Tenant threating to Sue

General Landlording & Rental Properties
9yFollow

Tenant threating to Sue

Jerry Benson
Lender · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes

I'll try to keep this brief.  I have a rental property in Charlotte, NC and the gas fireplace hasn't worked for awhile.  While my property manager was in the process of getting an estimate, the tenant (without approval) hired his own contractor to fix the gas line at $360. I am responsible for paying $150 to fix a few other things to get it working. Now that the fireplace is working the tenant is threatening to take me to court for the $360 that he spent, which he was told many times not to do on his own.  I know NC isn't a very friendly state for landlords (in my experience) but I am not willing to reimburse him for something that he did without my approval.  In my eyes he is in breach of the lease agreement, but I am not an attorney.  Is it going to cost me more than $360 to defend myself therefore should I just bite the bullet and reimburse his $360? A precedent has been set with the tenant that when  he acts like a bully, makes threats he gets his way and I want to end this.  But I am not interested in it costing me thousands to defend myself and then perhaps lose anyway.  Any advice would be appreciated, especially if you are familiar with landlord/tenant laws in NC. 

0Reply
100 views

Most Popular Reply

Scott Patterson
Flipper/Rehabber · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 112 posts · 66 votes
9y

I don't understand why your property manager isn't handling this?  What is the point of a manager if they don't manage.  Tell both the tenant and pm to **** off.

15Reply
See this reply in the discussion

49 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Jeff B.
    Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    IMO (non lawyer comments follow), the issue is the chronology of Who said What to Whom.

    In your favor would be:

    1. they reported the failure
    2. you said no, BUT SCHEDULED the fix
    3. they proceeded anyway 
    4. now they want restitution.

    If your efforts to fix it just took too long for them and you have a No Tenant Repairs clause, you will be fine.

    If you just refused without taking any action, you ought to get out the checkbook and just move on.

    1Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    I would let him take me to court. You have a fairly good chance of winning along with having him pay your legal fees. Do not let tenant bully you into do what they want simply because they make threats. It will never end.

    Once it is over regardless of which way it goes do not renew his lease. 

    10Reply
  • Jeff Rabinowitz
    Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I am also not a lawyer and have no knowledge of North Carolina law. If this is worth it to you to defend against then let the tenant sue you. In Michigan this would probably be in small claims court (no attorneys)--I suspect N.C. has something similar. Most tenants will not follow through. They would have to pay the filing fee and be willing to show up in court. If they do follow through you will be notified and will have another chance to decide if it is worth defending against the suit. If you do not wish to show up in court you could just pay what the tenant asks at that time. If you do wish to show up in court, do so and present your case. If you have not been in your local small claims court yet it may be worth going just to see the process. The courts can be very useful for landlords also.

    In Michigan, a small claims court ruling may be appealed to District Court by either party. If the defendant appeals (that would be you) the magistrate's (magistrates are not judges) ruling they do not have to pay the filing fee. Again, another chance to learn how the system works on your tenant's dime even if you don't win.

    7Reply
  • Scott Patterson
    Flipper/Rehabber · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 112 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    I don't understand why your property manager isn't handling this?  What is the point of a manager if they don't manage.  Tell both the tenant and pm to **** off.

    15Reply
  • Jerry Benson
    OP
    Lender · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Thanks for all the replies. 

    Scott - My PM is keeping me informed as to what is going on so I don't get blindsided.  I have had bad PM's in the past and with this new one I wanted to be "in the know".  I do appreciate the sentiments.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2014 · 308 posts · 144 votes
    9y

    My initial question would be:  How do you know this contractor is on the up and up and did quality work and is licensed, bonded, and insured?

    If not, then I'd question everything.

    2Reply
  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    So...does not having a gas fireplace in Huntersville make the rental unit "uninhabitable"?   Is that the only source of heat?

     Sure he can file a claim against you but this would be in Small Claims court.  There would be absolutely no need for you to hire an attorney to go through this thing. Many tenants "threaten" to sue;  most threats are simply hot air.

    Gail

    5Reply
  • Jeff B.
    Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Gail K. has the correct perspective - - is it uninhabitable?

