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Updated over 10 years ago, 06/10/2014
Help Me Design My House!
I've had conflicting thoughts about starting this topic, but figured that my real estate life is pretty much an open book anyway, so here goes...
My wife and I are in the process of designing our new house that we'll be building in Maryland, and we're looking for feedback on the design! We may not listen to all of it, but with all the smart people here on BP, we'd very much love to get some thoughts and ideas.
As background, we've already purchased the lot and are fairly constrained on what we can build, both from a setback standpoint and due to a rule in Maryland where if you disturb more than 5000 square feet of land, you have to go through a long and expensive process for approvals. So, we're essentially limited to a main living space (including garage) of 36' deep and a width of about 65'. This keeps us within the setbacks and mostly overlapping the structure we're tearing down (limiting the disturbance).
A few more thoughts on this whole thread:
- My wife put together all these drawings -- she's not an architect, engineer or drafts-person, so there may be issues with the design that aren't obvious to us...that's the type of feedback we're looking for!
- We're not looking for anyone to completely rework this. We know what's important to us in terms of basic floorplan (open, big kitchen, large master suite, flexible configuration in terms of rooms, etc). So, while I'm sure many will suggest our design is horrible, keep in mind that it's based on what we like.
- We're looking to keep the entire above-grade living area at about 2600-2700 square feet (with at least a small basement). That will give us the room we need, hopefully without exceeding our budget of about $300K.
- Resale is important to us, but secondary to having a house we love.
Other than that, we're open to any thoughts/suggestions/ideas, etc...
To download the PDF of the drawings (which can be enlarged for detail), click here:
And here are images of the PDF for those who don't want to download it:
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer
- Redding, CA & Bend OR
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@J Scott (your name never works right on the @mentions.. I always get a Scott J)
Anyway... LOVE the layout, and I wouldn't change a thing!
- Karen Margrave
Btw, I forgot the exterior elevation...that my wife sketched on the back of a Subway napkin... :)
Originally posted by Karen Margrave:
Anyway... LOVE the layout, and I wouldn't change a thing!
Thanks Karen!
Though there was a big part of me that was hoping you'd tear it apart... :)
I have to reserve my file downloads so can't see the pdf but, 5 (6?) bedrooms in a 2700 sq ft dwelling doesn't sound like a good ratio of living to sleeping space...
Originally posted by Ben R.:
This is actually an interesting point, and I don't know...as it's not clear how many bedrooms we have...
On the second floor, there is a master and two other bedrooms. Now, the master has an attached office area that has a separate entrance from the hallway, so it *could* be a 4th bedroom up there. But, it's relatively small, so I imagine it would more likely be used for a home office (attached to the master) or an extra walk-in closet. So, from our perspective, there are really only three bedrooms upstairs.
On the main level, there is a formal guest bedroom (next to a full bathroom), and then there is a room at the front of the house that will have glass french doors, so I don't imagine it will be considered a bedroom by most. More like a formal office, sitting room, or some other specialty room. But, of course, it could be a bedroom.
So, we look at it as a 4 bedroom house with a small extra room upstairs that is accessible from the master or from the hall and an extra room on the main level that is multi-purpose. But, I can certainly see how others would view it as a 5- or 6-bedroom house.
Would you have a recommendation for how to use the space if it weren't segregated into separate rooms? Or would you just make the entire house smaller and room the extraneous room or two?
Originally posted by J Scott:
Originally posted by Ben R.:
This is actually an interesting point, and I don't know...as it's not clear how many bedrooms we have...
On the second floor, there is a master and two other bedrooms. Now, the master has an attached office area that has a separate entrance from the hallway, so it *could* be a 4th bedroom up there. But, it's relatively small, so I imagine it would more likely be used for a home office (attached to the master) or an extra walk-in closet. So, from our perspective, there are really only three bedrooms upstairs.
