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Updated over 13 years ago, 08/11/2011
The darker side of landlording
Have any of you ever been threatened, robbed, physically attacked, or felt your life was threatened by either a tennant or a prospective tennant?
I've heard of "tennants" calling to look at a property they want to rent and meeting the landlord and robbing them when they get inside the house.
I'm curious to hear personal stories from the landlords here! I live in the south, a castle doctrine state, and have my concealed carry permit. I'm not violent in the least, but if this situation arose, I feel the criminal would have suffered from "poor victim selection" syndrome.
Any stories?
Are you planning to buy rentals in the ugliest war zones and show them strictly around midnight?
Not at all. I'm trying to stick with well to do areas. I've just heard horror stories and wondering if any of our fellow BPer's have experienced any of these.
No, but I've had a couple groups of applicants/lookers who made me uneasy. One time two guys and a girl came to look at one of the houses. They were polite, but the guys would stand too close to me while talking and I felt they were trying to intimidate me, and they both had extensive tattoos on the neck (gang? former gang?). Luckily they never returned the application and I never heard from them again.
Why not listen AND verify the success stories ? :)
I could see the potential of that happening. But I personally run my business where the potential of that happening are slim. The "darkest" moment would have been recently when I purchased a quad with non rent paying dealers, and a trick turner. I had to evict them, which was less than pleasant. I think if you act scared and they see it, they'll try to exploit it. I don't get rattled easy, and though I don't have a conceal / carry permit. I have a hatchet & hammer not too far away if needed for self defense. Of course, I stick by my Judo roots, and believe the best defense is to keep yourself out of trouble, and if it arises, spend your efforts getting yourself out quickly and safely.
Cheers,
Mark
- Mark Updegraff
- Podcast Guest on Show #112
#4 Off Topic Contributor
- Investor
- Round Rock, TX
That is why you hire property managers.
I've had a couple of runs that made me uncomfortable, one time I was sure I was going to be robbed, two guys came over and one moved to block the front door when we moved in so I immediately looked to the back door and shouted "what the f$%&"? I exited through the back door before they could figure out, I told them something was stolen from my back porch and I started to dial 911. I told them they can hang around, but they left immediately and never heard from them again.
There was another instance when I tried to evict someone and the boyfriend of the couple went berserk, acted in a threatening manner but I kept my cool (and distance). I told him to cool it right now because "I won't tolerate it" and eventually he calmed down, sometimes you worry if someone is on drugs or something and snap, it's a chance you take being in this business (or almost any other business).
few tricks I learned over the years and these could apply to many situations:
1. Always tell someone that you'll be at a property, ask them to call you every 10 minutes, and then say out loud..."OK, I'm here, come on over..."
2. Let the prospective tenant know that the neighbor/realtor/friend may be dropping by "some papers" or something and you may have to excuse yourself for few minutes.
3. Keep back and front doors unlocked, don't let your car be blocked, if it's evening or later, turn a bunch of lights on and make it look like something is going on. Arrive early and see if you can spot a neighbor to chit chat with, etc.
4. Trust your instincts, if it doesn't sound or look safe, just make an excuse and walk away. Phone are great for this, act you received an emergency "text" and just leave.
5. Numbers matter! Ask a partner, a friend, or a relative to accompany you. You can also announce that you have another tenant is coming to a showing.
Most importantly, you shouldn't be showing a place until you have received and verified some basic information from them. Ask them to drive by the property and if they're still interested, to give you a call, you can obtain some information then and verify it's accurate. I've had little chit-chats with people just to get a sense of what type of person I'm dealing with. When I ask where they're coming from or why they're moving, I use their answer to start a completely new line of conversation just to get them talking about themselves.
Those are very good suggestions.
For those cases where you can't get away, I recommend this:
http://selfdefenseknives.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/self-defense-knives4.jpg
I own a knife similar to this. Fits in your pocket. Note the sharp point and serated blade. Good for quick, multiple stabs to the trunk of the assailant's body.
So in the "run to the back door chased by assailant, but door locked" scenario, you turn, and make multiple underhanded stabs to the body. After he has caught up to you and is "in close". Real hard to block close-in underhanded stabs. It only takes a couple inches of penetration to cause serious damange to internal organs. They back off, you unlock the back door, and flee/call police.
Navy Seals use a knife similar to this.
I've got a ruger lcp that I can throw in my pocket during a uncomfortable encounter. It's tiny but will do the job if necessary.
Yikes, seeing stuff like this sort of makes me not want to be a landlord.
But have any of you guys who experienced some sort of discomfort between possible future tenants, have something up your sleeve like
if you suspect something bad is going to happen and you say something like "assualt me and I will sue you" do you think the person will stop trying to be intimidating?
Originally posted by Gilbert B.:
But have any of you guys who experienced some sort of discomfort between possible future tenants, have something up your sleeve like
if you suspect something bad is going to happen and you say something like "assualt me and I will sue you" do you think the person will stop trying to be intimidating?
I would think that someone who is going to rob you or assault you physically is not really concerned about being sued. If they are looking to rent your house, they probably don't have any assets to fear being lost.
The business end of a .45 in their face would probably be a better negotiation tactic to ward off an assault or robbery.
Originally posted by Gilbert B.:
No, they won't.
