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Updated almost 5 years ago, 02/20/2020
Seller attempting to sue me for not buying property.
Hiya all. Well here's my situation.
I wanted to buy a second rental property after we moved to Hawaii for work and became bankable again. I was planning on using the HELOC money from our first rental as the downpayment. I found an agent here on BP from Wisconsin because I wouldn't buy in Hawaii and I wanted to get out of Illinois because the taxes were too high.
So I found a gut rehabbed 2 flat in Milwaukee Wisconsin. I put an offer and it was accepted. I sent the earnest money in time and scheduled the inspection. During the inspection, we found out much of the work was done poorly, including plumbing that didn't lead anywhere. We weren't able to inspect the electrical system because it was turned off from the main. There were other little things, but once I saw the basement walls I knew I didn't want it. Signs of water intrusion, shear wall cracks and a horizontal crack on all 4 walls. So I told my agent to let them know that unfortunately there were too many things wrong with the property and I have to use my inspection contingency to get out of the contract.
The agent told me the sellers don't want to cancel and have a right to make repairs. So I asked him to make a list with all the mistakes on the inspection. He did and we sent that over. Apparently, the sellers had three days to get back to us about these repairs but didn't until 8 or 9 days later. At that point, they said we need a structural engineer to inspect the property if we wanted them to address the structural issues. They said they'll fix the rest. I'm not sure if they did or didn't because they took too long to even reply. When my agent told them that the contract is void because they didn't have the standard 10 days to reply, but 3 according to our contract, they said they are going to sue us.
They dragged out the threats for two months. In the meantime, I ended up buying a rental in Chicago. I found out that the sellers and the selling agent's firm didn't have a contract signed so the agency sent me my earnest check back. I thought it was all done until I got a call from the agent today asking if he can give the lawyer my number.
I really don't have money to hire a lawyer right now and am unsure what to do. I always thought that if you operated fairly and honestly you wouldn't need to lawyer up and try to protect yourself. What do you think I should do? Should I hire a lawyer to speak with this lawyer on my behalf? I am honestly thinking about representing myself if this turns out to be a real lawsuit. If you have a good lawyer for Wisconsin, please let me know.
All in all, our next step into real estate wasn't as good as I thought it would be. Bad things can and do happen. I will keep you updated on how this turns out because this can honestly happen to anyone.
Thank you.
I'm not an attorney, but why would you allow your agent to do anything that doesn't directly benefit you? As I understand it, your agent wants to give your information to a 3rd party (some random attorney) not directly involved in this transaction. When in doubt, it is often wise, to keep your mouth shut. If an attorney wants to find you, let them hire a PI to track you down in HI and send you a registered letter. Don't make it easier for the to harass you.
Interesting their attorney already contacted you directly.
As mentioned earlier, don't talk to their attorney. Great advice / explanation from @Joe Splitrock on why. Basically, anything you say can be and will be used against you. And you are not a lawyer. As an EIT, would you feel safe having a lawyer doing your job? Then why would you do a lawyer's job?
There are a bunch of different parties that have legal liability. Your agent / broker are also parties to this.
As mentioned earlier, it would cost $20K to get into court.
You claim you don't have money to afford a lawyer, therefore you probably don't have the money easily for a settlement.
Sounds like the lawyer is just trying for a settlement out of you. They have not spent any hours on this case, besides a quick call. Lawyers are not cheap (in So. CA Real Estate Lawyers I have spoken with are around $350 to $500 an hour, and not all lawyers are created equal). There may also be some type of insurance covering the broker / agent, plus there is a potential threat to their licenses if you complain I would guess.
I would do a risk analysis, list out various scenarios, possible risk, potential cost, and make an informed decision on what you want to do based on that. There is a lot of good information in this thread.
Not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
@Ben I.
I don't know the contract laws or real estate laws in WI but I can only assume at this point.
..Take my assumptions, (maybe) as a guide to do more due diligence
#1- if they sent back the earnest. That usually means a "release from contract". If it was signed by the seller - that definitely means you were release. 100% of money back to you "usually" means, no damages to the seller 🤷♀️ but indeed look into that with your state statues. Even ask another outsider real estate agent with hypothetical questions ;)
#2 - I've sued sellers. I've sued brokers. Not proud to say but sometimes circumstances lead to that direction. Here's two legal terms you wanna look into....
