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Updated almost 7 years ago, 01/30/2018
Pit bulls as service dogs.....
Just got a call in Indiana from a lady whose kid has a pit as a "service" dog.
Thoughts on this? Can I still discriminate against the breed as I normally do with pits, rotts and so on even if they have papers?
@Kelly M. When you say service dogs must be certified and verified, maybe they do in your state, but be careful as not only is that not applicable in many states, but a landlord can get in trouble for even asking for certification. It's my understanding that the national rule is that if the disability is not evident, a landlord can ask for a letter from a doctor stating the patient has a disability and that a service dog helps the patient with that disability. It's also my understanding that it's even more confusing for emotional support animals, as it can be weird animals like snakes or birds, but a landlord can still require a letter from the doctor. You can't specifically ask what the condition is, but I believe for a service dog, you can ask what task they perform. Also, in many states, no professional training or certification is required (I think to eliminate the cost burden on the handicapped person, self-training, but I don't really know). I actually require a good citizen certificate on any dog (pet) I allow in my rentals, but I couldn't even ask for that requirement if they say it's a service dog. And I do believe that if your insurance won't cover the pit bull or significantly increase your insurance costs, you can fight it, but I know in Maryland the police took a woman's pit bull service dog away as the county had a ban on pit bulls, and she successfully won her court case and had it returned to her.
I understand- all laws are different. It's very unfortunate. There is a service dog registry however. It's a national registry. And I do believe you can search the tenant and the dog to make sure it is registered. They are going to start lifting most pit bans because a pit bull is not a recognized breed in any of the k9 organization. A pit bull or an American pit bull terrier is a complex cross of a few breeds. And now that DNA testing in dogs has become so available. The proof that a dog is not a pit bull is very easily available. If I showed you 10 pics of 10 different dogs. 100 percent positive you wouldn't pick the true American pit bull terrier.the media has hyped the country on this breed. Anyhow. I'm going to get the link for the registry and post. So you all have it
Our first buy, twin duplexes had a Pit Bull as a resident
We did not want any dogs much less Pit Bulls and were concerned about our insurance and the dog itself. Even concerned about the man because he was single and had a lot of friends and a first I didn't even know who was the listed tenant. We wanted to terminate the lease but finnally decided it was too difficult
Well its been over 1 1/2 half years now. The tenant is no problem and the dog is very nice and friendly, both to other visiting dogs and to children.
Originally posted by @Kelly M.:
The main issue here is that as a landlord, at least in my states, I cannot ask for certification or require proof of certification to rent to them. I'm not a lawyer, no legal advice, but people who are already confused about this issue shouldn't be thinking they can require registration or, especially, could deny based on not having registration. Maybe there are states that allow it or have their own state registration, but definitely not in mine.
You do realize that this registry is a private, voluntary registration, then if you actually start the process, it says frequently right on their website that Certification is Not Required in the U.S.
the laws are horrible on service dogs it's so wrong.
Originally posted by @Barbara G.:
Our first buy, twin duplexes had a Pit Bull as a resident
We did not want any dogs much less Pit Bulls and were concerned about our insurance and the dog itself. Even concerned about the man because he was single and had a lot of friends and a first I didn't even know who was the listed tenant. We wanted to terminate the lease but finnally decided it was too difficult
Well its been over 1 1/2 half years now. The tenant is no problem and the dog is very nice and friendly, both to other visiting dogs and to children.
Barbara most pits are extremely human social and amazing with children. The media kills them. With insurance, people staring they own a pit and 98 percent of the time it isn't a pit. It's a pit bull type. That's why I always recommend DNA cert. so people don't have issues
if you saw this dog. Would u think pit bull?
He is a whippet, beagle and American bull dog mix. Mostly whippet. Just making a point.
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@Kelly M. Hey, someone who knows a thing or two about Pit Bull type dogs (and dogs in general)! I like it. :-)
Do you recommend a specific DNA company? I did one of those swab tests on my dog and it came back that she's basically a mutt: American Staffordshire Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier (the Target dog!), and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
I agree on the CGC (canine good citizen test by the AKC) cert...especially the advanced CGC. My dog is titled CGCA.
The CGC test shows that the owner takes the time to properly train their dog. The test itself is not impressive because any dog should know basic manners and commands. I feel it more shows that you are a good, responsible owner.
You are right @Kelly and @Niccole most Pit Bulls are mixes anyway. My partner was very upset about this dog when we first bought the place but I told him that there was no way to actually even know about his being a pit bull. As far as the insurance company was concerned he could just be a terrier. As far as this dog he has just been a perfectly lovable type dog.
Originally posted by @Nicole A.:
@Kelly M. Hey, someone who knows a thing or two about Pit Bull type dogs (and dogs in general)! I like it. :-)
Do you recommend a specific DNA company? I did one of those swab tests on my dog and it came back that she's basically a mutt: American Staffordshire Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier (the Target dog!), and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
I agree on the CGC (canine good citizen test by the AKC) cert...especially the advanced CGC. My dog is titled CGCA.
The CGC test shows that the owner takes the time to properly train their dog. The test itself is not impressive because any dog should know basic manners and commands. I feel it more shows that you are a good, responsible owner.
The best one is in my opinion the wisdom panel.. With your test. I'd say you prob have a true American pit terrier. But they are not a recognized breed. So how does anyone legally discriminate against ?? This is why laws are changing. I've been bitten by jack Russell terriers, dashunds and believe it or not cocker spaniels. Chows ! I've trained prob thousands of dogs and have evaluated thousands. I've never been bitten by a rottie a sheppard or a pit bull type. It amazes me how people say uhh no pit bulls allowed!! Educate yourself on breed and specifics the horror stories you see. Think about where they are occurring and who is owning the dogs
I will tell you this- if I had rentals. I'd take an American staffy or a bulldog or pit bull type dog over many other breeds. The chances of a pit bull type attacking you are just as likely as you getting hit in the head with a falling coconut off a tree walking down the street. I'd never allow a chow.. A shar pei and a few others. Because I know they are human biters. You just don't hear about them in news.
