Is it safe to invest in Detroit???

Is it safe to invest in Detroit???

Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
Hello everyone!!! I’m exploring the idea of investing out of state. I been researching Detroit, and it looks like there can be potential there. Any advice on the Detroit market? Any zip codes you guys can recommend?
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Investor · Plymouth, MI · Member since 2016 · 48 posts · 70 votes
8y

I grew up in Plymouth, a suburb just west of Detroit.  I now have flipped hundreds of homes and happen to run a property management company that has over 3,000 rentals and 85 W-2 team members, many live in the city.  My little sister lived in Detroit for a long time.  I am a HUGE supporter of the revitalization efforts, but I have to share the real scoop.  I have nothing to gain to tell you to what I am going to say, so please take as my advice from the bottom of my heart to help you become successful.  Here are the details of Detroit proper and my HUGE recommendation to take a look at the VERY investable suburbs that also offer great yields and FAR less issues.  We have homes in St. Louis, Baltimore and the South Side of Chicago... but Detroit is different from them all.  

1)  Remodeled nice homes (that you will be all in around $40K to $50K) will have hundreds of people that want to rent for $800/mo to $900/mo.  This surprises most and this is where is seems great.  But it is actually not good.  As a manager, it is incredibly difficult to handle what will amount to 100 to 200 hundred calls in a couple days for a property while 90% will end in an unqualified tenant.   

2)  The police do not respond in Detroit.  Period.  Full Stop.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Your property manager is NOT the police.  Your appliances will be stolen in broad daylight.  Your tenant will want to break a lease because a neighbor was murdered (this happened to us 3 months ago).  Your tenant will have belongings stolen and it will break your heart because the police won't even show up.  As a manager, we will buy back the copper pipes from the people that stole them, because that is how it is.  Appliances, HVAC and copper are traded in alleys.  People will walk straight into your home and take everything and the police WILL NOT EVEN RESPOND TO THE CALL.  

3)  You will get a tenant and you will get them fast.  With our system, less then 2 weeks.  But set aside $5K a year to replace stolen items.  Some say 50% of rent is a reasonable reserve for repairs, in Detroit, it is probably closer to 70%.  

4)  Section 8 - Many like section 8.  the Detroit Housing Authority is special.  They simply don't respond.  Everyone is eventually made right over time, but I have had 2 to 4 months pass prior to getting the first payment.  They catch it up, but this wreaks havoc with cash flow if you have 10 units.   

5)  Water Authority - They refuse to turn water into anyone's name unless you show up in person (or have a lot of docs to let us do it).  Trust me, this is not a great place to go.  Chalk up a day of standing in line.  The amount of properties with outstanding water bills is shocking.  

6)  Taxes are Rediculous - Over 50% of ALL properties in Detroit are currently behind on taxes.  Think about that!  This is not the great recession, this is the great boom!  Detroit is 75 mills for investors making it the highest tax rate of any city in Michigan.  That works out to nearly 4% of the value of a home.  So a $50K home may be $2K a year in tax.  Imagine if you actually purchase a nice $200K home.... yep... could reach tax of over $8K/yr!  Wowza!!!  This, of course, leads to corruption and the non-payment issue and then the annual tax auctions where you can buy these lovely gems for $500.   But remember, there are hundreds of thousands of homes behind on taxes.  The numbers are off the charts.  

7)  Income tax - The city punishes those that liive in the city with a 1.25% income tax.  They then hit you with an additional $1.25% if you work there too.  This is a 2.5% tax that makes sure anyone with income will more often chose the subburbs.  (more on that in a second)

8)  87% of Detroit transactions closed cash in 2017.  For our California friends, this was not because of the huge level of assets in the city.  These deals are all of the out of state investors that purchase homes only to see all the issues above and bail out a  year or two later and pass on to the next out of state investor.  

9)  Schools- The schools are rated a 1.  A 1!   The only blessing is that Michigan has schools of choice to help kids that stuck here and they can use vouchers in Michigan to goto charter schools.  Outside of that, the public schools system is completely unproductive by any measure and ripe with corpution and fraud as many members of the school system have been sent to jail for issues with rigging bidding with vendors.  

10)  Crime - 43 murders per 100,000 in 2017.  This means that you 1/2,500 shot of being murdered in the city.  If you figure that everyone might know a couple hondred people, it is highly likely you or someone you know is murdered every year.  That is INSAIN.  

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What I would HIGHLY recommend.

Consider the suburbs of Detroit!   The step up to cites that include Redford, Livonia, Warren, Ferndale and Westland are a completely different game from Detroit.  

At the time of this writing, homes can still be purchased in the $75K to $125K range in all of those areas and get well 10% to 12% CAP rates. Prices are rising so that won't last forever, but it is there.

Big difference - 

1) The police respond and are active in enforcing laws to protect your tenants and homes

2)  The schools are much better

3)  The crime is MUCH lower  

4)  You will be happier with your property manager

5)  The homes will actually sell to end buyers, not just out of state investors.

6)  People pay taxes and water bills in every city other then Detroit nearly all of the time

Can you make a HUGE return in Detroit!  HELL YEAH!!!  I have clients that do.  But if you are a newbie, if you have not bought over 100 homes in your career, if you are using a decent percent of your wealth to invest, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not choose this city as your tuition bill.  So many have paid the price prior, please learn from them.

From a Property Manager in Detroit that Loves the City but cares about investors mental stability.

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  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
    8y

    Seems like everyone is pretty skeptical about Detroit later.....just seen on BP podcasts

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    8y

    I was going to just pass this one by, but then I decided to open the post and read it.

    First, I have to ask, you do realize that Michigan isn't in Detroit?  I ask that question because many investors group the two together, as if their (very) limited understanding of Detroit, applies to all of Michigan.  It doesn't...but you knew that...right?

