Taking a stand on a $50,000 lie progress

Taking a stand on a $50,000 lie progress

Investor · Peabody, MA · Member since 2015 · 114 posts · 107 votes

We are looking for others to join a lawsuit against Success Path, Flipping Formula and other companies involved in taking millions from people promising things they never deliver. The more people we can get to file the better our chances are of succeeding.

Here's why...

I've written a couple of posts about my experience with real estate investing 'guru's' and wanted to provide and update and ask for some help. You can see my story in the forum post 'Taking a stand on a $50,000 lie'. While my loss of money is tragic, it's not as tragic as the insane amount of money these people are making and others are losing even as we speak.

Here's how it works...

Once you realize you've lost thousands on empty promises and fraudulent practices you contact the company and ask for your money back. The Director of Customer Service, Shane Andrus will contact you via phone and try to make you think you are the problem while attempting scare you out of taking further legal. He'll likely insult you and accuse you of hidden agenda's and financial problems that you are looking to solve at their expense. He'll tell you that if you pursue legal action you will spend thousands and get NOTHING. He will offer you a fraction of what you lost if you sign an agreement first. This agreement states you should never speak of the settlement they gave you and never mention their name in a negative context ever again. It doesn't guarantee a date in which you will receive the money and some have complained they never saw the money even after they signed the agreement.

The business structure...

My lawyer has done some research and found a very tangled web of businesses that run various seminars, bootcamps, coaching, etc. The parent company of all of the companies they use is Zurixx, https://www.bbb.org/utah/business-reviews/training... for a larger list and more info. You'll have to scroll down to Alternative Business Names in the left column.

We THINK this is how they shelter themselves from lawsuits. Anyone who files will likely list Success Path or whatever company they had experience with as a defendant. But that company MAY not have any assets or there is some other catch. It's funny because thinking back to the Vegas Seminar JJ Childer's pretty much explained how they work and recommended investors structure their businesses the same way. The catch phrase is "Own Nothing, Do Nothing". This means you need two companies. One to own the assets and the other to do business under. The idea is that you purchase a property with Company A, LLC and do the work as Company B, LLC. This way if some shenanigans happen and someone has grounds to sue Company B for operating issues, Company B has nothing to lose...Company A has all of the assets. We aren't positive this is how they work but it's a strong possibility.

Just for fun..

I invite you to go to Zurixx's web page http://www.zurixx.com/about-us/our-team/ for a visual of who we are dealing with.

Please PM me if you are interested in getting involved and helping all of us that have lost money and others who will in the future. This affects people of all ages. Picture your parents, friends and other family losing all they have because they put their trust and confidence is these people.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y

can you be more specific about promises made and not kept.. 

Its no secret that these companies are in the business of selling education.. ( however did they promise results)  you can sell education but everyone's results will be different..  same with collage some graduate top of class and go on to stellar careers others never do any thing with their degree.

I have attended many of these as a vendor... I would say my main issue with their business practice is 

1. encouraging payment through credit card .. IE putting student in massive expensive debt.. but then again look at all the student loans out there.

2. tugging at the heart strings.. MLM based presentations  lead with why they are doing this all for the family big picks of family etc.. those are red flags.. I personally spend plenty of time with my kids I dont need them to paint some rosy picture that if I had financial freedom I would all of a sudden spend every waking hour with my kiddos  plus they don't want to hang with dad anyway.

3. mentorship that is nothing more than kids in boiler rooms in Utah.. I have personally walked through Premiers floors and Nudges floors.. hardly RE professionals helping.

Just curious also of what you expected did you think taking this course would some how lead you to real estate richs.. to me that smacks of being highly unrealistic for most sensible folks.. this is a very tough industry NO one can give you basic training and all of a sudden your a rock star.. but did you believe that would be the case ??? just curious... 