On the main level, there is a formal guest bedroom (next to a full bathroom), and then there is a room at the front of the house that will have glass french doors, so I don't imagine it will be considered a bedroom by most. More like a formal office, sitting room, or some other specialty room. But, of course, it could be a bedroom.
So, we look at it as a 4 bedroom house with a small extra room upstairs that is accessible from the master or from the hall and an extra room on the main level that is multi-purpose. But, I can certainly see how others would view it as a 5- or 6-bedroom house.
Would you have a recommendation for how to use the space if it weren't segregated into separate rooms? Or would you just make the entire house smaller and room the extraneous room or two?
*********************************************************************************
I would not build it any smaller. 2700 sqft is actually a good size for a home w/ basement, in my opinion. I would limit it to three bedrooms though, especially if there is room to grow in the basement.
I would also pay attention to the number of full baths and how a resident would access that space. I've seen floor plans that require a person to walk through a hallway that is open to the family room and kitchen to get from their bedroom to the bathroom, and the bathroom serves as the powder room for the rest of the family. Not a good layout in my opinion. What makes it worse is that this house (we actually have a contract on this property) has three full bedrooms upstairs plus a media room all served by one full bath. What saves this project is that a little remodeling will allow another bathroom to go in upstairs.
But that is all simply my viewpoint. Your needs and wants are likely completely different.
Originally posted by Bryan R.:
I just want to know more about the "Margarita Deck". That should become a standard house feature. Someone call DR Horton.
That's my wife's version of a deck that isn't fully screened in to save some money, but is still big enough to run the length of the great room so as not to look weird when standing inside looking out... :-)
@J Scott , what is the site like? Any views and if so which way? Seems like the main living spaces are all out back. The combo of stairs and mud room might block off the entry and make it feel smaller than it is being tucked off to the side. It's a fairly symmetrical exterior so people might expect a central hall type space....not saying its good or bad, you can make either work.
I think you might want to look a little more at the stair location, make sure it's going to fit there. Personally I'd try and move it off to the side somewhere so you can have a little more visual connection to the front.
The only other comment would be to take a look at how the sun moves across, do you get daylight throughout the day or will the great room only be day lit in the am or pm?
She's done a good job with the sketching, have you looked at Sketchup at all? Lot of fun for modeling early ideas, not a really steep learning curve and I think they still have a free version.
(I know my profile says architect...I'm not registered and have yet to figure out how to put "designer"....my disclaimer)
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer
- Redding, CA & Bend OR
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@J Scott Women do much better jobs at layout, as we know how houses actually live! Kudos to your wife. The exterior looks like a craftsman influence?
I'm not sure which direction it will face, but the other poster that mentioned sunlight does bring up something that gets lost sometimes, so you want to make sure you get plenty of light in. It looks like you have lots of window space, though.
One suggestion, install a built in vac - your wife will LOVE you. Can't wait to see it progress.
- Karen Margrave
I'm not sure what all the pieces are in the master bedroom, if its all furniture, I think in real life it's going to be crowded.
Id swap positions of the master bath and that 10x11 room. Make that room your sitting room for the master bedroom. Or maybe split the space to incorporate a sitting room, his & hers closets, or area for the Mrs to sit and put on make-up/get ready.
I'd the make the upstairs bath a full jack & jill.
Main floor, there seems to be a huge open area to the right of the dining room. Would you want to put a 1/2 bath next to the stairs? The make the full bath dedicated to the bedroom. If guest are staying there, they would appreciate the privacy.
If you weren't in Atlanta, I'd say move the fireplace over to the wall with the screened in porch. Have a 2 way fireplace and you also have a full wall for the TV. I hate TVs over the fireplace.
I also don't understand the pocket door in the dining room to a mud room.With the wainscoting, it seems more formal. Then you open to a mud room? I'd like more windows there.
If you like any of my ideas, I can give you more. If you don't I'll stop now.
