Advice for negative cashflow Airbnb

Advice for negative cashflow Airbnb

Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote

Ok, so I'm new to BP and I'm probably posting in the wrong place. I appreciate your patience. 

I live in Los Angeles and a couple of years ago I bought a tiny homestead cabin on 5 acres about 2 hours away in the hi-desert of California near Joshua Tree National Park. I did it for several reasons: 1) My fiance and I really enjoy the desert and the cost was low (or so it seemed at the time) 2) I expected I could Airbnb the place when not using it and, if not profit, at least break even 3) It was all I could afford (or at least I thought I could afford it at the time). The cabin itself turned out really cool and it rents for around $250 a night on weekends. I use a local management company that takes 30% off the top of the Airbnb income, because I can't really do it remotely. 

Anyway, the purchase price was about $40k and I ended up spending about $100k on top of that because it needed everything. I really went overboard (being new at this sorta thing) and probably overpaid for goods and services.  After everything was said and done, I was able to do a cash-out refi last year for about $95k with a conventional mortgage, and I consolidated the rest of my debt with a short-term personal loan. I now owe about what it appraised for ($145k) and my carrying costs are way higher than what it's bringing in after expenses. 

So...selling looks like my only option at this point, but I'm worried about capital gains. I'd rather keep it, but don't know how to structure the debt in such a way that it's even possible. Also, as if the above wasn't enough, there's an encroachment issue that makes it not as straightforward a sale as I would like (which is probably how I was able to get it in the first place, because the market is/was hot). The neighbor is aware of the issue but not too motivated to grant me an easement, which means I'll probably have to pay her through escrow if I can find a buyer willing to stomach the defect. 

So that's it in a nutshell. What would you do? I welcome any input/advice/abuse/consoling!

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Santa Ana, CA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 54 votes
7y

@Allen Vance, I have 2 properties in Joshua Tree and one in the Disney area that have all performed well (one of our properties has consistently been one of the top 5 in Joshua Tree on Airbnb). Full disclosure: I am starting my own Airbnb property management company out in Joshua Tree. Most property managers don’t really care to get you more business or keep up with maintenance and other essentials that are essential for long-term success in an area like Joshua Tree — I know because we tried a few property managers.

We think it’s not that difficult — although there is a lot of competition out in Joshua Tree, you can be and stay successful. You have to focus on 2 things at all times: ADR (Average Daily Rate) and Occupancy percentage (how often your property is booked). If you can increase those two things at the same time, you can dramatically increase your revenue.

E.g. Your property rents at $149/night on average at about 10 days/month occupancy (just 33%). Your gross will be about $1,490. If you can increase your average rate to $199/night and occupancy to 50% (15 days), then now your gross is $2985. You just more than doubled your gross income (over 100% increase) by just making two small performance improvements in your property.

The key is to research what is required for you to increase from say a $149/night property to a $199/night property. You can’t just increase your price for no reason, you have to justify it through the quality of the listing matching the price point.

In order to increase the ADR, you have to do two things:

(1) ensure your listing (description and photos) matches up to the price point that you want. You need your listing to stand out among the 100s of properties likely in your price point. To do that, it’s marketing 101: focus on what makes your property unique (your Unique Selling Proposition or USP). It may not even be exclusive to you, but your listing has to focus on that USP and sell the person browsing your listing on that USP through every description entry and your photos.

(2) ensure the experience of the person booking your place matches up to what they were told in the listing and matches the price point. You can’t have cheap Walmart towels and large bar soap in a property you rent for $299/night (although at $99/night it’s probably fine). You want the guest to be wowed by your property — it can be as simple as a couple of unique, stunning art pieces.

Just keep in mind people are not going to actually look at your property before booking (this is not a real estate listing where they will come and look at it in person before making a decision). So don’t take pictures like it was a real estate listing. They are booking your property based on two things: (1) the quality of the listing (description and especially, photos) and (2) your reviews (if you keep the guest experience matching the listing and price point, you will have good reviews).

To increase occupancy, there are many well known techniques: using hotel style price algorithms, offering point of sale extensions of stay, lowering the minimum daily stay during periods unlikely to otherwise book. Just remember that if your property is vacant- you make $0. Even if you lower your price to a predetermined minimum (don’t want to go too low or you increase the risk of attracting the wrong kind of guests) — if your property gets booked at the lowered price that is still that much more money you make vs the $0 you would’ve made if vacant.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y

    @Allen Vance, There are many people who remotely manage their VRBO / Airbnb properties and save the 30%. Would that allow you to break even or create positive cashflow?

    You would need a great and responsible cleaning person/s, a local handyman repair service ect.

    Your cleaning person would be your eyes and ears.

    You can manage payments communications, calendars etc through the VRBO / airbnb platform.

    A Lock box or smart door lock would eliminate the need for someone to handout a key during check in.

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @John Underwood, I've considered it, and I do have some local people, but the cleaning coordination is a real bear, especially given the remoteness of the location and frequent back-to-back turnover. It may come to that, however...

    Thanks!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    if your in it 40k purchase 100k rehab  your basis is 140k  so it looks like if you sold for 145k you have a tax loss other than recapture.

    the easement right of way issue is your main issue I would think.. did you not get title insurance that insured your access?  I would think you did as a lender would want a lender policy.. so whats the issue ?

