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Updated over 1 year ago, 07/08/2023
Should a landlord clean a filthy tenant's kitchen and bath
Hi everyone,
I've got a weird question today. My husband has been working on our ancient 4plex including what started as a small handful of repairs at one of the units where a tenant's been living for about 18 years (he's not leaving yet either). The guy went thru some health issues and depression, consequently the place is a wreck. My husband hauled out three truck loads of garbage for the dump, paid for it and loaded and unloaded it too. Now he's replacing most of the tenant's appliances with newer used. AND he wants me (The Wife) to head out there and CLEAN THIS GUY'S KITCHEN AND BATHROOM. I've already cleaned the used appliances (range and fridge and range fan and microwave) AND cleaned all the cabinet doors brought home for that specific purpose. They were filthy, mega. Believe me, I don't mind helping out, it's my property, too. BUT, this seems over the top. The guy's not leaving so why should we clean his 18 years worth of filth, and why shouldn't he do it? FYI - I've asked the hubs and I got rage + wrath + fury at my daring to ask such a dumb question.
This is a very interesting discussion. I've been a landlord for 40 years, have 15 properties, and am doing quite well with it.
I'm in favor of providing a cleaning from time to time, and have done so, for a filthy tenant. If the tenant is otherwise ok, it might be a way to gain some goodwill, and certainly maintain the property a little better.
Yes, you are 100% right, it's his mess, you're not his Mom, and all the other obvious answers that were provided. But for one tenant whose bathroom I'm about to have cleaned, he's a good guy, pays on time, and I'd rather pay a couple bucks (ok, more than a couple) to have his bathroom cleaned, which he'll appreciate, and it will give him one more reason to be able to rationalize staying in my rental when the next rent increase comes.
As far as asking the wife to perform this task, this is something I'm not qualified to give any advice on, so you're on your own with that one.
I guess if we knew how many properties each person owned, how much equity they had, and how much net cash flow they had from their properties, we could rank the answers by that criteria.
Joffrey Long
Grumpy Old Landlord
Originally posted by @Roy N.:
We have a clause in our lease requiring the tenant to maintain good housekeeping. If they fail to keep the place {relatively} clean, we reserve the right to send-in a cleaning service at the tenants expense.
My lease has a really basic cleanliness clause but it could be improved to be more detailed and less subjective. The Housing Authorities in both my city and county have a very detailed cleanliness lease clause for their units. It defines kitchen cleanliness, among other things, as floors and walls and cabinets free from grime and flood spatter. It defines bathroom cleanliness as surfaces free from grime and mold. The clause is specific so they have rights to remediate at the tenant's expense. The right to remediate is important when you have tenants with challenges (physical, mental or emotional) that interfere with their ability to maintain a clean unit
I would only clean it after they are evicted, then subtract any allowed charges from the deposit.
NO! My tenants just moved out and the house smelled like a skunk. The water was off and I did not even want to go inside. I searched until I found a reasonable maid company. I paid $45.00 to clean the whole house. I will clean my mess but won't clean after the Tenants. NO WAY! And I agree with James wise respond. He said what I wanted to say.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Mary B.:
wow no offense but this is
Kudos,
Mary
No kidding. The tenant situation is familiar to me and understandable. The marriage that involves yelling and irrational rage over the tenant.....WTF indeed.
EXACTLY. The husband's behavior is highly troubling in that he can bend over backwards for a tenant who has hoarder tendencies and is otherwise a stranger but goes ballistic when his wife doesn't want to clean the tenants bathroom(which has to be a bio-hazard and one shouldn't dare enter without wearing the full CDC apparel ) and kitchen. I feel for the OP. This is a screaming need for marriage counseling, imo.
Kudos,
Mary
I would hire someone else to do the cleaning.
Why are so many replies entertaining the idea that this question is even somehow related to real estate?
@MARY CLEMENT-HILL do you feel safe right now? Consider taking staying with a friend/family for a bit. At the very least please seek some counseling from a pro or close friend.
Sorry if this seems bold, but from previous experience I need to err on the side of caution.
If I'm completely off base there, sorry.
Personally, you need to hire a maid service to clean the unit and bill the tenant for the services. If the hubby objects, maybe, a counseling session is in order with a "marriage counselor.
Unlike most other responses, I think in this specific instance, the landlord should ensure the unit is cleaned. If for no other reason, because it is a 4-plex, and if this tenant keeps his place so filthy it attracts roaches and rodents, the tenants in the other units will be affected too. A landlord owes it to all his tenants to do what he can to provide a sanitary living environment. So, ensuring it is cleaned well one time, then contracting with a maid service on the tenant's dime for the regular servicing sounds like a great fix.