Also its important to note that when you go into a grocery store and you see Arnold Palmer wine do you think he is making the wine or made the wine... No he just sells his name.. this is marketing one o one sports stars do it all the time its called endorsements.. so these TV dudes are paid for endorsers for the back end offices that do all the work..  and like Nudge they front  Tony Robbins and others that are not even related to RE.. but they do the Yancy's also.. they are in the seminar business.

I suspect there is some room for deceptive practices here.. I know a group has filed a class action against Armando montalongo... not sure where it will go.. But I have been to a few of his deals over the years and I have funded many of his students that have gone on to do very well.  But when I am at these events I can tell right away that the majority have no clue and will never do anything.. but there is always those 10 to 20 students that walk out of there with the knowledge they learned and become players.. 

its just like anything real estate related.. 100% of people try RE sales or wholesaling and 50 to 90% fail straight away.. you have guys out there selling how to wholesale programs for 10 to 40k.. and that is even worse than the flipping guys.  And then there is the Note school 30 to 40k to learn to buy notes ... etc etc.

So as stated what specifically other than you lost money is your main point and grievance with this guru company.  Good job on the detective work.. but this is well known to those of us in the industry.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    can you be more specific about promises made and not kept.. 

    Its no secret that these companies are in the business of selling education.. ( however did they promise results)  you can sell education but everyone's results will be different..  same with collage some graduate top of class and go on to stellar careers others never do any thing with their degree.

    I have attended many of these as a vendor... I would say my main issue with their business practice is 

    1. encouraging payment through credit card .. IE putting student in massive expensive debt.. but then again look at all the student loans out there.

    2. tugging at the heart strings.. MLM based presentations  lead with why they are doing this all for the family big picks of family etc.. those are red flags.. I personally spend plenty of time with my kids I dont need them to paint some rosy picture that if I had financial freedom I would all of a sudden spend every waking hour with my kiddos  plus they don't want to hang with dad anyway.

    3. mentorship that is nothing more than kids in boiler rooms in Utah.. I have personally walked through Premiers floors and Nudges floors.. hardly RE professionals helping.

    Just curious also of what you expected did you think taking this course would some how lead you to real estate richs.. to me that smacks of being highly unrealistic for most sensible folks.. this is a very tough industry NO one can give you basic training and all of a sudden your a rock star.. but did you believe that would be the case ??? just curious... 

    Also its important to note that when you go into a grocery store and you see Arnold Palmer wine do you think he is making the wine or made the wine... No he just sells his name.. this is marketing one o one sports stars do it all the time its called endorsements.. so these TV dudes are paid for endorsers for the back end offices that do all the work..  and like Nudge they front  Tony Robbins and others that are not even related to RE.. but they do the Yancy's also.. they are in the seminar business.

    I suspect there is some room for deceptive practices here.. I know a group has filed a class action against Armando montalongo... not sure where it will go.. But I have been to a few of his deals over the years and I have funded many of his students that have gone on to do very well.  But when I am at these events I can tell right away that the majority have no clue and will never do anything.. but there is always those 10 to 20 students that walk out of there with the knowledge they learned and become players.. 

    its just like anything real estate related.. 100% of people try RE sales or wholesaling and 50 to 90% fail straight away.. you have guys out there selling how to wholesale programs for 10 to 40k.. and that is even worse than the flipping guys.  And then there is the Note school 30 to 40k to learn to buy notes ... etc etc.

    So as stated what specifically other than you lost money is your main point and grievance with this guru company.  Good job on the detective work.. but this is well known to those of us in the industry.