"Anticipatory breach" and " repudiation" of contract "
Good luck and don't loose any sleep over it ;)
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
My two cents as a two-penny wannabe lawyer are this. You have little to worry about. Of course being threatened with a lawsuit is worrisome. Of course actually being named in a lawsuit is even more worrisome. But IMO, they have no case.
For starters they have to prove damages. What damages??? At best, they "suffered" a delay. The "damages" in this cases are highly subjective because, nobody can predict and therefore prove the future. Anything could have happened. So how does one go about quantifying damages in a meaningful way when what those damages are, and if they are even valid in the first place, is subjective? Now, I'm not saying a clever lawyer can't figure out how to make, argue and win a case like that, but I do know clever lawyers cost a lost of money and they typically don't work for free or only if they win in these cases. Therefore, and as others have already pointed out, it will likely cost more money to litigate this than it will cost for any damages awarded (emphasis on the word awarded). And even if they push for legal fees as damages, again they have to actually win AND the court has to side in their favor of legal fees. That's a lot of gambling if you ask me.
Then lets think about their case. What case? Contracts serve both parties and are in place for exactly the reasons you are experiencing - it's actually a way to perform a good faith agreement, and the first example of good faith is the willingness to enter into a written binding contract. Contracts exist to avoid court, not as a tool to go to court, though of course they become an extremely significant piece of evidence once you get to court. Why?
If you end up in court, it's because two parties can't seem to resolve an issue among themselves. This is a service provided by our society, and is a burden on our tax dollars. Many courts are subsequently not keen on the idea of frivolous lawsuits, and often throw stuff out really fast for that very reason. Of course that all depends on the specific court.
Your contract, entered into by both parties in good faith, and my opinion concerning the validity of the contract is this, if you and the seller signed the contract, it's valid. The relationship either of you had with your respective agents is a separate agreement, which you will notice includes a separate contract. While the agents might get dragged into this as material players, and they are subject to over-sight and discipline from the regulatory environment that governs their license, any issue you or the seller have with your respective agents would need to be addressed as a separate case.
You stated your contract was one that was a) entered into by both parties (do you have a written contract signed by you and the seller? Do you have anything additional that reflects the actions made with respect the the repair issue that came up later?), b) included a repair contingency that provided the seller the option to repair any defects (don't do that ever again) and c) had a timeline in which the seller was to respond (time is of the essence, I'm assuming your agents all used the standard WB-11 or, any contract that was written by anyone competent will have that as a condition).
Seems to me it is as you say. The seller had 3 days to respond with respect to their decision to repair or not repair. This is really IMO where this one hinges. There is a difference between providing a response to if they are going to repair and responding to how or when they are going to repair. If they got back to you and said, "yes, we are going to make the repairs" AND you have that in writing, then they might have leg to stand on. If they did not give you an answer if they were going to exercise their option or not, then they did not honor the time is of the essence clause and you had the right to exercise your option to walk away.
If it were me, I would be reading that contract and comparing what the contract says to what actually happened and what can be proven. This is what the court is going to do too. DO NOT respond to any phone calls, DO NOT provide ANY information whatsoever to ANYONE. Tell that agent of yours you will SUE THEM and REPORT THEM if they provide your information to anyone. (You might not actually be able to sue the realtor, for the same reasons it will be difficult to sue you, but your threats will have exactly the same affect on the realtor that the threats being made against you will have, is they will think twice about it).
Based on what you've stated and my two-cent understanding of the law, I don't think they have a case. The agents didn't think so either as the earnest money was returned however, you mentioned some nonsense about the seller not having a contract with their agent??? Good grief. Maybe what is really happening is the seller is furious with their agent and they are mistakenly taking it out on you. People are stupid sometimes and react in silly ways, in fact it happens all the time.
Finally, after my first advice of do and say nothing, if you do receive paperwork from a lawyer, do not delay and take that paperwork straight to your lawyer and go from there. IMO, there is nothing to worry about until that happens and even if that does happen, I don't think there is anything to worry about, save this is going to cost a couple hundred in legal fees at that point.
Finally, this advice is based on what you have said here. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but frankly I don't trust that facts have been presented as they really are. I say this because people accidentally mess up the facts all the time, and it is in fact, the facts, that will ultimately determine the outcome. This is why the lawyers on here are advising the first thing you do is get a lawyer. They deal with people who can't get it all straight all day long, it's one big reason they're in business!
So, get your facts straight and move forward (and maybe that means do nothing) from there.
Good luck!
