Rehabbing a meth house

Rehabbing a meth house

Real Estate Investor · Loveland, CO · Member since 2012 · 23 posts · 0 votes

Hello all,

I'm very new to real estate investing and I'm so grateful for this website. I have my first duplex rental under contract right now, but I can't stop doing research on other possible deals. I did find a house that I've done comparables on that I think is valued at about $210,000. It's going up for auction starting at $50,000. The problem is that it's a meth house. I've read a few different posts on this forum and people say to stay away from it because of the huge cleanup costs. I've read a report on the tests that have been done to this house and it's really toxic. So I was thinking that I would have to gut it if I bought it. Does anyone have any idea on the extent of the cleanup/rebuilding costs? I know that's a hard question to answer. The house is 1600 square feet, 2bd, 2ba, and an 800 square foot basement. I'm guessing to strip the house down by specialized people would cost about $30,000 and to rehang sheetrock, texture, and paint, would be another $20,000. I can rebuild the kitchen and bathrooms, but that shouldn't be more than about $20,000 if I take it easy. Flooring and other stuff, $10,000. I'm completely guessing, but I think with all those costs, I can still come out with about $50,000 in my pocket (and a few more grey hairs more than likely). Does all of this sound ok or should I run in the other direction screaming?

Thanks for reading!!

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Investor · West Bloomfield, MI · Member since 2009 · 358 posts · 306 votes
14y

You've got the right idea now, watch what happens with the meth house and learn. As a first-time flipper, don't jump into the deep end of the pool right away. There's a steep learning curve. Do a simpler flip first. Paint and carpet, minor repairs. No gut rehab, no additions, no moving structural walls, no foundation issues, no fire, no meth. Maximize your chance of success.

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  • Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2012 · 131 posts · 83 votes
    14y

    When selling the house your going to have to sign a disclosure statement and one of the questions asked deals with drug use in the house. You'll have to check yes and thats a big turn off for a buyer. But if you do a total rehab you might be able to get away with it. I do them often and about the size you do. Here are my costs. (Atlanta costs)

    Demo includes - tear out plaster walls, doors, windows, insulation, wiring. Get it down to the studs - $2300 - $2600

    New wiring - $3000
    Hang and finish sheetrock on a 1600 sqft house - $4500
    Interior paint - $2500 - $3500
    Nice hardwood floors installed, sanded and stained - $3.75 - 4.5 sqft
    Kitchen - really depends 8-15k
    Master Bath - depends as well - 3-4k
    Second bath 2k max
    All new plumbing - $2300
    Permits - $500
    Dumpster - $350
    ect...

    If you stand to only make 50k and never done this before I would stay away because your ALWAYS going to spend more the first time on something new. Trust me.. I did as well.

    Hows the location? If the location is prime then I might go for it. If it's iffy then I'd say no.

  • Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Seems like a high risk investment. First of all, I would want to know what a worst case hazmat cleanup would cost. I would talk to a couple of experienced contractors in the area and get some estimates. They will be able to give you some idea of what the house will look like when they are done.

    I have no idea what your assumptions include in the repair costs. They might be reasonable, but they are probably not based on an inspection. There may well be problems that you are not factoring in.

    The other thought is you definitely need to determine what you will be required to disclose at the time of sale. It is quite possible that the home will sell for less because the fact it was a meth house at some point.

    Just a few thoughts to consider when bidding on this property.

  • Real Estate Investor · Loveland, CO · Member since 2012 · 23 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Thank you Watson. As far as being a turn off for the buyer, I read somewhere that in the state of Colorado, if a property has been completely cleaned and got a certification that you don't have to disclose that it was ever a meth house.

    Thanks Charles. How's the location? It's in a fantastic neighborhood. The kind I wish I grew up in. It's hard to believe what was going on in that house in a neighborhood like that.

    I probably should stay away from this, but I'm new and it just seems like if I miss out on something that I'll never get that opportunity again. I know I'm wrong.... I hope I'm wrong. Opportunities are always there right? I just gotta keep looking.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Watson Smith:
    When selling the house your going to have to sign a disclosure statement and one of the questions asked deals with drug use in the house. You'll have to check yes and thats a big turn off for a buyer. But if you do a total rehab you might be able to get away with it. I do them often and about the size you do. Here are my costs. (Atlanta costs)

    It's really going to depend on the specific Seller's Disclosure Statement that is typical in your area, and how finely you want to split hairs. For example, in the new Georgia Disclosure statement (2012), there is a question that specifically asks about whether the house was ever used to produce meth. No way of getting around that.