=)
oooh, something else just popped up when I looked at the basement. Move your laundry room into the extra space you have in that 10x11 room. Talk about your wife loving you! No sense taking loads of laundry down 2 flights of stairs. We have it and it's awesome.
OK, so I know I said I'd wait for feedback before I gave more opinions but . . . .I'd put a large shower in the 1st floor bedroom, no tub. Very useful for elderly who can't leave 1st floor and have trouble getting into tub.
I'd also make the closet in the office a wet bar. It can always be converted back down the road.
The fireplace on an interior wall seems odd; I'm used to seeing them on exterior walls to accommodate things like air intake.
I'm assuming that the linen closet on the first floor opens into the bathroom there; the bathroom door and this closet door might be bumping into each other a bit.
No window in that first floor bath? Or will it be in that tub / shower area? I would avoid placement of a window there if there is a shower head; that's just asking for trouble.
You might want to consider one large double-wide garage door rather than the two smaller ones. Much less likely to have the side mirrors grazing the doorway opening, and just easier to get in and out.
For the door to the grilling deck, it looks like you may not have allowed for a screen door there (I could just be not seeing it). If it were there, then the inside door there would swing into the great room space.
Looks like the upstairs bathrooms need to consider window placement too.
The master bath water closet looks too small to house a toilet that meets code for spacing to walls / adjacent fixtures.
Maybe a second entrance into the mud room from the front porch - the kids could use it to drag their stuff, toys, dirty shoes to instead of the foyer. They can't be expected to carry a garage remote all the time. The challenge would be to not make it look like a duplex, but it's a door at a 90degree angle
@J Scott we have a similar type floor plan to what you have drawn up. I'm just voicing my opinions so take it for what it's worth. My comments are along the line of what @Bryan H. said. The flow of the house coming in from the garage is a bit off. That is the way you'll be coming in 99% of the time and I think it just doesn't flow well into the kitchen.
I couldn't tell where you had planned to put the sink in the kitchen, is it in the island? If you are anything like my family the sink is stacked with dished till we can get around to doing them. So I don't know if you want that in the island. Also if its on the outer wall you got a nice view outside when your doing the dishes. :)
Think about pulling a laundry room upstairs. When your wife has to walk 2 floors to fluff something up or carry a basket up 2 floors it will get old fast. An elevator maybe? or Laundry shoot may be an option as well.
Your Master at 18x19 may feel cramped with a sitting area, you could reclaim some space and rework the kids bedrooms to get a different configuration for the J&J bath.
We've built three houses now and I think we finally got this one right, like everything its a learning experience.
Matt
p.s. I just finished your flipping book. I really enjoyed it, thanks so much for it. I hope to put it to good use soon.
Great comments, folks...thanks!
The wife is currently working v2 of the drawings...will post in the next day or two and you'll see a lot of the suggestions incorporated...
As promised, here are the revised drawings (low-res images below):
To address all the great comments, to point out some of the changes we made based on the comments and also to justify some of the things we're not changing:
- We don't have any say in how the house will sit on the lot and therefore which way it faces...we're just too constrained when it comes to zoning/planning. So, we can't do much about the orientation based on views or sun.
- We can't figure out a better arrangement for the stairs. Personally, I'm not thrilled with the stairs jutting into the great room, but I don't think it will be horrible, and it doesn't bother me that much.
- We moved the laundry from the basement to the main level. Agreed this makes much more sense, unless we wanted to put in a "laundry elevator"... :)
- We've allocated the room in the front of the house as the "Mom Room." This is my wife's favorite room. Given that we work from home and have 2 young kids at home with us, this is where she'll accomplish much of what needs to accomplish during the day -- it contains the washer/dryer (I'm forbidden from doing laundry anymore :), laundry table/storage and will also be her office and design room. Basically, her private space exactly as she wants it.
- Of course, having a laundry room in the office doesn't make much sense, so we'll be putting supply and drain lines in the large Pantry (in the walls). When we go to resell, we'll allocate part of the Pantry as the laundry, and move the washer/dryer in there. Then the Mom's Room will become a typical office or additional bedroom.