PS - Hey Chicago cousins, I'm not really feeling the love from a couple of those passive-aggressive insinuations that WI agents are all a bunch of dippys. If y'all want to have a discussion on all the unsubstantiated outrageous generalizations each of our regions has concerning the other, we can do that. But I warn you will lose the one where we talk about which region has a long and documented history of being corrupt. Love ya FIB's! LOL (Me mum's side is from Chicagoland too.)
Thank you for that. Very helpful! I believe you are right. This whole thing hinges on them not responding to our repair requests within the provided window. See the section from our contract that stated they had 3 days.
It says at the bottom that the offer will be null and void if the seller doesn't timely deliver the written notice of election to cure. Seems very clear to me. If it weren't I wouldn't be putting this on a public forum. What do you think?
Hey, I'm responding because you asked, and from page 2 of the thread, I did not read through all the responses so, forgive me if this blown-up thread has covered this/is way beyond this point (6 pages lol).
Simply put, yes, I think they did not respond in time which gives you the right to walk.
I'm trying to curb my BP addiction and stop spending so much time here, so I'm going to let this one go and leave it to those with more skill/experience in these matters.
Good luck! You're in good hands here on BP IF you can weed through the nonsense and mine the nuggets - lol.
Almost all of the “advice” in this thread is from non-attorneys. Please speak to an actual attorney about your issue. Although someone may have gone through something similar, the law is nuanced and although they think their situation was similar, I doubt it was identical. I know BP is supposed to be a great resource, remember that the advice is worth what you paid for it. And if it’s keeping you up at night, please don’t rely on what a broker or “specialist” from Idaho or New Hampshire thinks you should do. Good luck.
Originally posted by @Kees Boer:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
@Kees Boer I'm not sure what a contiguity clause is. I guess my lawyer will have to look into it if they actually file a lawsuit.
To everyone else, I don't talk to the lawyer except to tell him to look at line 219 of the contract and to tell him that if he sues my lawyer and I will seek any available legal actions.
The lawyer called me and already lied. He said my agent told him to call me but my agent was asked if he can provide my info and then called me to ask permission. A small lie but not the truth nonetheless.
What I was referring to is that many contracts to buy, at least the ones that I have signed have a clause in them that says that the purchase is dependent or contingent upon the results of the inspection and that the buyer can back out of the deal for whatever reason he/she feels fit, until closing. Afterwards of course they probably can't return it. That would be Walmart... where one can do that. :-)
My contract had an inspection contingency, but the sellers don't seem to care.
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
@Ryan Seib very interesting. There was a time in my life when I would have wanted to do that but right now with three kids I'd rather not have to travel from Hawaii to Wisconsin for court dates.
First of all, to be sued they need proof of service. Proof of service occurs only two ways, certified mail receipt or a process server at your door. Simple solution is don't answer your door and don't collect certified mail. If they cannot serve you, there is no court case.
Secondly, you do not need to travel to Wisconsin. Your attorney can represent you without you being there.
Getting normal mail in Hawaii is a nightmare. Getting certified mail is almost impossible. You can't get to my door because of the fact that there is no doorman at the building and only people with proper keys can access the lobby, elevator etc. Sounds like this will be easy enough.
Originally posted by @Tchaka Owen:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
@Jay Hinrichs the lawyer called me today but my phone never rang, it went straight to voicemail. In the voicemail he said he has his marching orders to start on this Monday and was giving me a courtesy call to talk it over beforehand. I called him right back but he didn't reply. I highly suspect he wants me to stress about it over the weekend which is exactly what I won't be doing.
Ben, do not call him back!
You have nothing to gain by doing so. NOTHING.
No matter how nice an attorney may be (and some actually are nice people), they're hired to help their client. It's normal to think you can work things out or come to some understanding.....I'm telling you from first hand experience, it's a false confidence. "Anything you say can and will be used against you" firmly applies.
My consult is free. However, if you call him, I'll bill you $1000. >:-)
His number is officially blocked and I will not be talking to him. Thank you everyone :D
Originally posted by @Jack B.:
Originally posted by @Brandon Arce:
@Ben I. I simply would talk to their lawyer directly and expose your point of view, and the facts as to how you acted as per contract terms. Hopefully he will realize he has no case, and advise his clients. I would not hire a defense attorney (unless is free consultation) until you get an actual summons by the court, because until then it can all be threats and just talk.