  • Investor · Peabody, MA · Member since 2015 · 114 posts · 107 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    Please see my other forum post "Taking a stand on a $50,000 lie". It lists details of what they promised and did not deliver. Sorry I'm not sure I understand how your Arnold Palmer reference relates to what happened. Good for you for being in the industry for a long time and knowing what others don't but it doesn't help anyone to insult those that don't know what they don't know. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    Erica in what way did I insult you...  ???  just asking questions and giving my perspective as someone who has actually been to these events... many that post just share gossip and have never actually been to one... 

    what the Arnold Palmer point is... that ALL of these TV gurus are celebs selling their endorsement power.  

    also were is return on rentals are they in Chicago ??? 

    this is another very much discussed point.. buying turn key homes from ANY VENDOR in the US and you have to sell in a few years a loss with occur  this is a fact. 

    its no different than when you buy a fixer upper in your area and you want to sell it retail.. you as the owner operator want top dollar right... you sell it make your dough... your buyer needs to sell but your in a market that really does not appreciate they are going to take a major loss selling it.. 

    Even in great markets you have sales costs and unless the home jumped in that 12 month period ALOT its going to create a loss when you go to sell..  

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Erica in what way did I insult you...  ???  just asking questions and giving my perspective as someone who has actually been to these events... many that post just share gossip and have never actually been to one... 

    what the Arnold Palmer point is... that ALL of these TV gurus are celebs selling their endorsement power.  

    also were is return on rentals are they in Chicago ??? 

    this is another very much discussed point.. buying turn key homes from ANY VENDOR in the US and you have to sell in a few years a loss with occur  this is a fact. 

    its no different than when you buy a fixer upper in your area and you want to sell it retail.. you as the owner operator want top dollar right... you sell it make your dough... your buyer needs to sell but your in a market that really does not appreciate they are going to take a major loss selling it.. 

    Even in great markets you have sales costs and unless the home jumped in that 12 month period ALOT its going to create a loss when you go to sell..  

     You didn't insult her...and you knew that.  I too have been to many, many of these seminars and classes.  Some you learn from, some you don't.  Some go to college and never make it in their chosen field, or any for that matter.  Education/knowledge is only part of the equation for success.  What you do with it in the end is what matters just as much.  Not everyone takes the same information and does the same thing with it...and there are a number of reasonable reasons for this.

    Also, not every wildly successful person, in any field (including REI...maybe especially REI), was successful 1st time out. Persistence, and applying what you learn as you go is the reason for their success. If Edison, Vanderbilt, and Carnegie hadn't followed this path, who knows where would all be.

    Yes, there are many questionable agendas out there, just as there are many sources of knowledge.

  • Investor · Peabody, MA · Member since 2015 · 114 posts · 107 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    its no different than when you buy a fixer upper in your area and you want to sell it retail.. you as the owner operator want top dollar right... you sell it make your dough... your buyer needs to sell but your in a market that really does not appreciate they are going to take a major loss selling it.. 

    Even in great markets you have sales costs and unless the home jumped in that 12 month period ALOT its going to create a loss when you go to sell..  

    Actually it's very different because when I sell the fixer upper I'm not providing buyers with false comps to inflate the value of the property. The loss would have been even more if I sold the property the day after I bought it. I'm not factoring any sales costs losses, just pure property value. As I stated in my post, it was my fault for not verifying the information I was provided and my goal is to make sure others don't make the same mistake.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    did you get a loan on property and did the lender give you copy of appraisal. Or was it owner fiancé or cash ?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    if you think the turn key company gave you a poor deal you should make a review on turn key reviews that will have a greater impact than no posts. As those shopping turn rely on real time reviews to help them pick a reputable provider

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    along with rip off report. Is super strong

  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Unfortunately I agree with everyone else that this is just an expensive mistake. whether you get them now or not is already questionable. Even if you did win, these weeds will find a way to sprout up in a different place under a new name.

    Not saying you are stupid, but I've realized there is a market for stupid people. I can't go one hour on youtube without Tai lopez or some other "real estate professional" commercial promising education. I can't scroll through a couple pages of facebook without seeing someone advertising a Ponzi or pyramid scheme with hundreds of people commenting, "how do I do this".

    Good luck in your fight and I do hope you get something back, but don't be discouraged if nothing comes out of it either

  • Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 293 posts · 175 votes
    9y

    I agree that success path is trash. I went expecting to learn some new things about investing but was met with a high speed, over the top sales presentation, that when completed...people were literally sprinting up to the front to pay the $2500 or whatever it was. 