@Barbara G. correct. Pits are terriers. Terrier mix.
I'd just ask to meet the dog before renting. If they say no then red flag would go off
I have met and enjoyed some great encounters with Pit Bulls and other breeds labeled "viscous" as well
The problem for landlords is the many insurance policies deny coverage for these breeds. I do not and will not want be personally liable for a tenants dogs actions
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The argument (and a strong one, I admit) is that small dogs bites can't seriously harm or kill you typically. Logic says that size does not make it okay or funny for a small dog to be aggressive. If my Pit Bull acted the same way that many Chihuahuas act, she would quite possibly be put down. But we laugh at the Chihuahua for the same behavior.
However, I have also met some wonderful small dogs who are not nippy or even yippy! And there is a guy a few doors down from my rental that has 2 Pit Bull-looking dogs. He just lets them in the backyard that has NO fence. Sometimes I have to walk by and I don't like how the dogs silently stare me down. One of them did bite my handyman and he had to get stitches in his arm.
Dogs are like people. Some are friendly. Some are jerks. Some are mentally unstable and unsafe. Many can go from bad to good with training. A few are too far gone.
It doesn't sound very believable to me. I'd put in the lease agreement, no dogs over 20 pounds, no exceptions. That's only going to cost you money when they destroy the carpet, scratch the floors, and walls.
- Vincent Crane
Originally posted by @Nicole A.:
The argument (and a strong one, I admit) is that small dogs bites can't seriously harm or kill you typically. Logic says that size does not make it okay or funny for a small dog to be aggressive. If my Pit Bull acted the same way that many Chihuahuas act, she would quite possibly be put down. But we laugh at the Chihuahua for the same behavior.
However, I have also met some wonderful small dogs who are not nippy or even yippy! And there is a guy a few doors down from my rental that has 2 Pit Bull-looking dogs. He just lets them in the backyard that has NO fence. Sometimes I have to walk by and I don't like how the dogs silently stare me down. One of them did bite my handyman and he had to get stitches in his arm.
Dogs are like people. Some are friendly. Some are jerks. Some are mentally unstable and unsafe. Many can go from bad to good with training. A few are too far gone.
Aren't there leash laws? Fence laws? That's dangerous. I would complain to animal control. When I am training I have some pits that don't do well with other animals. However are very well managed on leash but when walking and another is off leash and charges a dog I'm working with that is a problem. However it would not be consider the pits fault because there are leash laws and that would be considered a provoked bite. Irresponsible owners ruin it for others.
I myself own mastiffs who have the strongest bite per square then any other breed. If the so much as thought about showing a tooth at anyone unless to protect me from a real threat. They would be put down. There is no room for human aggression in this world. The humans create enough of it
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@Kelly M. Apparently the police were called after the bite incident and the police didn't really do anything. I have considered trying to call and complain to someone (who?) if I see the dogs out there again while unleashed and unsupervised. I have a feeling animal control wouldn't do anything either...
@brandon hicks
Here's what you do. We had someone with a large breed "service" dog apply. Our standard is less than 50 lbs. It is apparently pretty easy to get the paperwork people above are suggesting. The gentleman who applied presented it to us and we said that it was not adequate, we need to have the Dr.'s name who "prescribed" the service animal. He brought in another paper showing it was a service dog. It didn't trace to any Dr. so once again we told him we need the contact information of the Dr. who said he needed a service dog or he could not move in. This was our policy for everyone who has a service dog. He withdrew a couple days later and claimed he found somewhere else to live.
To some people service dogs are a huge help, it is to bad that people are taking advantage of the laws that have been put into place to allow these folks to have their service dogs.
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Almost all dog training is about training the owner, not the dog :) I will readily admit that I knew nothing about training my dog, years ago, until I took him through an obedience training course, and then realized it was I that was confusing the dog. I didn't understand the psyche of a dog, so all I did was give off confusing and mixed signals.
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- Podcast Guest on Show #243
Originally posted by @David Epstein:
Service dogs need to be registered, and the tenant needs to have attended classes with the dog. There will be documentation if it's all true. Ask to see it.
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This isn't accurate. Emotional support animals do not have to be trained. Service dogs, that assist the blind for example, go through training with the owner in order to perform certain tasks. On the other hand ESAs can support any disability as long as the doctor recommends it and can be any animal (turkey, fish, bird, lizard etc). ESAs and classification and accommodation of emotional disability per HUD and ADA is a whole new territory in land lording. You might want to get updated and informed.
Another thing you could do/say is look at your insurance coverage and see if this breed is excluded, which i think it would be. If that is the case you could be held liable if the dog attacked or killed someone on your premises.
You need to tell them that their renters insurance must cover pit-bulls. This is a reasonable accommodation under the ADA it is nondiscriminatory.
This law is absolutely asinine. It is very poorly written and vague.
I work as a bus driver for my W2 and have been trained that, if someone brings an animal OF ANY KIND onto your bus and, when told "no pets allowed", claims that it is a service animal, it is against the law to refuse them access AND it is against the law to ask what their disability is to determine the animals necessity. They can literally take a dog, cat, pony, or chicken on a bus and will win a lawsuit if the driver gives any guff.
Their magic words are "service animal". If they say that, we reply "yes ma'am, yes sir, enjoy the ride".
I hope the law does not pertain to me as a landlord as it does as a bus driver. I am going to find out though. Apparently, according to K. Marie P., I think I'm in for a disappointment.