    In the old form (which I still use, btw), that question doesn't exist. But, there is a question about whether "environmental contaminants" have ever been used in the house. I'm not a meth expert, so I don't know if the chemicals used are technically considered "environment contaminants," but that might require a "yes" answer.

    Most disclosures will ask something along the lines of, "Do you know of any other adverse conditions of the property that haven't been addressed in the rest of this document?" I have no idea what a judge would expect the answer to be for that question if the meth house were fully remediated, but it is a risk if you don't disclose.

    So, in terms of disclosures, see what your state requires, and perhaps talk to an attorney if you have any questions about whether you do/don't need to disclose.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Watson Smith:

    In the old form (which I still use, btw), that question doesn't exist. But, there is a question about whether "environmental contaminants" have ever been used in the house. I'm not a meth expert, so I don't know if the chemicals used are technically considered "environment contaminants," but that might require a "yes" answer

    "Environmental contaminants"? Most households have environmental contaminants in use (or in storage) every day. Chlorine bleach and ammonia are contaminants on their own and when mixed together make deadly mustard gas. Used batteries and used motor oil are contaminants in CA and require special disposal fees.

    This reminds me of the ridiculousness of requiring disclosure of a death in the house issue. Every really old house had someone die in it. Maybe the states will eventually just go with a "Stigma" clause to protect home buyers. Calling it a stigma should cover just about everything: Is it haunted? Did any card carrying members of ACLU ever live there? Did any home schoolers live there?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    14y

    Hey Marie,

    I agree with you that disclosures in general are poorly constructed; just to clarify the exact wording of the disclosure for this issue:

    "Are there now or have there ever been any underground tanks or toxic or hazardous substances such as asbestos, urea- formaldehyde, methane gas, radioactive material, radon, mold, benzene or other environmental contaminants on or in the property?"

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    Personally I'd stay away. It's a can of worms, with no way of knowing what costs will eventually be. Huge risk! If you want to gamble, go to Vegas, at least you'll have fun!

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    "I'm very new to real estate investing."

    "It's going up for auction (starting) at $50,000"

    These two items should make you stay away from a meth property.Making a bad investment can wipe out your other good ones when starting up.Don't go out of the gate too fast too soon.

    Let someone else make the mistake of overpaying at auction.

  • Real Estate Investor · Loveland, CO · Member since 2012 · 23 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    I've been thinking about it. You guys are a great help. I do appreciate your input. I'm going to watch that house during and after the auction and see what happens to it. I tend to make what should be something slow and easy into something huge. I've almost completely remodeled my entire house because of small little things here and there that I wanted to change that turned into complete renovations down to the studs. I don't regret it, but trying to bite off more than I can chew in this situation would be a bad idea. There will always be another opportunity. I keep telling myself that, but at the same time, I can't watch too many go by.

  • Investor · West Bloomfield, MI · Member since 2009 · 358 posts · 306 votes
    14y

    You've got the right idea now, watch what happens with the meth house and learn. As a first-time flipper, don't jump into the deep end of the pool right away. There's a steep learning curve. Do a simpler flip first. Paint and carpet, minor repairs. No gut rehab, no additions, no moving structural walls, no foundation issues, no fire, no meth. Maximize your chance of success.

  • Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    14y

    Jeanette J., I posted this thread on my FB page requesting comments from my connections who actually had knowledge of meth houses. Here are the comments:

    Nick Aalerud Meth labs are tough... definitely not for newer investors...
    19 hours ago · Like.

    James Gage Have to encase them or do a total rip out like lead....
    13 hours ago · Like.

    James Gage If you encase don't forget vapor barriers.
    13 hours ago · Like.

    Nick Aalerud First you need to call the local police station though, to ensure investigations are not ongoing. They can also help in determining the extent, how old, etc. After, Jim is right. Gutting is usually the best way, using safety equipment.

    So the concensus is stay away, you are smart to make that decision.

  • Real Estate Investor · Loveland, CO · Member since 2012 · 23 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    Thank you all. I have stayed away. The auction ends tomorrow. Someone actually bid on it, but the reserves hasn't been met.

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