Seriously, despite this thread, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Screen vigorously on the phone/email before meeting someone, and don't buy in dangerous neighborhoods. A far more common problem you are likely to encounter is people who schedule and then never show up at the appointed time.
Thought I'd put my 2 cents in as I'm a property manager. Have had several instances of escalated tenant furor. Have been able to handle the situations so far (my previous experience as a mental health case manager comes into play often). I carry a stun gun, but have never had to use it. I've thought about purchasing a small gun, but afraid the situation could turn around and used on me. Leaning more towards a taser gun that has a 15' spread, at least it would give me time to escape.
I always have my phone on me and advise a close friend of the address of where I'm going, at what time and a check-in time. Always watch your back and follow your gut instinct.
Problem arises if you live an a state that is not gun friendly. Some state will not issue, or rarely issue, concealed carry permits. In some states you have to get creative to defend yourself.
Friend of mine in Hawaii has a carpet cleaning biz. One of the worst states for gun owners. Can't own a tazer, not even mace or pepper spray. So he carries a can of Easy-off oven cleaner under his seat. He's had people block him and approach his driver window. So he carrys the over cleaner (contains lye) and swears if it ever happens again they will get it in the face. Cops can't get him for carrying a concealed weapon. He will just tell them it was left by a move out cleaner at an apartment where he did the carpets.
He has another friend that has been living in Hawaii for 30 years. Runs into road rage all the time. He retired from the Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard and took some ammonium when he left. This is the chemical concentrate they make ammonia from. He carries some in an empty visine bottle. Stuff is powerful enough to stop your breathing and if sprayed in the face could knock you right off your feet (as you drive away to safety). Just a quick sniff is enough to gag you.
If you're dumb enuf to block someone on the road, get out of your car, approach the driver window and try to punch the driver through the window, you deserve a chemical facial. Burn the zits off your ugly face! Lye in they eye.
Too bad, usually just showing a hand gun is enuf to make a road rager approaching your car door back off and rethink things. In which case, no one would get hurt
Have a nice day!
I would assume if you were renting a home in a high class area then you would have slim chances of being assaulted or robbed. But then again, I could be wrong,.
Or just have a property manager do all the work and hassle though it might take a cut from the monthly cash flow of the property
I would also assume that if you were renting out a home in an area where the lower the crime rate is then lower chance you have of being assaulted or robbed. But then again, I could be wrong
Originally posted by Phillip Gainey:
If you're dumb enuf to block someone on the road, get out of your car, approach the driver window and try to punch the driver through the window, you deserve a chemical facial.
I've felt much more threatened on the road than with tenants, though I've been in some tight spots with both. Most of the jobs I've had have involved a lot of driving, and people call me an aggressive driver. I don't get aggressive or angry, but I drive fast, and that apparently angers people. The one guy that got out of his car and walked towards me didn't think it out too well, since he had to jump out of the way as I went forward anyway.
As for showings, I always followed the rule about telling people where I was going, and even in rough neighborhoods I never had much of a problem. I'm not sure why criminals would expect a landlord to carry large sums of cash, unless they act like they do.
I have been threatened a couple of times when tenants were facing eviction, once with an assault rifle. Generally they are just angry with their own situation, and you just stay calm, remove yourself from the situation, and re-approach at a later time. Sometimes it's better to deal with them over the phone and through the courts.
You can call and tell them you will evict them through all this through a phone?
I rather tell them I would evict them through a phone call then go to my property and hear and see their frustration where they might go berserk on me even if I did keep my distance
Your lease should say that all notices can be delivered either in person or certified mail.
Originally posted by Gilbert B.:
You can call and tell them. However, i think it would benefit both parties if you talked first so see what's going on. If they become unruly, just leave letting them know they owe you for the rent and then get the constables to deliver the notices.In some states/counties the laws says papers need to be served by them to "officially" start the eviction process anyway. you wont have to see the tenants again til they make payment or in court.
yikes....i have not had that kind of problem (hope to whoever's in charge to keep me safe), but there are some good ideas in this thread. i always go with wifey to show houses and so far no evictions yet.
Must confess, have been threatened, tires slashed and even physically attacked by people (tenants)I was evicting. (The physical attack ended as a pretty funny story actually.) I have learned how to avoid a repeat of the physical attacks. Mostly by standing my ground and acting calm at all situations (even when you feel you might of had a small bowel when you face one of these caracters.) Threats are actually a relief since 99% of the people who make physical threats are too cowards for any physical confrontation. I manage/own an 80 unit complex and found that nothing works like surveilance camaras with the monitor visible to anyone walking into the office. Of course this would be after you have properly screened the tenants and always enforce the rules. I have a "Qualifying Criteria" sheet that I show the prospective tenants before I show an apt. (Income qualification, background guidelines, rental and job history) I tell them that if they do no fall under that criteria it would be a waste of time to show them and a waste of money to apply. If they are a criminal, not enough income or bad rental history they just walk away.
I showed up to a tenants house whom I was having evicted. I showed up before the sherrif and moving company. I was going to make sure they were out so I wouldn't have to pay the moving company (dry run fee) The tenant seen the gun on my hip and went inside to put his guns on, he comes out with one on the small of his back and one on a armpit holster. His friend pulls up with another gun. The sherrif pulls up (3 cars) and takes all of their guns and makes them get out. It didn't scare or bother me. Just have to be ready and calm.