    Even as a novice, I was sitting there thinking "wow, this is trash". I believe that suing them for loss you incurred as an individual that can make your own decisions and was likely provided with documentation stating what the agreement was won't get very far. Best of luck! If you figure out a class action I'm certain there's tons of people that will get in on it with you!

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Paia, HI · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 311 votes
    9y

    Having run and attended events like these, I say RUN! An experienced, knowledgeable realtor or lender should be able to teach you everything you need to know to invest in real estate for FREE. Most of the schemes touted by the real estate education people simply don't pencil out in real life . . . like wholesaling, seller financing, etc. 

    Sorry for your swindle @Erica Nagle and good luck with your lawsuit! However, I daresay your money would be better spent invested in real estate, stocks, your 401k offering a more reliable return and positive vibe.

    It's hard to let go when you've been had, but having pursued such lawsuits myself, and won, at the end of the day after attorney's fees it's hard to come out ahead, much less even collect on your judgement. 

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Loren Clive:

    Having run and attended events like these, I say RUN! An experienced, knowledgeable realtor or lender should be able to teach you everything you need to know to invest in real estate for FREE. Most of the schemes touted by the real estate education people simply don't pencil out in real life . . . like wholesaling, seller financing, etc. 

    Sorry for your swindle @Erica Nagle and good luck with your lawsuit! However, I daresay your money would be better spent invested in real estate, stocks, your 401k offering a more reliable return and positive vibe.

    It's hard to let go when you've been had, but having pursued such lawsuits myself, and won, at the end of the day after attorney's fees it's hard to come out ahead, much less even collect on your judgement. 

    No, not ALL of them work for everyone. Mainly because not all strategies work in every market. Part of the learning experience is being able to know which strategies work where, and how. The mistake most REI "trainees" make, is they assume that once they attend one of these teaching sessions, they can walk out the door and start doing it. That's is about as logical as saying, "I just got my college degree...now I'm going to start making money big time, because I know it all".

    In both cases, the learning has just begun. To coin a famous movie line by Tom Hanks, "Of course it's hard, if it was easy everyone would do it. It's the hard that makes it great". REI is no different.

    Bottom line, it only works if you make it work.  I have been very successful learning from these sessions.  They are starting points.  I've developed my own systems that spring off of them.

    That kind of sounds like every type of learning you can experience, from traditional school to real life experiences.

    Oh, and if you are going to rely on a RE Agent for your education, you're in big trouble.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Paia, HI · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 311 votes
    9y

    @Joe Villeneuve I'm sorry you don't respect realtors. Granted, some realtors, just like any professional, don't deserve your respect. However, you may have noticed a lot of experienced real estate investors, some on this site including myself, are realtors.

    If you can't rely on your realtor as a reliable source of real estate education, you should not be working with them.

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Loren Clive:

    @Joe Villeneuve I'm sorry you don't respect realtors. Granted, some realtors, just like any professional, don't deserve your respect. However, you may have noticed a lot of experienced real estate investors, some on this site including myself, are realtors.

    If you can't rely on your realtor as a reliable source of real estate education, you should not be working with them.

    LOL. Sorry if I gave the impression I didn't respect RE Agents...I do. In fact, I would never leave home without them. I partner with them, but I would never use them as a source of education in REI. I would however, use them first when it comes to getting information in REI. There is a huge difference.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe Villeneuve  as a RE broker for 42 years in 3 states and well over 2,000 transactions under my belt. I take offense to your statement  LOL.. :) give us RE brokers a break.

    No question some are just starting.. and no questions some may have the experience level as someone like myself.. or other piers of mine.. but we usually are not working with newbies.. I know I don't and would not..   there are some sharp brokers on this site.

    Wayne Brooks   Jim Wise  Greg Hall  Mark Gallagher to name just a few... so like with Guru's can't paint a broad brush  :)....  