This is bad advice, you do NOT talk to their lawyer. Their lawyer has no power. He is not a judge to convince for God's sake, this is terrible advice. The only person you need to convince is a judge/jury IF it ever goes to court. This would be so easy to throw out via a motion for summary judgement to dismiss with prejudice, the defendants attorney could literally motion the court right away pointing out the contract, response time was breached, etc. and a judge would immediately throw the suit out with prejudice (cannot be filed again).
I don't know why this is such a big thread/some are giving bad advice to convince their lawyer. These morons are in breach of contract. This is easy to prove. They have no case. This will never make it to trial, and I promise you they are not going to hire an attorney and have you served by a process server. Any attorney worth their salt would know this is a frivolous suit which would get them in trouble...
I hope one day I can have that kind of confidence. Have you gone through some of these situations yourself?
Originally posted by @Ron Galli:
I'm not an attorney, but why would you allow your agent to do anything that doesn't directly benefit you? As I understand it, your agent wants to give your information to a 3rd party (some random attorney) not directly involved in this transaction. When in doubt, it is often wise, to keep your mouth shut. If an attorney wants to find you, let them hire a PI to track you down in HI and send you a registered letter. Don't make it easier for the to harass you.
True, from now on, telling my agent they cannot speak on my behalf to any third party is not allowed will be my standard protocol. I will also require all communication to be through email so a paper trail is left.
Originally posted by @Zoran Stanoev:
Almost all of the “advice” in this thread is from non-attorneys. Please speak to an actual attorney about your issue. Although someone may have gone through something similar, the law is nuanced and although they think their situation was similar, I doubt it was identical. I know BP is supposed to be a great resource, remember that the advice is worth what you paid for it. And if it’s keeping you up at night, please don’t rely on what a broker or “specialist” from Idaho or New Hampshire thinks you should do. Good luck.
I spoke with a lawyer and he told me the same as most people here.
Everyone keeps saying talk to a lawyer; but at this point a) sellers have said they wish to sue you and b) a lawyer has requested your information. If the case never goes any further than this, you don't need to DO anything at all. People like to talk big and sling threats. When they find out what it will cost to follow through they likely will not follow through. (Lawyers may have the legal authority to give legal advice, but that doesnt mean people who aren't lawyers aren't also 100% correct... this is known as a call to authority fallacy.)
When they actually file a case, you need legal representation and should contact lawyers. At this point however, if it were me I would probably invite them to jump in a lake, otherwise keep my mouth shut and go back to focusing on my life.
-As a rule for life remember that anything you say can be held against you and you should never speak to a lawyer without one; but simply say nothing at all of possible.
-They didn't respond in the agreed upon contractual time.
- You didn't accept the repairs after your inspection contingency.
- A structural engineer never weighed in which you said you wanted.
- They didn't sign the contract with their own agent.
- You have 100% of your investment back.
- They are only 'out' the correction of substandard repairs to a property they retained.
I feel like this is much Ado about nothing, unless they actually make it something.
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
@Kees Boer I'm not sure what a contiguity clause is. I guess my lawyer will have to look into it if they actually file a lawsuit.
To everyone else, I don't talk to the lawyer except to tell him to look at line 219 of the contract and to tell him that if he sues my lawyer and I will seek any available legal actions.
The lawyer called me and already lied. He said my agent told him to call me but my agent was asked if he can provide my info and then called me to ask permission. A small lie but not the truth nonetheless.
Why would you help them, they're paying for the lawyers time....why give them then answer for free?
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
@Kees Boer I'm not sure what a contiguity clause is. I guess my lawyer will have to look into it if they actually file a lawsuit.
To everyone else, I don't talk to the lawyer except to tell him to look at line 219 of the contract and to tell him that if he sues my lawyer and I will seek any available legal actions.
The lawyer called me and already lied. He said my agent told him to call me but my agent was asked if he can provide my info and then called me to ask permission. A small lie but not the truth nonetheless.
Why would you help them, they're paying for the lawyers time....why give them then answer for free?
Honestly, if he would have picked up I would have told him. As of now, I blocked his number and won't be talking to him. I was hoping I'd tell him and he'd realize he has no case and stop wasting my time, but that won't happen.
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Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Zoran Stanoev:
Almost all of the “advice” in this thread is from non-attorneys. Please speak to an actual attorney about your issue. Although someone may have gone through something similar, the law is nuanced and although they think their situation was similar, I doubt it was identical. I know BP is supposed to be a great resource, remember that the advice is worth what you paid for it. And if it’s keeping you up at night, please don’t rely on what a broker or “specialist” from Idaho or New Hampshire thinks you should do. Good luck.