    0Reply
  • Amber Gonion
    Real Estate Broker · Hugo, MN · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 596 votes
    9y
    I would ask them for a copy of the invoice paid and check to make sure the contractor is licensed. If you had scheduled a repair ask that company to give a quote for repairing what was on he invoice. If the contractor was licensed the pay the homeowner what your contractor would have charged or the amount they are asking whichever is lower. If not licensed have your contractor check the work add subtract it from the quote your contractor gave you and pay the tenant that amount. Small claims court will want to make all parties whole, you should be held responsible for a high repair price, and you shouldn't get the repair for free. If the quote from your contractor is $200 the tenant won't bring you to court if you give him $200. Don't renew this tenant.
    7Reply
  • Jerry Benson
    OP
    Lender · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    The contractor is from hearth and patio apparently. The house is habitable and in good to excellent condition. 

    I will keep you all posted, thanks for all the input.   

    0Reply
  • Scott Patterson
    Flipper/Rehabber · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 112 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    if you own the property in your name, then you can defend yourself in small claims, if it is in a company name then you will have to hire an attorney fyi to help determine your risk factors.  I would tend to think that the tenant won't sue and will likely withhold rent, in which case you go for eviction and settle it there.

    2Reply
  • Jerry Benson
    OP
    Lender · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Scott, the house is in my name, not a corporation and I fully expect the tenant to take this as far as he can. He is just that type of person.  

    Thanks everyone for all the input

    0Reply
  • Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Jerry Benson Did you rent the property with a "working fireplace", or did you say it did not work, and therefore you would not be doing any repairs? IF you said "fireplace" in your listing of the rental, go ahead and pay the tenant, but put in writing to the tenant  that any further repairs will and must be done at the direction of the PM

    [email protected]407-448-6679Podcast Guest on Show The Key to Scoring Discounted Deals in One of America’s Hottest Markets
    Compass | St. Pete514 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    3Reply
  • Dale Walker
    Investor · Rigby, ID · Member since 2016 · 52 posts · 45 votes
    9y

    I don't know NC law. In Idaho, a tenant must go to court and have a judge decide if a repair must be done if the tenant and LL disagree. Tenants can only withhold rent for repairs in 1 circumstance and that is buying fire alarms. 

    If this was my tenant, (If on a month to month) I would pay the 200$ and them give them 30 days notice to vacate.  (If on a Lease), I would let them take me to court.  Maybe letting them pay the filing fee will teach them something. I would save all my communication with the tenant and not get a lawyer for a small claims issue. The judge can explain to them or to me what NC judges expect from everyone. Also, I would add a clause to the lease that no repairs paid by the tenant will be reimbursed.

    1Reply
  • Kimberly H.
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    9y

    It's not mold, it's a fireplace, unless it's the only source of heat he is going to look pretty ridiculous in front of a judge. I would give him what it would have costed you to fix and have him sign off saying that he agrees to that amount. 

    1Reply
  • Ntiense Inokon
    Real Estate Investor · Silver Spring, MD · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 8 votes
    9y
    Hi Jerry! The most important question is what documentation do you have? I'm not an attorney; however, wether you take this to small claims court or hire an attorney, you will need documentation of what was discussed and agreed upon with the tenant. I assume you have documentation that your PM was obtaining repair quotes. If you don't have written proof that the tenant was instructed not to hire a contractor and/or if your lease agreement doesn't identify responsibility for unauthorized repairs, you may want to reimburse the tenant. Either way, address the topic of unauthorized repairs made by the tenant, in writing, for the remainder of the lease.
    1Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    See if he files. Then decide whether or not to pay.
    0Reply
  • Billy Smith
    Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 716 posts · 313 votes
    9y

    Back ground check time, like what was said have contractor provide docs on job. If they are not licensed, you may open up a can of worms later, improper install causing issue that could be very nasty outcome, time for PM to help you.

    Then after that think about paying bill.

    0Reply
  • Ryan Dossey
    Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    So with us, the minute a seller, tenant, or prospect threatens any sort of legal action we cease all communication and they may speak with our attorney that's it. A lot of folks will threaten to sue or take you to court. The minute they get passed over to an attorney they can often sing a different tune.. 