    However for the record I have paid far more for education over the years than the OP is talking about.. starting with Carlton sheets.. but most of it was focused on how to SELL and close deals.. Not on deal structure.. but I realize now we are in a whole new world of internet and social media and how to advertise.. in my day it was an Ad 365 days a week in the San Fran Chronicle and I had the only 800 # in my county... so guess who got the calls.. LOL... Plus I was one of the only Realtors that worked every weekend.. rain or shine Sat. and Sunday.. Made a lot of money on Sunday afternoon after church .. people go to lunch then go looking at homes.. my competition was home or doing whatever people do on weekends... you have to learn the system when to put the hours in what hours of the day are a waste to work etc.

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Joe Villeneuve  as a RE broker for 42 years in 3 states and well over 2,000 transactions under my belt. I take offense to your statement  LOL.. :) give us RE brokers a break.

    No question some are just starting.. and no questions some may have the experience level as someone like myself.. or other piers of mine.. but we usually are not working with newbies.. I know I don't and would not..   there are some sharp brokers on this site.

    Wayne Brooks   Jim Wise  Greg Hall  Mark Gallagher to name just a few... so like with Guru's can't paint a broad brush  :)....  

    However for the record I have paid far more for education over the years than the OP is talking about.. starting with Carlton sheets.. but most of it was focused on how to SELL and close deals.. Not on deal structure.. but I realize now we are in a whole new world of internet and social media and how to advertise.. in my day it was an Ad 365 days a week in the San Fran Chronicle and I had the only 800 # in my county... so guess who got the calls.. LOL... Plus I was one of the only Realtors that worked every weekend.. rain or shine Sat. and Sunday.. Made a lot of money on Sunday afternoon after church .. people go to lunch then go looking at homes.. my competition was home or doing whatever people do on weekends... you have to learn the system when to put the hours in what hours of the day are a waste to work etc.

     LOL.  Love it.  Like I said @Jay Hinrichs "I wouldn't leave home without them". Getting REI training from them, not usually though. Most are Agent first, Investor only after they see the biggest check going to the REI, their check the smallest, and thinking, "I did a lot of work here, and..."

    So they go out and become REI at the same time. These are the ones I usually end up training, or one of my partners (he IS a RE Agent) trains them. The reason is mostly REA's are trained to look at deals through the eyes of the homeowner, they have almost no training in the area of creative financing and "how money works" (sometimes they think they do though), but they have a great deal of training on the MLS, and all the legal paperwork and processes that goes into the offer through closing (especially HUD).

    Like I said, "I wouldn't leave home without them".  They are one of, if not the #1 most important, person on my Power Team.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe Villeneuve  also really depends on your market and the median price points.. my wife last year closed 14 million on her own and that was 32 transactions...

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Joe Villeneuve  also really depends on your market and the median price points.. my wife last year closed 14 million on her own and that was 32 transactions...

     WOW!!! Nice work...and yes, the Market is the most important thing to success anyway.

  • Member since 2019 · 113 posts · 25 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Erica in what way did I insult you...  ???  just asking questions and giving my perspective as someone who has actually been to these events... many that post just share gossip and have never actually been to one... 

    what the Arnold Palmer point is... that ALL of these TV gurus are celebs selling their endorsement power.  

    also were is return on rentals are they in Chicago ??? 

    this is another very much discussed point.. buying turn key homes from ANY VENDOR in the US and you have to sell in a few years a loss with occur  this is a fact. 

    its no different than when you buy a fixer upper in your area and you want to sell it retail.. you as the owner operator want top dollar right... you sell it make your dough... your buyer needs to sell but your in a market that really does not appreciate they are going to take a major loss selling it.. 

    Even in great markets you have sales costs and unless the home jumped in that 12 month period ALOT its going to create a loss when you go to sell..  

     Could someone enlighten me that why there are so many MLM companies (or sub MLM company like real estate guru courses) in Utah? 

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