Of course, that does not mean the landlord should personally clean the dirty apartment. However, if the landlord does not have the money to pay for a professional cleaning service to attend to a terribly filthy home, and the tenant cannot afford it, and the landlord doesn't want to lose an 18-year tenant who probably never complains about anything, I could see, maybe, maybe the landlord taking on the job himself. But I can't imagine asking my wife to help clean a tenant's filthy apartment. Talk about inducing a rage tornado.
NO! My tenants just moved out and the house smelled like a skunk. The water was off and I did not even want to go inside. I searched until I found a reasonable maid company. I paid $45.00 to clean the whole house.
Becky Ben can you really get some one to clean "the whole house" in your state for $45.00? I can't even get someone to clean 2 hours here in New York for $45.00. I knew I was living in the wrong state.
I think the problem has been resolved about the dirty apartment. The tenant has hired a cleaning person, at the insistance and reccomendation of the Landlord and from now on the apartment is going to be in an acceptable condition. The wife can now resign from her cleaning job and turn the entire problem over to the cleaning service. The next time an apartment has to be cleaned she will just call in that same service and someone will just pay for it.
This couple can stay happily married or they can stay unhappily married.
Sounds like husband is trying to help. And should get cleaning cost/addendium signed. Based on the volume of garbage he's a hoarder and as other alluded he'll need professional help (not lazy, it's a form of OCD w/things). Is this regular lease or some sort of Sec#8 where you could have agencies involved, if tenant unable to meet guidelines due to phych needs for example?
The guy could want help from others..but may be past that stage. Laws vary by state but even relatives can't help (refer to help) unless old enough for APS or person's Doctor refers for services. If you have relatives info, might anonymously report to get help.
Well, I'm back from the first cleaning and I have to say...I never in a million years expected so much advice. The insight, the knowledge, the thoughtful discussion...really, I'm touched and kinda floored! ;-)
Okay, the tenant is 'a nice guy' but he obviously has issues. I'd call him a hoarder. Not quite as bad as those you see on the show Hoarders...but close. BUT, here's the cool part, he actually is allowing us to get rid of much of it! All the garbage, obviously. But also many other items, too. I overheard a discussion between the two about a chair. Tenant thinks it's a really nice chair and wants to fix it up. My husband calmly talked him through why it isn't the best idea because of this, that and that other thing. I don't know the outcome, but he seems amendable to overall change, including getting rid of the chair, maybe.
I am actually beginning to think that, with the leg up we're offering, this guy *may* pull his weight as a tenant a bit more. Plus, I do believe he's actually corralled a maid service to start once we're through renovating his whole two-level unit.
Just a note about this place, my husband made the mistake (not the worst mistake, but still...) of buying a 70 +/- year old STUCCO 4plex here in Oregon. There is NO END to the work. Though he didn't have to do much for about 2 years of the 15 we've owned it. But I'd love to have the 14,000 hours back he's spent replacing all the main drain lines, replacing the giant fence (posts also need to be replaced almost yearly due to high water table), laying all new concrete driveways and sidewalks, the 8+ remodels across the various units, the new roof and gutters, the windows he's replaced, the grinding/caulking/sanding/priming/texturing/painting of the billion and a half cracks in the plaster interior walls due to the poor underlying structure, the loads of landscaping installed specifically for a needy tenant who moved out after a few months (Cypress trees? Really? So why do they keep dying and falling over dear?).....but the WORST so far is the exterior paint job. I can't even talk about that, gets me too upset. Oh, let's not forget all the garage headers that are giant cement 'beams' and are all cracking....hope the Big One doesn't hit as has been predicted.
I'm going to promote selling the place, even though it's totally rentable and makes decent money. It's just taking way way way too much time and effort to keep it up. Well, until then, there's still a TON of work to do over there with more everyday. At least this particular tenant's kitchen is clean-ish. Had to clean around full drawers and stuff stacked all over the place. I wish I could show my husband this thread....oh man, I so want him to read these. But I really can't take even more rage and nasty crap. It would only make things a lot worse than they already are...but I totally appreciate EVERY SINGLE MESSAGE. Wow, thank you all so so much!!!!! I learned a lot, even if I can't actually act on some of the excellent advice. WTF indeed. :-)
Originally posted by @Ellie Hanson:
I'm concerned. Do you feel safe in your marriage? Do you have a support system that you can talk to? Rage tornados aren't normal and aren't acceptable.
I had the same thought when reading this thread. Domestic abuse is real, and many times the victims try to sympathize with their abusers, or tell other people that "it's not so bad" because that's all their used to. There are always ways to get out and start over. It's not an easy process but there are people out there that can help, people that want to help.
