How dirty will you let your Tenant be?

[Nathan Gesner]

We all have different cleaning standards, but some people are just filthy! 

Below are images from an actual apartment that's been occupied by the same tenant for almost 30 years. He pays 15% below market rate but has never been late once. The yellow glow is from cigarettes, not my lack of white balance. The last picture shows how even the items stored next to his bed are covered in thick dust.

Would you allow him to stay? Would you force him to clean it up? Would you kick him out and renovate?

[Matt M.]

@Nathan G.

I just bought a house like this. Same smoking tenants for 43 years. They were paying $700/month the final year. I’ll be getting nearly double that when I’m done with the renovation.

[Rose White]

@Nathan G.

I might sound naive and easy to fool, but i would allow the tenant to stay in the current situation + rental amount.

If you are concerned about the building itself, you could just ask him if you can visit to see if any “decade maintenance” (made up lol) needs to be done and check all things that could be problematic or expensive if left uncared.

If the tenant pays on time, but under market value, i dont think you should kick them away. A little bit of any humanely gestures can go along way.

Also, like ppl said, the tenant just might not be able to take care of the house due to personal disabilities or something .. i kinda want to clean up for free for this tenant Lol

[John Burtle]

I'd keep him. I'd raise the rent each year like you're doing.

[Angel V.]

@Nathan G. Im a nice guy so after 30 years of him living there I would pay a couple hundred bucks out of pocket to a cleaning company for some deep cleaning (to show my appreciation). I'll Probably also do minor updates like throw in a new toilet (they are less than a $100 bucks), etc.. And of course is time for a rent increase (to recover the money spend +, so you are really nothing out of pocket).

Option B would be kick him out and remodel the whole place, but that would be costly as some have mentioned and maybe it will kill your cashflow.

Good luck and keep us posted.

-Angel

[JD Martin]

Originally posted by @Angel V.:

@Nathan G. Im a nice guy so after 30 years of him living there I would pay a couple hundred bucks out of pocket to a cleaning company for some deep cleaning (to show my appreciation). I'll Probably also do minor updates like throw in a new toilet (they are less than a $100 bucks), etc.. And of course is time for a rent increase (to recover the money spend +, so you are really nothing out of pocket).

Option B would be kick him out and remodel the whole place, but that would be costly as some have mentioned and maybe it will kill your cashflow.

Good luck and keep us posted.

-Angel

 Oy vey - I appreciate that you're a nice guy but that would be a total waste of money (not to mention no cleaning service I know would touch that place for $250). Anyone who lives like that, anything you put in or do will be in the same condition in no time. 

[Isaac S.]

He's is quite grimy and dusty and not friends with a mop or sponge...but, I have seen worse!

No pests, no leaks,no burns, no problem!

I might get him a mop, bucket, and bottle of KrudKutter for his birthday, even he says his birthday isn't for 6 more months, I would say, you can have the supplies anyway....maybe he will get the hint.

[Larry Waters]

@Jonathan R I agree,he has been there sometime,he might want to clean up but has no incentives so the option to hire a cleaning company or rent goes up,might just do it.

[Dennis M.]

I stopped reading after I read he always pays his rent on time over 30 years . Let him marinate in his filth ! As long as he pays who cares

[Bill O'Donnell]

@Nathan G.

Its way too late to push them out. Perhaps if you had a slob that you discovered in yeat one..

He likely paid for your house. Keep him forever. If he ever leaves, get what you can in damages, fix and hope for another long term tenant.

[Anthony Rosa]

I guess the place wan't landlord/PM inspected in 30 years either.

It would be a waste of money to kick him out and renovate unless you're selling.

At this point, provided he isn't causing mice and pests to enter neighboring units, id leave it alone,let him stay another 30 years and I wouldn't tell him to clean because to him that is clean. 

[E.S. Burrell]

@Nathan G.

Definitely sounds like a mental illness. I’d Keep him and raise the rent a little at a time.

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Anthony Rosa:

I guess the place wan't landlord/PM inspected in 30 years either.

It would be a waste of money to kick him out and renovate unless you're selling.

At this point, provided he isn't causing mice and pests to enter neighboring units, id leave it alone,let him stay another 30 years and I wouldn't tell him to clean because to him that is clean. 

The seller was only inside the rental once in about 30 years. Seriously!

[Account Closed]

@Nathan G.

Just not the sandbox for me. I buy them like that but in B class areas and bring them up to standard with the neighbours.

[Tina Russell]

@Nathan G.How could the OWNER allow this? Not only is it their responsibility to do "annual" inspections they also fail to replace much needed appliances, flooring and toilets. Shame on the landlord/owner.

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

We all have different cleaning standards, but some people are just filthy! 

Below are images from an actual apartment that's been occupied by the same tenant for almost 30 years. He pays 15% below market rate but has never been late once. The yellow glow is from cigarettes, not my lack of white balance. The last picture shows how even the items stored next to his bed are covered in thick dust.

Would you allow him to stay? Would you force him to clean it up? Would you kick him out and renovate?

 My team just sent these to me today....We just took over a new property with an Inherited tenant who moved out yesterday. 

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[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Tina Russell:

@Nathan G.How could the OWNER allow this? Not only is it their responsibility to do "annual" inspections they also fail to replace much needed appliances, flooring and toilets. Shame on the landlord/owner.