I spoke with a lawyer and he told me the same as most people here.
Wow. Well I'm late to your party here but your best advice is:
1. Don't talk to anyone.
2. If you feel like talking to anyone, make sure it's your lawyer only.
3. Don't sweat it.
I know it's hard to "not sweat it", but I have (yes, this is true) been sued 5 times. I mean officially with lawyers and servicing. 3 of them were from insurance companies (2 vehicle accidents, 1 house), 2 were from individuals in my capacity as an executive. Once I was sued by the EEOC! I spent less than $1000 on all 5 suits, and $500 of that was a settlement. The rest were dropped or dismissed. What you realize is that the result is way less scary than what you make it out to be in your head.
So you should just enjoy Hawaii. And look up @Brandon Turner while you're out there.
- JD Martin
- Podcast Guest on Show #243
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Zoran Stanoev:
Almost all of the “advice” in this thread is from non-attorneys. Please speak to an actual attorney about your issue. Although someone may have gone through something similar, the law is nuanced and although they think their situation was similar, I doubt it was identical. I know BP is supposed to be a great resource, remember that the advice is worth what you paid for it. And if it’s keeping you up at night, please don’t rely on what a broker or “specialist” from Idaho or New Hampshire thinks you should do. Good luck.
I spoke with a lawyer and he told me the same as most people here.
Wow. Well I'm late to your party here but your best advice is:
1. Don't talk to anyone.
2. If you feel like talking to anyone, make sure it's your lawyer only.
3. Don't sweat it.
I know it's hard to "not sweat it", but I have (yes, this is true) been sued 5 times. I mean officially with lawyers and servicing. 3 of them were from insurance companies (2 vehicle accidents, 1 house), 2 were from individuals in my capacity as an executive. Once I was sued by the EEOC! I spent less than $1000 on all 5 suits, and $500 of that was a settlement. The rest were dropped or dismissed. What you realize is that the result is way less scary than what you make it out to be in your head.
So you should just enjoy Hawaii. And look up @Brandon Turner while you're out there.
Wise suggestions. It's encouraging to hear you only had to spend that little on 5 total lawsuits.
And about the @Brandon Turner yes I've been meaning to reach out to him once I learn how to surf a little better lol.
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Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Zoran Stanoev:
Almost all of the “advice” in this thread is from non-attorneys. Please speak to an actual attorney about your issue. Although someone may have gone through something similar, the law is nuanced and although they think their situation was similar, I doubt it was identical. I know BP is supposed to be a great resource, remember that the advice is worth what you paid for it. And if it’s keeping you up at night, please don’t rely on what a broker or “specialist” from Idaho or New Hampshire thinks you should do. Good luck.
I spoke with a lawyer and he told me the same as most people here.
Wow. Well I'm late to your party here but your best advice is:
1. Don't talk to anyone.
2. If you feel like talking to anyone, make sure it's your lawyer only.
3. Don't sweat it.
I know it's hard to "not sweat it", but I have (yes, this is true) been sued 5 times. I mean officially with lawyers and servicing. 3 of them were from insurance companies (2 vehicle accidents, 1 house), 2 were from individuals in my capacity as an executive. Once I was sued by the EEOC! I spent less than $1000 on all 5 suits, and $500 of that was a settlement. The rest were dropped or dismissed. What you realize is that the result is way less scary than what you make it out to be in your head.
So you should just enjoy Hawaii. And look up @Brandon Turner while you're out there.
Wise suggestions. It's encouraging to hear you only had to spend that little on 5 total lawsuits.
And about the @Brandon Turner yes I've been meaning to reach out to him once I learn how to surf a little better lol.
He's really not as good as he makes out to be on the Podcast, at least from what I've heard from either reliable or sketchy sources 😂 Look him up anyway!
- JD Martin
- Podcast Guest on Show #243
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Zoran Stanoev:
Almost all of the “advice” in this thread is from non-attorneys. Please speak to an actual attorney about your issue. Although someone may have gone through something similar, the law is nuanced and although they think their situation was similar, I doubt it was identical. I know BP is supposed to be a great resource, remember that the advice is worth what you paid for it. And if it’s keeping you up at night, please don’t rely on what a broker or “specialist” from Idaho or New Hampshire thinks you should do. Good luck.