Keep the tenant or not, I'd lose the husband!
@MARY CLEMENT-HILL, often rage is a form of control. It causes you to do what is asked or being told to do or rage comes. If rage stops working the next step is usually violence. If your husband is going into a rage sober, things could be worse when he comes home from the bar from drinking. Alcohol is a disinhibitor. It could allow things to progress in a negative way that might not occur while sober.
It also sounds like you and he have very different views on the rental you own, perhaps that is a part of the rage that needs to be resolved. You are either in or out. Being negative about it if he truly spends huge amounts of time working on it will build resentment. My wife is not supportive of my investing but after the initial disagreement when I buy a new property she is usually live and let live. When she cares enough to give her opinion on things that are not just negative I listen as she is both intelligent and educated.
As to the question of why non real estate advice is being given. It is because people care about other people, and want to help them. That is why this site is so great. People take time to help others. Without that attitude this site would have nothing of value. It is just that most of the folks here are really into real estate so that is the reason for coming to the site, but it is still for help.
@MARY CLEMENT-HILL I read every post. You spoke glowingly of how your husband dealt with the tenant with issues and also mentioned the rage he unleashed on you. I just have to say that is totally backwards (actually it's totally F'd up!!!).
Based on what you have said is your husband purchased a job that pays him about $5 per hour and you have to work on doing nasty jobs from time to time, for free, when he makes a mistake.
This is what my wife would say if I came to her saying the property was not making enough money to pay to have the cleaning done. "The cleaning supplies are over there in the corner, we'll be having supper at 6, don't be late." If I flew into a rage that you described at this suggestion she would leave me (file for divorce) and take half of the real estate. I might be able to beg her to come back one time but if it happened again she would be gone for good.
Real love does not tolerate abuse. You have to love yourself first and if you can't do that to the point that you don't tolerate nasty behavior you will only get more nasty behavior. As @Jerry W. and others have suggested, failure to love yourself may cost you your life.
You shouldn't do this, why don't you give your husband an advice to hire cleaning service company and add the expenses in the rent. In kitchen or bathroom may be pests are residing and who knows how much more things out there.
When your husband asks you to help clean this man's apartment, pull out the phone book and find a cleaning service. Call them, have them come out, and give you an estimate. Give the estimate to your husband, and *tell* your husband to get the tenant's signature on the estimate, stating he agrees to pay for the cleaning service.
Whenever someone asks me to do something that is outside the scope of reason, I treat it like a business - I act as the supervisor, delegate it out, and add 10% to the charges. Most people learn after only one lesson.
If your husband asks why you're calling a cleaning service, explain to him that you want to be fair to the tenant - by getting him the best price possible... since you would charge 10% more than even the cheapest cleaning service... so it's in the tenant's best interest to agree to pay the cleaning service directly.
One more small tip - I try, as much as possible, to never say "no" to an unreasonable request. I say "yes" and make the terms so untenable that the other person says "no thanks." I am always, as much as possible, the "yes" man - but I control the terms.
Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:
Originally posted by @Ellie Hanson:
I'm concerned. Do you feel safe in your marriage? Do you have a support system that you can talk to? Rage tornados aren't normal and aren't acceptable.
I had the same thought when reading this thread. Domestic abuse is real, and many times the victims try to sympathize with their abusers, or tell other people that "it's not so bad" because that's all their used to. There are always ways to get out and start over. It's not an easy process but there are people out there that can help, people that want to help.
+1 on the concern for the OP.
Mary - this is the unhealthiest thing I've read in a very long time. Take some advice from here and take a long look at your marriage and consider whether a rage tornado is really appropriate from a man who is supposed to be in love with you. This is a 911 call waiting to happen. Please don't let it be you.
i would suggest marriage counselling and better property management decisions
In the end the apartment belongs to the Landlord and his wife.
They have to be concerned about getting their investment clean.
The tenant has said they will pay for a cleaning person on an on going basis. Have the cleaning person start right now and finish cleaning up the mess. Congradulate the tenant for hiring the cleaning person. Send him an adendum to his lease out lining what is expected in the future. Tell him want they expect in the in way of cleaning. I am sure the tenant feels better in a clean apartment, and the landlord and his wife feel better now that the apartment is clean .
Monitor this apartment on an on going basis. Show up to "Change " the batteries in the smoke alarm and look at the kitchen and bath and do not let dirt to pile up. If the apartment starts getting dirty stop it in it's track by getting the cleaning person there the following day. The tenant has to be told that it's either a clening person or his having to move,
Any time it looks dirty have the cleaning person show up and mop up. Constant vigilance wil be needed to keep this place clean.