    5Reply
  • Tyler WattsPro Member
    Buy & Hold Investor · Shelby, NC · Member since 2015 · 136 posts · 68 votes
    9y

    document, document, document. 

    Sounds like you have  bully tenant which I would not renew the lease. But you can look at this as opportunity as well. Did the problem get fixed correctly by the contractor your tenant hired? If so, I'd consider paying just to make the headache go away assuming that is a fair price for the fix. Again, you have to remember your most valuable asset is your time, do you really won't to spend your time and energy over $360? I understand your trying to make a point and when you mix pride in it's hard but refer back to your most valuable asset, time. One hour with an attorney can chew most of that up. If your documentation is not 100%, I'd check the contractor and repair and if ok I'd pay but would document the situation and have the tenant sign saying ANY repairs moving forward must get WRITTEN approval from the PM or they will NOT be paid. Be firm and professional. This is your property, not there's and it has to be demonstrated.  Moving forward, this is something to learn from on future tenants and how important relationships are with them. There are some that just want to be a pain, but for the most part, if your a solid landlord, tenants will follow the rules but they have to know if they don't, there is consequences.  I purchase Boston butts every xmas and give to all my tenants just to wish them Merry Christmas and let me know I'm thinking of them. That $50 goes a long way, especially when a problem arises! Good luck. 

    4Reply
  • Linda S.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    My question for you-- is it a good tenant? Have they paid on time and do they take care of your property?   If it's their primary heating source, then in my non-legal opinion, you'd be at fault because you have to provide heat source.   If it's a secondary heat source, they would be responsible for the $360 because you didn't authorize or agree to pay. 

    While it would feel good to shove it to them, evict them and give them the mental middle finger for causing you additional stress, and costing you an additional $360... it feels a heck of a lot better IMO to have a good tenant and keep a long relationship, and consistent rent.    It will cost you significantly more than $360 in lost rent if you evict or don't renew their lease, let alone talking about evictions with attorney fees $$$$$$, than to just eat the $360 as a capital improvement (sounds like it needed to be done), and then have them sign an additional agreement stating they know they can't hire anyone, and if they do, they're responsible.    You were going to pay the $$ to get it fixed anyway...   Firm but fair is my opinion. 

    2Reply
  • Kirk Hanson
    Investor/Licensed Real Estate Broker · Concord, NC · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 19 votes
    9y

    Rental property is scarce in Huntersville and renters are abundant.  Stand your ground.  Don't get bullied because he will keep taking as long as you are willing to give.  IF he takes you or your PM to court, you must provide a copy of the lease and the magistrate will rule according to the written lease.  As long as the house has a heat source, fireplaces are not required to be operable.

    2Reply
  • Roger P.
    Investor · Arvada, CO · Member since 2014 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    You posted that "the fireplace hasn't been working for a while"- was it not a priority for you and PM to fix? How long ago or how many times had tenant requested repair?  You posted that "the tenant fixed the gas line"- was it leaking gas and possibly a safety risk? Is the fireplace needed to keep the unit comfortable?

    From a different perspective- Would you rather be right or rich? What is the monthly rent for this unit? Is the $200 worth the cost of eviction/turnover costs? How long have you had this tenant? Is this an opportunity to train the tenant and PM on your expectations?

    3Reply
  • Linda S.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Roger P., love the quote "would you rather be right or rich?"  

    2Reply
  • Jerry Benson
    OP
    Lender · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    The tenant has been in the house for 2 months and hasn't stopped complaining since he moved in.  I've bent over backwards to keep him happy and have done everything he has asked even if I wasn't obligated to do so.  The house is a great house, the fireplace is a luxury item that provides no heat whatsoever, the HVAC is the main source of heat and air. I even made an exception to allow him to rent my house because he had a little dog and I don't allow pets.  But, I felt bad for him because he had no other options.  I've built more good will with this tenant than any tenant before and it is never enough.  I'm a good guy, follow the law and do the right thing for my tenants.  He treats my PM like garbage and makes threats any time he can.  I've offered to split the difference, etc. he will only accept full reimbursement. 

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free