dog have now escalated to her threatening the other tenant for asking her to maintain the animal.   I visit the property to speak with both tenants.    She tells me that she was injustly placed in county jail prior to taking residence and that was the reason that the dog is dirty, full of burrs and fleas.  That she was not able to have it groomed due to Covid-19.   I search court records to gather information on the inappropriate incarceration.   What I find is a 11 count indictment.

    Felonious assult with a gun,  Felonious Burglary with a gun, Stalking, Aggrevated Manacing, Valdelism .....     Yes 7 of the 11 charges were overturned by appeals court, but 4 still stand and the overturning was due to the intended victim  shooting the mother and 2 daughter team while they were attempting to break into the home.    I find out this disabled woman is on Community Control.   PC term for "an alternative to prison for felonies."   I forgot the mention the tenant exhibits extreme mood swings and admits to drinking while on medication.  I mentioned I was aware of the court action and she called fair housing on me.    I spoke with them and explained the situation.   They agreed to close the complaint on the emotional support animal, and did agree with me that the animal could not be unsupervised and cause damage to the property, but when I asked them for guidedance on the community control and the fact the mental health and probation officials trained to supervise her were using virtual supervision due to Covid-19 and I as a 63 year old grandmother was being force to come on-site to mediate conflicts they told me to seek legal counsel.   I informed them that I have asked CMHA housing authority for guidance.  I informed them that the tenant needs a more structured environment and supervision then I as a property manager are trained or licensed to provide.   They told me they felt sorry for me but they could not help.   What is wrong with our legal system that the landlord has no rights or recourse.   

    I am considering retiring from the profession, if this is what we are required to endure.  I would appreciate any guidance from others that may have experienced this issue.   I studied social work in college and worked in a locked psychiatric hospital in my 20's.    This tenant would have been considered a danger to society.   Now she is the property managers problem.    I am uncomfortable dealing with the tenant and I fear for the safety of the other tenants living in this tri-plex.   Any lawyers in NE Ohio that want to help. 



    Hi Michelle, situation sounds incredibly frustrating and sorry to hear how things developed. You mentioned she has an aide and the tenant is diagnosed with a disability. Perhaps you can reach out to the agency(ies) (possibly others than mental health provider) and see if they can assist. I work with disabled populations here in CA and do usually offer multiple ways of assistance to those who work with our disabled population (e.g., reimbursement, additional aides, identifying housing).

  • Real Estate Agent · Cleveland OH · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 275 votes
    6y

    I agree this was my mistake I know better.   This was a hard to fill vacancy and a section 8 disabled older woman looked like a great choice during the 15 minute showing.    Warning to all, things are not always as they appear. 

  • Rental Property Investor · North Jersey Shore · Member since 2020 · 102 posts · 49 votes
    6y

    Fire the property manager

  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Michelle Fenn

    I feel your pain. Tenant screening is the most important aspect of selecting a tenant.  On the service dog, it’s the most abused aspect of renting.  I always ask for documentation and then verify it.  I had received a letter about a service dog.  I googled the source and it was an online scam.  For $100 they write a letter.  Called the tenant on it and they admitted they lied.  Never rented to them.  A service dog takes two years to train.  Most of it is crap. I use smartmove to screen my tenants.  It’s through TransUnion.  It’s a good resource.  Always call employers and confirm employment.
    Hope this helps  

  • Raleigh, NC · Member since 2017 · 347 posts · 94 votes
    6y

    Wow, that was quite a read.  I agree that you should have ran a credit and background check on the new tenant.  Section 8 or not, all tenants (and applicants) should be treated the same.


    Are you sure your lease doesn't have a clause about damaging the properties?

  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 861 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Just curious, was this Columbus? ("CMHA" made me think it was)..  i have been on the fence about section 8 but have not heard the best anecdotes...


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