 

Why is your initial reaction to jump to it being the owners fault? I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Lots of people jump to the "I'd make him clean it or I'd kick him out"

Why? Have you actually stopped and thought about it logically with the bottom line in mind or are you simply having an emotional knee jerk reaction to something that displeases you? When the apartment looks like what you've posted there is no reason for an investor to remove an income stream in an effort to empty their wallet. The cost for you to renovate it when that tenant naturally turns is going to be the same or similar to what it would be right now.

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

It looks like a kid was living there. Disgusting.

On the other hand...you can inspect and have breakfast at the same time!

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

Originally posted by @James Wise:

It looks like a kid was living there. Disgusting.

On the other hand...you can inspect and have breakfast at the same time!

Maybe even take a nice nap after breakfast? Bed looks comfy.

[Joe P.]

Oh man, this thread. Personally, I am losing my f^*(ing mind looking at these pictures. But you can't control how people live.

This has ignited a question in me for @James Wise @Nathan Gesner @JD Martin - do you guys perform (or do you have a PM) perform inspections? If so, what is their frequency, what are they looking for, and do you have any processes for curing/quitting anything found?

[Tina Russell]

@James Wise all I see is a greedy owner. It is sad to NOT check on your property. This is not only neglect by the tenant but also the owner who seems to only worry about the "bottom line" (as you said). My properties are well kept with annual inspections and courtesy drive bys. The city Code Enforcement and Health Department should have been involved because of safety issues! Yes I would first jump to conclusion that the owner failed their responsibility to their tenant(s) and was only concerned about the rent history of "on time paments." I guess this is a case of pay now or pay later and the owner chose to pay later and dearly!! Again, shame on the greedy owner!!

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Joe P.:

Oh man, this thread. Personally, I am losing my f^*(ing mind looking at these pictures. But you can't control how people live.

This has ignited a question in me for @James Wise @Nathan Gesner @JD Martin - do you guys perform (or do you have a PM) perform inspections? If so, what is their frequency, what are they looking for, and do you have any processes for curing/quitting anything found?

 We perform as many or as few inspections as our investor clients want us to. Shocker, they tend not to do them once they realize it ain't free. Inspections sound like such a good idea to everyone until they factor in the cost of said inspection.

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Joe P.:

Oh man, this thread. Personally, I am losing my f^*(ing mind looking at these pictures. But you can't control how people live.

This has ignited a question in me for @James Wise @Nathan Gesner @JD Martin - do you guys perform (or do you have a PM) perform inspections? If so, what is their frequency, what are they looking for, and do you have any processes for curing/quitting anything found?

Absolutely! I inspect at least once a year. Inspection timing and frequency is based on their application strength. If they have a strong application, I'll inspect around 6 months after occupancy. If they are a higher-risk tenant, I will inspect after three months. If the inspection goes well, I don't go back. 

If the inspection goes poorly, I schedule another inspection 1-3 months later. If it's really bad, I hit them with a violation, give them a deadline for fixing the problem, and follow up with an inspection to verify compliance. I only do this is if there is a lease violation or their lifestyle is going to cause damage to the home, attract pests, or interfere with a neighbor's right to quiet enjoyment.

I also inspect 30 - 60 days prior to a lease expiration. The purpose of this inspection:

• If the tenant wants to renew, I inspect to verify they're maintaining the rental and that I want to keep them. If it looks good, we move forward with renewal. If there are problems, they have time to correct them before renewal. Or if it's really bad, I notify them that we won't renew their lease.
• If the tenant intends to move out at the end of the lease, I use this inspection to forecast turnaround time. Will it require deep cleaning or just a light touch up? Do I need to paint, replace flooring, or do other major maintenance? By identifying the issues early, I can line up contractors and project vacancy time.

Some people go way overboard with inspections. I fired an owner a couple years ago (for many reasons) that flipped out because the tenant had clothes scattered around the bedroom floor! In my experience, most renters are decent people and won't destroy the rental. Anything left undone when they move out is covered by the security deposit. Only about 0.5% of my renters leave owing more than their deposit will cover and that number continues to drop as I improve my screening and increase deposits for higher-risk applicants.

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Tina Russell:

@James Wise all I see is a greedy owner. It is sad to NOT check on your property. This is not only neglect by the tenant but also the owner who seems to only worry about the "bottom line" (as you said). My properties are well kept with annual inspections and courtesy drive bys. The city Code Enforcement and Health Department should have been involved because of safety issues! Yes I would first jump to conclusion that the owner failed their responsibility to their tenant(s) and was only concerned about the rent history of "on time paments." I guess this is a case of pay now or pay later and the owner chose to pay later and dearly!! Again, shame on the greedy owner!!

How do you know this has anything to do with the owner or greed? How do you know they didn't check on the property? 

I had a tenant that was good for 18 months. I inspected her house in February 2018 and it was in excellent shape. Three months later it was destroyed with almost $20,000 in damages. It is possible for things to go bad quickly.

[Ryan Proffit]

@Nathan Gesner

I have one like that.  Not quite as bad.  Their kid also lives in another unit and he is dirty too.  Both are 30% below market and chronic complainers(want us to fix things that they damaged).  I am going to bump their kids rent, then I am going to tell them to vacate and turn the unit.

[Nathan Gesner]

LOL! 

I started doing the same. I'm a Property Manager and pretty good at my job. If they want a baby-sitter, they have to pay my baby-sitter rates.