How dirty will you let your Tenant be?

[Nathan Gesner]

We all have different cleaning standards, but some people are just filthy! 

Below are images from an actual apartment that's been occupied by the same tenant for almost 30 years. He pays 15% below market rate but has never been late once. The yellow glow is from cigarettes, not my lack of white balance. The last picture shows how even the items stored next to his bed are covered in thick dust.

Would you allow him to stay? Would you force him to clean it up? Would you kick him out and renovate?

[J Camilo Hernandez]

@Nathan G.

Oh helllll no, that’s not just disgusting but that has to be horrible for your health, I wouldn’t go into that place without a mask. I’d give him a notice to clean the apartment in the next 2 weeks or bump it back up 15%, I don’t know how people can live like that. It can also damage your property too i mean look at those stains

[Nathan Gesner]

Read the original post. He was already in there for nearly 30 years when I bought the place. The damage was done.

[Evan Polaski]

@Nathan Gesner What does 15% increase equate to in dollars?  And how much would it cost to rehab?

That is GROSS!!!  But getting a long term smoker smell out can often be going down to studs and redoing it all.  

For me, I would do the ROI on a rehab, but sometimes it is best not to kick a gift horse in the mouth with on time rent and no headaches.

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Evan Polaski:

@Nathan Gesner What does 15% increase equate to in dollars?  And how much would it cost to rehab?

That is GROSS!!!  But getting a long term smoker smell out can often be going down to studs and redoing it all.  

For me, I would do the ROI on a rehab, but sometimes it is best not to kick a gift horse in the mouth with on time rent and no headaches.

$700 rental and he pays $600, so 14% below market. I raised his rent $150 when I bought the property and I'm bumping it $25 each year. He'll be inching closer and closer to market rate as the years go by.

if I kicked him out and spent $15,000 on rehab, it would easily take 7 - 10 years to recover. Not worth it in my book.

[Dan Naumowicz]

@Nathan G. You are running a business not a shelter or an assisted living facility, and you are not a social worker. Give notice, rehab and find another clean tenant that will pay you market value on time.

We had a tenant just like that, when we took over a multifamily unit. Tenant had no close family and things piled up to the ceiling.

In our case we let them go, gut rehabed to increase value, got a new tenants and sold the property to another investor with a new tenants in place.

[Julian Garlington]

@Andres A.

The problem with that is , if ( God forbid it ) that Tenant dies tomorrow and he has to rent it out to someone like else , no one is going to want to rent it because of how filthy it is

[Larkin Adey]

@Nathan G.

Honestly, I would move him to a freshly updated unit and rennovate. We pride ourselves on provoviding quality housing for all of our tenants. I'm sure his family wouldn't be proud to see him living in that unit.

Looks like something from the movie "seven"

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Larkin Adey:

@Nathan G.

Honestly, I would move him to a freshly updated unit and rennovate. We pride ourselves on provoviding quality housing for all of our tenants. I'm sure his family wouldn't be proud to see him living in that unit.

Looks like something from the movie "seven"

It is awful. The thing is, why go through the expense of renovating it now instead of ten years from now? He can't really make the current unit any worse. If I put him in a renovated unit, he would destroy it!

I have clear evidence of what he does in 30 years. I'll stick with the devil I know.

[Evan Polaski]

@Nathan Gesner, I agree.  As long as it is headache free, cash flows, and more damage isn't being done let this baby ride.

Pride of ownership is one thing, and I totally get it.  BUT, an easy, painless, cashflow positive situation is even better, especially when what's done is done.  

If this were effecting your ability to lease other units, then you have a different situation, but if this is a single family home, or not effecting other tenants in the building, let it ride and count your cash each month.

[Larkin Adey]

@Nathan Gesner 

Somehow I think you might have a moral obligation on this one. I know it sounds abstract to most people, as we are always so concerned with the black/red on the spreadsheet - but - we have to answer for our dealings in this life, and if we can make the life of a person who is struggling better somehow, and we have the ability to do right - we probably should. 

Now I am not saying we need to save every tenant from themselves - but a situation like this, probably deserves some attention. It is very Un-Cardone of me to speak of helping someone, but this is America and that unit looks worse than places I've slept in Afghanistan.

[Billy Smith]

This looks one of those humans who use a bucket for a bathroom then collect buckets of fecal matter/urine. I would bail on this one yes it going to  cost money to get up to par,buy  cheap floors carpet ,used stove etc.. 

I could never allow this it would keep me up at night for sure .

[Ned J.]

Nasty......it baffles me how people can live like that....but I'm not living there so I don't care about the filth....