I spoke with a lawyer and he told me the same as most people here.
Wow. Well I'm late to your party here but your best advice is:
1. Don't talk to anyone.
2. If you feel like talking to anyone, make sure it's your lawyer only.
3. Don't sweat it.
I know it's hard to "not sweat it", but I have (yes, this is true) been sued 5 times. I mean officially with lawyers and servicing. 3 of them were from insurance companies (2 vehicle accidents, 1 house), 2 were from individuals in my capacity as an executive. Once I was sued by the EEOC! I spent less than $1000 on all 5 suits, and $500 of that was a settlement. The rest were dropped or dismissed. What you realize is that the result is way less scary than what you make it out to be in your head.
So you should just enjoy Hawaii. And look up @Brandon Turner while you're out there.
Wise suggestions. It's encouraging to hear you only had to spend that little on 5 total lawsuits.
And about the @Brandon Turner yes I've been meaning to reach out to him once I learn how to surf a little better lol.
He's really not as good as he makes out to be on the Podcast, at least from what I've heard from either reliable or sketch sources 😂 Look him up anyway!
That's encouraging. I'll reach out soon enough. Our newborn has to grow a little before I can convince the wife to let me ditch her for a weekend surf trip, even if it is with a famous man.
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Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Zoran Stanoev:
Almost all of the “advice” in this thread is from non-attorneys. Please speak to an actual attorney about your issue. Although someone may have gone through something similar, the law is nuanced and although they think their situation was similar, I doubt it was identical. I know BP is supposed to be a great resource, remember that the advice is worth what you paid for it. And if it’s keeping you up at night, please don’t rely on what a broker or “specialist” from Idaho or New Hampshire thinks you should do. Good luck.
I spoke with a lawyer and he told me the same as most people here.
Wow. Well I'm late to your party here but your best advice is:
1. Don't talk to anyone.
2. If you feel like talking to anyone, make sure it's your lawyer only.
3. Don't sweat it.
I know it's hard to "not sweat it", but I have (yes, this is true) been sued 5 times. I mean officially with lawyers and servicing. 3 of them were from insurance companies (2 vehicle accidents, 1 house), 2 were from individuals in my capacity as an executive. Once I was sued by the EEOC! I spent less than $1000 on all 5 suits, and $500 of that was a settlement. The rest were dropped or dismissed. What you realize is that the result is way less scary than what you make it out to be in your head.
So you should just enjoy Hawaii. And look up @Brandon Turner while you're out there.
Wise suggestions. It's encouraging to hear you only had to spend that little on 5 total lawsuits.
And about the @Brandon Turner yes I've been meaning to reach out to him once I learn how to surf a little better lol.
He's really not as good as he makes out to be on the Podcast, at least from what I've heard from either reliable or sketch sources 😂 Look him up anyway!
That's encouraging. I'll reach out soon enough. Our newborn has to grow a little before I can convince the wife to let me ditch her for a weekend surf trip, even if it is with a famous man.
Tell her it's a once in a lifetime chance to see a world-class beard in action :D
- JD Martin
- Podcast Guest on Show #243
I am so glad you blocked the number. Years ago our PM signed a contract to rent our Park City condo and for some reason used a VERY old lease that gave the tenants a right to a parking space in a garage where WE had NO parking space. They literally bought the rights to a space at great cost (about five times their commission for the year for managing it.) The tenants were rich little brats and just wanted out of the condo, so they sued. We had ZERO to do with it, but we were also nervous and scared, and took calls from both the tenant's and the PM's lawyers without consulting one of our own. They wanted $10K, (5K for moving expenses, $5K for suffering) to get out of the lease, and the last month's rent returned. Plus $3 K for their lawyer. PM lawyer talked us into "joining with" the PM. And then wanted to capitulate, saying Park City is small, the judge probably played golf with the husband's dad, bull **** on and on. I finally grew a spine. The condo was FURNISHED. They wanted $5K to PACK THEIR CLOTHES. I said I would fly out and do that in person. The $5K for suffering was due to the wife having to change shoes from heels to flats to climb the steps out of the parking garage. ALL STEPS in outdoor Utah are open mesh, to allow snow to fall through. If this Utah born idiot didn't know that, that was on her. She did not have any injuries. But in the end we agreed to the letting them out of the lease, giving them back their last month's rent, and paying $5K to the lawyers for both sides. Split with the PM, it was about $3K loss. We should never have taken ANYONE'S phone call, the PM should have eaten the whole thing. We let fear override common sense. I regained enough common sense to argue the $10K away, but we never should have paid a dime. Good luck.