    To answer your question, you can make a lot of money in Detroit...and its suburbs.  Like EVERY OTHER MARKET, in the U.S., it has areas you should and shouldn't invest in...and contrary to what @Irina Belkofer infers, not "everyone is pretty skeptical about Detroit later".    

    I invest in the western suburbs.  A great area to invest in for both cash flow and flip profit.  Many from western states invest in the same area for cash flow, and I'm very lucky to have them as partners.  You can by the same house here, that you can in California, for example, for a fraction of the cost...and cash flow (with a PM and financing), at least $3 - 400/month.  I see CA. investors flip in their state, take the profits, and buy for CF here...all the time.

  • Investor · Benton Harbor, MI · Member since 2013 · 257 posts · 140 votes
    8y

    Detroit is blowing up, but like @Joe Villeneuve said not all areas are the same. Find good people (realtor, property manager, contractor, etc) to hook up with and it will make the road much smoother. 

    Investors have won and lost in Detroit, just like everywhere.

  • Investor · Corona, CA · Member since 2014 · 746 posts · 372 votes
    8y

    Take a trip and see. Nothing like first hand experience and meet with local realtors, contractors and attend an RE meetup while you're there.

    There are good and bad areas to invest everywhere. 

  • Specialist · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 12 votes
    8y
    @Jacqueline Carrington following.... I’ve a friend who owns some property there. I also have interest. What kind of investing would you want to do? @Ryan MacDonald
  • Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    I have a few properties on the outside of Detroit. Its a great area, and the entire city is coming back. Prices in the downtown core are rising every year. With Ford now buying the trains station in the downtown this is going to be great for investors. 

  • Oxford, MI · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 15 votes
    8y

    @Maria Luna hello Maria, I have recently been strictly investing in buy and hold SFR in Detroit. I am up to 4 rentals, all performing very well.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Maria Luna I gotta agree with @Joe Villeneuve. There are deals to be had in most types of market. Plus, there are still a lot of affluent communities in the suburbs and all over Michigan. 

    Detroit has gone through tough times but not everyone is skeptical about it. Dan Gilbert is spending a fortune (multiple BILLIONS of dollars) plus small-to-medium scale manufacturing (e.g. Shinola) is expanding. 

    Best to do more research and do actual tours of the market/properties.

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    @Joe Villeneuve

    Hello Joe,

    Thank you for your reply, I appreciate all the information you provided. I’ll keep all of this in mind for my research.

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    @Marshall Downs

    Hello Marshall,

    Thank you for your advice, I’m trying to soak as much as I can. This group is awesome!

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    @Jacqueline Carrington

    Hello Jacqueline,

    That’s exactly what I’m trying to do. Hopefully I’ll be able to fly there by next month, and drive around so I can see this properties. Thank you for your advice.

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    @Damien Kavanaugh

    Hello Damien,

    I'm happy to hear that. You just gave me more hope on what I'm trying to do. Do you have SFR or multi family's in Detroit? I been looking at both, and really like the prices.

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    @Omar Khan

    Hello Omar, 

    That’s great information. I been doing my research and feel pretty confident about investing there. Thank you for your reply.

  • Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 891 votes
    8y
    @Maria Luna South and south central Detroit is different from the rest of Detroit. You can also throw in Palmer Park and Indian Village and a few others as well but you probably thinking the other areas that I didn't mention are war zones which they are..
  • Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    8y
    @David Simovski I’d love to hear about what you have going on in Detroit. What areas are you focusing on?
  • Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes
    8y

    @Maria Luna prefer Cleveland,  pricing has been ricing each year , seems like monthly , good luck to you 

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    @Hai Loc

    Hello there, 

    I appreciate that information. I have done some research and I’m aware that I might want to avoid some areas. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    @Bob Prisco

    Hello Bob,

    I'll keep that in mind. Do you invest on SFR or multi family?

  • Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes
    8y

    @Maria Luna  BOTH, 1- 80 units . 

  • Rental Property Investor · Altamonte Springs, FL · Member since 2018 · 185 posts · 97 votes
    8y

    Oh ok. Sounds great! I’m just starting, so I’m going small and working my way up. I have two single family so far that I’m renting out. I have good equity on both and plan on using it for my next investment. I want my next deal to be a multifamily, and would like a four unit.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    Yes if you know what you are doing. No if you don't know what you are doing. If you don't know that market very well you are speculating. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2017 · 74 posts · 18 votes
    8y

    I now have 3 properties in the western side. I live in NJ and have a great agent who is also a property manager.  Do your homework but Curbed Detroit can have a lot of info. Downtown boomed so much even I couldnt afford a condo there hahaha. 

    https://detroit.curbed.com/2018/5/18/17369214/5-detroit-neighborhood-developments-watch

  • Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Omar Khan:

    @Maria Luna I gotta agree with @Joe Villeneuve. There are deals to be had in most types of market. Plus, there are still a lot of affluent communities in the suburbs and all over Michigan. 

    Detroit has gone through tough times but not everyone is skeptical about it. Dan Gilbert is spending a fortune (multiple BILLIONS of dollars) plus small-to-medium scale manufacturing (e.g. Shinola) is expanding. 

    Best to do more research and do actual tours of the market/properties.

     It isn't "Safe" to invest anywhere. Your money and sanity are at risk. If you want "Safe" try gold. ;-)

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    8y
    It's safer to invest with me in Philly but wherever you invest do your due diligence.
  • Realtor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2015 · 211 posts · 104 votes
    8y
    @Maria Luna it depends how much cash you have. Detroit is a cash market you can buy properties for 20K, but they will need many repairs. You can do a lot here just need to know the right people. Detroit and the suburbs are 2 different things.
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