The majority of the damage is done and nothing is going to change the fact that this will need a full rehab at turnover...... no need to eat that $$ now.

The only aspect I would stay vigilant on is structural damage.....ANYTHING that is going to rot the floor, walls, ceiling etc or be a fire hazard...... so water leaks and electrical for the most part..... ANYTHING that is going to effect the structure of the house in a major way. ....and vermin that eat wiring etc

As long as it stays mostly "cosmetic" for items that are wasted already, there is zero point in eating the cost now....

NO WAY IN HELL am I moving this guy to another nicer unit and renovating this one....are you insane?

[Elissa Burk]

With my prior experience I'm looking at this from an EMS lenses... I'm going to give you the pros and cons I see with kicking him out...

Pros: You'll be able to update the place and get a tenant who is potential cleaner, and it would be able to raise rent rates. 

Cons: He looks like he has a disability (from the wear marks on the floor) so I'm not sure cleaning is the highest priority for him. This place is probably within easy access to doctors and family for him. Is he living off of social security? If he pays you consistently that's one less tenant that you have to worry about when it comes to turn over.

It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to renovate. 

Personally I would let him stay, but if he's laxing so much that it's a detriment to his health (and/or property, like are the floor boards falling in because of filth), call the police and ask what needs to be done to perform a health and comfort check (welfare check). 

[Carlos Ramirez]

@Nathan G. At this point a complete renovation is absolutely necessary. I own a restoration company and know that entire unit will have to be stripped down to studs in order to get rid of the smoke smell.

I would allow him to stay another 20 years and renovate later. The fact that he has never made a late payment goes a long way!

[Ryan Steiner]

@Larkin Adey funny how 95% of responses dealt with numbers only. If I didnt live in the same city as my father and he were in that condition, I'd probably ask the landlord if they were aware. If they were, especially if this guy has a disability, I'd be pretty mad that they chose cash flow over concern for someone willing to live like this.

With that being said, if the guy can afford to smoke like a chimney, he can afford a pack a days worth of rent each month to begin replacing things there.

This is worse than FOB dahlke/shank. Except he has a toilet lol.

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Ryan Steiner:

@Larkin Adey funny how 95% of responses dealt with numbers only. If I didnt live in the same city as my father and he were in that condition, I'd probably ask the landlord if they were aware. If they were, especially if this guy has a disability, I'd be pretty mad that they chose cash flow over concern for someone willing to live like this.

With that being said, if the guy can afford to smoke like a chimney, he can afford a pack a days worth of rent each month to begin replacing things there.

This is worse than FOB dahlke/shank. Except he has a toilet lol.

Do you believe a Landlord is responsible for caring for their Tenants? If a single mom can't find a baby-sitter, should I run over and watch her kids so she can keep her job? If a Tenant is morbidly obese and needs help getting on the toilet, is that my responsibility? If a Tenant chooses to live in filth, am I responsible for contacting his relatives and enlisting their help?

Come on. 

A lot of people are making a lot of assumptions about this guy. He's in his 70s and retired. He doesn't like to clean his house and smokes like a chimney but he's not leaving food around, he's not interfering with anyone, he's not damaging the property beyond the surface cosmetic damage that's already been done, and he's not harming himself. When he comes in to pay rent, he is dressed well and clean. There are no signs of mental illness, even when I spent 30 minutes with him during the last inspection. If he wants to sit on a pee-stained toilet, not dust off his shoes for 15 years, or prepare food on a counter that's filthier than an public restroom in Tijuana, he's free to make that decision. I don't like it, but I'm not responsible for ensuring he lives life according to my standards. The damage is done to the property so moving him out won't help either of us in any way.

I don't even know if he has kids but the previous Landlord told me he never has visitors. Maybe he was an abusive dad and deserves to live alone in squalor. Maybe he's always been a slob bachelor that just let things build up. It's really none of my business as long as it doesn't interfere with the neighbors or destroy the property.

[JD Martin]

Originally posted by @Ryan Steiner:

@Larkin Adey funny how 95% of responses dealt with numbers only. If I didnt live in the same city as my father and he were in that condition, I'd probably ask the landlord if they were aware. If they were, especially if this guy has a disability, I'd be pretty mad that they chose cash flow over concern for someone willing to live like this.

With that being said, if the guy can afford to smoke like a chimney, he can afford a pack a days worth of rent each month to begin replacing things there.

This is worse than FOB dahlke/shank. Except he has a toilet lol.

 If my father lived like that I think it would say more about me and my relationship with my father than it would about the action/inaction of the landlord. That's not a week or a month of dirt - that is years.