Originally posted by @Nancy P.:
I am so glad you blocked the number. Years ago our PM signed a contract to rent our Park City condo and for some reason used a VERY old lease that gave the tenants a right to a parking space in a garage where WE had NO parking space. They literally bought the rights to a space at great cost (about five times their commission for the year for managing it.) The tenants were rich little brats and just wanted out of the condo, so they sued. We had ZERO to do with it, but we were also nervous and scared, and took calls from both the tenant's and the PM's lawyers without consulting one of our own. They wanted $10K, (5K for moving expenses, $5K for suffering) to get out of the lease, and the last month's rent returned. Plus $3 K for their lawyer. PM lawyer talked us into "joining with" the PM. And then wanted to capitulate, saying Park City is small, the judge probably played golf with the husband's dad, bull **** on and on. I finally grew a spine. The condo was FURNISHED. They wanted $5K to PACK THEIR CLOTHES. I said I would fly out and do that in person. The $5K for suffering was due to the wife having to change shoes from heels to flats to climb the steps out of the parking garage. ALL STEPS in outdoor Utah are open mesh, to allow snow to fall through. If this Utah born idiot didn't know that, that was on her. She did not have any injuries. But in the end we agreed to the letting them out of the lease, giving them back their last month's rent, and paying $5K to the lawyers for both sides. Split with the PM, it was about $3K loss. We should never have taken ANYONE'S phone call, the PM should have eaten the whole thing. We let fear override common sense. I regained enough common sense to argue the $10K away, but we never should have paid a dime. Good luck.
It's so crazy how one small action can drastically change the outcome of each of these cases.
I was definitely considering talking to the lawyer because I was thinking I could explain this to him and avoid this escalating, but it doesn't sound like that would be the case.
Not a lawyer and just stating what I would do in this situation. I would completely ignore them and not waste any money on legal fees. They have absolutely no case. Some lawyers will take on anything. Again, this is just my opinion.
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Jack B.:
Originally posted by @Brandon Arce:
@Ben I. I simply would talk to their lawyer directly and expose your point of view, and the facts as to how you acted as per contract terms. Hopefully he will realize he has no case, and advise his clients. I would not hire a defense attorney (unless is free consultation) until you get an actual summons by the court, because until then it can all be threats and just talk.
This is bad advice, you do NOT talk to their lawyer. Their lawyer has no power. He is not a judge to convince for God's sake, this is terrible advice. The only person you need to convince is a judge/jury IF it ever goes to court. This would be so easy to throw out via a motion for summary judgement to dismiss with prejudice, the defendants attorney could literally motion the court right away pointing out the contract, response time was breached, etc. and a judge would immediately throw the suit out with prejudice (cannot be filed again).
I don't know why this is such a big thread/some are giving bad advice to convince their lawyer. These morons are in breach of contract. This is easy to prove. They have no case. This will never make it to trial, and I promise you they are not going to hire an attorney and have you served by a process server. Any attorney worth their salt would know this is a frivolous suit which would get them in trouble...
I hope one day I can have that kind of confidence. Have you gone through some of these situations yourself?
Lol, YEP! And one time it hit me while I was in a 1.5 times full time summer schedule of an MBA program, sold a house, bought two houses, had 4 tenants moving and a full time Chief Application Developer job. The evidence and law was on my side, I stood my ground.
It was a tenant who I ended up giving notice to their first month of living there, ALLLL kinds of problems with them. Claimed they didn't know they had to pay utilities (it was in the lease). Claimed they didn't know what the address was (on the lease, I also got their drivers licenses in the mail after they left and all kinds of other mail that I had to forward to them, and on top of that this idiot 1) told me via email he got a utility bill in my name and opened it but yet he didn't know what to do 2) left me a threatening voice mail reciting the address that he claimed he didn't know, telling me he was coming to the house to get his deposit one way or another, the "evidence is clear" lolololol). I told this IDIOT I had just gotten off the phone with the Police and they were literally waiting around the corner, to let me know when you show up and that I would have him arrested for mail theft since they abandoned the property under WA law in writing....Then he claimed that I told them I promised them all of their money back. I told him to get bent and never heard from them again.