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs yes, that sounds right from what I've read as far as the gains go. The encroachment relates to the cabin itself. It's on a little hill and a 2ft corner is built on the neighbor's land. Apparently there was a gentlemen's agreement back in '56, which may be enough for a prescriptive easement for the cabin itself, but I put a fence up (with her "blessing") a few feet behind which is problematic with nothing in writing. Regardless, it's not straightforward and would scare off many.

    Thanks!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Allen Vance:

    @Jay Hinrichs yes, that sounds right from what I've read as far as the gains go. The encroachment relates to the cabin itself. It's on a little hill and a 2ft corner is built on the neighbor's land. Apparently there was a gentlemen's agreement back in '56, which may be enough for a prescriptive easement for the cabin itself, but I put a fence up (with her "blessing") a few feet behind which is problematic with nothing in writing. Regardless, it's not straightforward and would scare off many.

    Thanks!

     yes you should do a formal lot line adjustment or easement. this will be an issue in most instances.

  • Santa Ana, CA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 54 votes
    7y

    @Allen Vance, I have 2 properties in Joshua Tree and one in the Disney area that have all performed well (one of our properties has consistently been one of the top 5 in Joshua Tree on Airbnb). Full disclosure: I am starting my own Airbnb property management company out in Joshua Tree. Most property managers don’t really care to get you more business or keep up with maintenance and other essentials that are essential for long-term success in an area like Joshua Tree — I know because we tried a few property managers.

    We think it’s not that difficult — although there is a lot of competition out in Joshua Tree, you can be and stay successful. You have to focus on 2 things at all times: ADR (Average Daily Rate) and Occupancy percentage (how often your property is booked). If you can increase those two things at the same time, you can dramatically increase your revenue.

    E.g. Your property rents at $149/night on average at about 10 days/month occupancy (just 33%). Your gross will be about $1,490. If you can increase your average rate to $199/night and occupancy to 50% (15 days), then now your gross is $2985. You just more than doubled your gross income (over 100% increase) by just making two small performance improvements in your property.

    The key is to research what is required for you to increase from say a $149/night property to a $199/night property. You can’t just increase your price for no reason, you have to justify it through the quality of the listing matching the price point.

    In order to increase the ADR, you have to do two things:

    (1) ensure your listing (description and photos) matches up to the price point that you want. You need your listing to stand out among the 100s of properties likely in your price point. To do that, it’s marketing 101: focus on what makes your property unique (your Unique Selling Proposition or USP). It may not even be exclusive to you, but your listing has to focus on that USP and sell the person browsing your listing on that USP through every description entry and your photos.

    (2) ensure the experience of the person booking your place matches up to what they were told in the listing and matches the price point. You can’t have cheap Walmart towels and large bar soap in a property you rent for $299/night (although at $99/night it’s probably fine). You want the guest to be wowed by your property — it can be as simple as a couple of unique, stunning art pieces.

    Just keep in mind people are not going to actually look at your property before booking (this is not a real estate listing where they will come and look at it in person before making a decision). So don’t take pictures like it was a real estate listing. They are booking your property based on two things: (1) the quality of the listing (description and especially, photos) and (2) your reviews (if you keep the guest experience matching the listing and price point, you will have good reviews).

    To increase occupancy, there are many well known techniques: using hotel style price algorithms, offering point of sale extensions of stay, lowering the minimum daily stay during periods unlikely to otherwise book. Just remember that if your property is vacant- you make $0. Even if you lower your price to a predetermined minimum (don’t want to go too low or you increase the risk of attracting the wrong kind of guests) — if your property gets booked at the lowered price that is still that much more money you make vs the $0 you would’ve made if vacant.

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @John Lee thanks for your reply. I feel relatively confident the PM is employing these methods. There are a couple of amenities I'm missing (namely a firepit and a BBQ), but I just can't afford to make the upgrades and I don't think they pencil out at this point.  

  • Santa Ana, CA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 54 votes
    7y

    @Allen Vance, you definitely want to have a firepit and BBQ out in Joshua Tree. One of the main reasons people come out there is for the outdoor desert experience.

    For one of our properties, we literally just dug a hole in the ground in the backyard (actually, the construction workers had dug it and used it as a firepit). We bought some decorative rock (slate or something) to line the sides of the pit and Voila! -- firepit! It cost maybe $25.

    For the BBQ, we just used a basic propane grill from the Home Depot (you can get a 5-burner for $149-$199 when they go on sale). All in all, these are pretty small upgrades as far as price goes, but big improvements on the guest experience.

    One thing I tell people is that for me personally, there are 2 things I never do unless I'm staying at an Airbnb -- use a hot tub and grill. But when you're with a group of friends at a getaway -- those are two things you always do. Of course, if you don't have a hot tub, that would be a big-ticket upgrade.

  • Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
    7y

    Post the airbnb listing?  Likely we can help significantly boost your revenues.

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Just to add some closure to this thread: I ended up selling the cabin for a decent little profit. It was the right move, and I'm excited to take this newly minted capital (I bought and rehabbed the place entirely with OPM) and put it to work somewhere else. Thanks to the BP members who added their input!

  • Real Estate Agent · Commerce CIty, CO · Member since 2018 · 127 posts · 78 votes
    7y

    I agree with the other writers, the company is taking too much from you at 30%. Is it growing any equity? Lock boxes, locals (or somewhat local) for cleaning, automate more, increase occupancy.

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