- We've swapped the mud room and the pantry, and also swapped the kitchen and dining rooms. This seemed to make more sense and I like the resulting floorplan/flow.
- We increased the size the foyer, taking some space from the Mom room.
- We don't want to swap the master bath and the master office area, as with the current configuration, the office area can be accessed from the hallway. For resale, this can be marketed as a separate office or additional bedroom (and would be easy to wall off from the master bathroom).
- We don't want to turn the upstairs bath into a Jack and Jill. We originally had it as a J&J, but after having a J&J in Atlanta, we realized that it gets too crowded with two doors and also gets complicated with one kid accidentally (or purposefully) locking the other out of the bathroom while trying to get privacy. Plus, a J&J makes it more difficult for guests to access the bathroom from the hallway, which we'd like to be able to offer.
- We're not sure what we'll do with the fireplace, but it's currently in the exact same place as it was in our previous house (interior wall). We never used it, but recognize that it's good for resale and we don't have any better place to put it.
- The kitchen sink in the island is a toss-up. I do all the dishes, and I'm pretty anal about ensuring they don't stack up, so I'm not concerned about that. But, it does seem a little atypical.
- There is no good place to mount a TV in the Great Room (other than over the fireplace). We don't plan to have one there (we'll use the basement for our "media room"), but from a resale perspective, some buyers may be concerned about not having good TV space on the main level.
- The drawing of the furniture in the master doesn't necessarily reflect how we'll stage it. It's a big room, so I'm pretty confident it will work from a furniture standpoint.
- We don't plan to have a window in the first floor bathroom or the upstairs shared bathroom (agreed with Steve that it doesn't work well in the shower), but we'll have a window over the tub in the master bath.
- And we agree that one big garage door is more optimal than two separate garage bays...my wife just isn't as accustomed to drawing exterior elevations and it didn't happen to come out that way. But, I imagine we''ll end up with one 20' door.
Open to any comments/questions/suggestions/insults...
@J Scott I like moving the mud room where you did and having the entrance from the garage there. We love our mud room and each of us has a cubby for all our stuff.
Moving the laundry is great as well, but I agree that it may get in the way of your wife using the room as an office. Since your not allowed to do laundry, and neither am I actually ;) , she can do it on off hours or when she's not working. We have friends that have a room like that with an office and their laundry. It works for them, so I'm sure it can be done.
Something was eating at me and I couldn't figure out what it was, so I took your drawing and threw in SketchUp and made a 3D model. The porch and the pantry window were what I wasn't seeing. That's going to be a big porch with a door on the far right and a blank wall. Then a window with a view into your pantry. I'm scratching my head on what you could do to improve that though.
Here's the very rough 3D model, if it help with your planning.
If you are familiar with SketchUp I can send you the file and you "fly" around inside and get a better idea. Obviously adding door, windows, etc will give you a better visual. I have to do this for my wife quite a bit, she is a very visual person and I've made probably a 100 of models for her over the years.
just a couple of things
I would dig out the area under the front porch & make it a walk in fireproof safe & weapon storage. Trust me this is a huge resale option!!
We had a non descript magnetic locked full steel door with a key pad entry.
But my next one will have this little door....
Also
If you can justify the added expense I would go with the following concept for basement walls...
http://www.superiorwalls.com/pages/products/xi-wall
When we finished a similar basement it was an absolute breeze esp with wiring runs etc.
I would also double up support of the engineered spans over the living areas because settling & weight upstairs may/will cause distinct drywall edge profiles if there is any movement over time & correcting it for resale is a LOT of unecessary work. Ask me how I know!!!!
For our recent 1500 sq ft addition I engineered 20 ft spans & even with the extra support it still seems to have some vibration when the grand children run & jump (on an 8lb pad under 62oz carpet). But I overkilled the ceilings with 5/8 drywall & much stronger joint compound.