He was upset that I kept part of their deposit. I documented the condition of the house with GPS/date/time stamped pictures before and after they moved in. I had a strong leg to stand on, and it was clear to me why they had no address history for 10 years in their BG check. They have never had utilities in their name anywhere. They had claimed when looking at the unit that they had just moved here and were tired of living in a motel and just wanted the place that night. Trying to rush things. I ran their stuff and credit was terrible but no evictions or criminal stuff. After all was said and done, I reviewed everything that happened, trying to find what I missed. The address they put on their application was another rental house just miles away, not a motel...they had tried to pull the same scam with someone else. I was where they ended up next. They did have out of state plates so they weren't here long. They had almost nothing. Everything they owned they moved in their cars. I never heard from them again after I stopped responding. Plus, I've fought and won. I'm from a rough area. I'm not easily intimidated. It would be a big mistake for him to come onto my property and try to cause me problems. Court will be the least of his concerns...
Originally posted by @Jack B.:
Originally posted by @Ben I.:
Originally posted by @Jack B.:
Originally posted by @Brandon Arce:
@Ben I. I simply would talk to their lawyer directly and expose your point of view, and the facts as to how you acted as per contract terms. Hopefully he will realize he has no case, and advise his clients. I would not hire a defense attorney (unless is free consultation) until you get an actual summons by the court, because until then it can all be threats and just talk.
This is bad advice, you do NOT talk to their lawyer. Their lawyer has no power. He is not a judge to convince for God's sake, this is terrible advice. The only person you need to convince is a judge/jury IF it ever goes to court. This would be so easy to throw out via a motion for summary judgement to dismiss with prejudice, the defendants attorney could literally motion the court right away pointing out the contract, response time was breached, etc. and a judge would immediately throw the suit out with prejudice (cannot be filed again).
I don't know why this is such a big thread/some are giving bad advice to convince their lawyer. These morons are in breach of contract. This is easy to prove. They have no case. This will never make it to trial, and I promise you they are not going to hire an attorney and have you served by a process server. Any attorney worth their salt would know this is a frivolous suit which would get them in trouble...
I hope one day I can have that kind of confidence. Have you gone through some of these situations yourself?
Lol, YEP! And one time it hit me while I was in a 1.5 times full time summer schedule of an MBA program, sold a house, bought two houses, had 4 tenants moving and a full time Chief Application Developer job. The evidence and law was on my side, I stood my ground.
It was a tenant who I ended up giving notice to their first month of living there, ALLLL kinds of problems with them. Claimed they didn't know they had to pay utilities (it was in the lease). Claimed they didn't know what the address was (on the lease, I also got their drivers licenses in the mail after they left and all kinds of other mail that I had to forward to them, and on top of that this idiot 1) told me via email he got a utility bill in my name and opened it but yet he didn't know what to do 2) left me a threatening voice mail reciting the address that he claimed he didn't know, telling me he was coming to the house to get his deposit one way or another, the "evidence is clear" lolololol). I told this IDIOT I had just gotten off the phone with the Police and they were literally waiting around the corner, to let me know when you show up and that I would have him arrested for mail theft since they abandoned the property under WA law in writing....Then he claimed that I told them I promised them all of their money back. I told him to get bent and never heard from them again.
He was upset that I kept part of their deposit. I documented the condition of the house with GPS/date/time stamped pictures before and after they moved in. I had a strong leg to stand on, and it was clear to me why they had no address history for 10 years in their BG check. They have never had utilities in their name anywhere. They had claimed when looking at the unit that they had just moved here and were tired of living in a motel and just wanted the place that night. Trying to rush things. I ran their stuff and credit was terrible but no evictions or criminal stuff. After all was said and done, I reviewed everything that happened, trying to find what I missed. The address they put on their application was another rental house just miles away, not a motel...they had tried to pull the same scam with someone else. I was where they ended up next. They did have out of state plates so they weren't here long. They had almost nothing. Everything they owned they moved in their cars. I never heard from them again after I stopped responding. Plus, I've fought and won. I'm from a rough area. I'm not easily intimidated. It would be a big mistake for him to come onto my property and try to cause me problems. Court will be the least of his concerns...
That's what I'm talking about. This business sure isn't easy at times. We just had a crazy incident here in Honolulu where a tenant didn't want to move out so he stabbed the landlord, when police came he shot and killed two police officers and also set the house on fire, burning 7 other houses as a result. It just happened a few weeks ago.
The scary part is that you never know how crazy someone might be and I honestly would never let my guard down. I'm glad Illinois lets me conceal carry, to say the least.