Given the interesting open concept & 3 floors of active living space now would be the time to give serious consideration to the zoning of the furnace & a/c to ensure BALANCED heat/cooling. Easy to do in a new build, but you are going to have some interesting runs to supply all arrears. I stayed on top of the placement of ours & my sons new build because your avg HVAC guys will take a lot of short cuts.
Hopefully your hvac guy can phase a single hi efficient furnace & high seer rating a/c to ensure you can balance the comfort levels.
We split our existing furnace on the recent addition & it's been great. They tried to sell us a separate fce & a/c but I have a great HVAC guy & we efficiently used the existing system by splitting it with separate thermostats & solenoid run dampers to direct flow as required. If we could do it with the one fce etc for 5300sq ft your home should be a breeze!!!
Originally posted by Matt Inman:
Something was eating at me and I couldn't figure out what it was, so I took your drawing and threw in SketchUp and made a 3D model. The porch and the pantry window were what I wasn't seeing. That's going to be a big porch with a door on the far right and a blank wall. Then a window with a view into your pantry. I'm scratching my head on what you could do to improve that though.
Here's the very rough 3D model, if it help with your planning.
Matt -
This is awesome, thanks! My wife saw the SketchUp model (she's never used it) and was up half the night downloading and playing with it... :-)
If you don't mind sending me the file you used for the model above, we'd really appreciate it!
As for the windows on the porch and pantry, you're absolutely right that this design is suboptimal from an exterior ground-level perspective. I imagine we'll put in a pantry window and hope the view into that room isn't too bad. As for the porch, we'll have to put in a window for purely aesthetic reasons, but obviously it won't be functional, as the closet/stairs will be directly behind it.
We're open to suggestions, but this may just have to be a remnant of our design that we'll need to live with...
Pat -
Great feedback and suggestions...thanks!
Currently, the basement doesn't include the footprint under the Pantry, Porch and Mom Room. My wife actually drew a second configuration that includes part/all of that, and labeled it as a "secret" room, much like you suggested. Funny enough, the house currently sitting on the land was originally used as the local gun club -- the owner (who just passed away recently) managed the club out of his house during the 60s and 70s, and there is still evidence of the shooting practice that was done in the existing block basement.
Anyway, cost will be the driving factor here. I imagine that excavating just under the porch or one of those rooms will be a good bit more expensive due to the non-rectangular design (foundation and framing will cost more) and excavating a larger rectangle (under the Pantry, Porch, Mom Room) will be more expensive because it's just more excavation, foundation and framing. We're really trying to stay within our budget, so ultimately, the decision will be made once we start getting bids.
Good point about the HVAC design. Luckily, in Maryland, the weather is pretty temperate for a good bit of the year, and with the entire basement below-grade, I'm hoping the basement doesn't require a whole lot of heat or cooling. I was assuming we'd go with two systems, with one zoned between the main level and the basement, but now that you mention it, perhaps we can get away with one, if it's designed well. These are the details that I assumed we'd have to think about ahead of time, but are easy to forget about.
As for engineering the spans, this is far outside my area of expertise. I'm hoping our architect has some ideas, and will be bringing in an engineer as well. Like you suggested, I plan to be conservative in our design, even if it costs a little more.
Thanks for all the great thoughts, ideas and reminders...greatly appreciated!
Move the garage storage to the pantry, put the laundry/pantry/mudroom all on the back of the garage. That will give you three feet of kitchen wall space back. You might also be able to move the kitchen back to the rear of the house...
I am not familiar with your lot layout & garage storage seems large but a huge buyer preference here is a smaller rear garage door for the tractor access etc
Originally posted by Ben R.:
We want access to the mud room, pantry and laundry from the house, so the only real way to move them all to the garage space would be to make one big room, which I'm not sure would work. The funny thing here is that we don't need any extra space -- we actually have more than we need.
If we didn't need all the second floor space, we'd probably make the first floor smaller... :)