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Updated almost 2 years ago, 12/29/2022
Toledo, OH
We are new to real estate investing and are considering the Toledo, OH market. Does anyone know about how long it takes to rent in this market? We are looking at properties in the 43612 zip.
Hey guys;
I hope you all are doing well.
I want to know which neighbourhoods are good to invest in Toledo Ohio ?
I referred a house in Ottawa neighbourhood
Is Ottawa a good neighbourhood?
Also do you know any property management companies offering Fix and flip projects to investors?
Thank you
Originally posted by @Poorya K.:
Hey guys;
I hope you all are doing well.
I want to know which neighbourhoods are good to invest in Toledo Ohio ?
I referred a house in Ottawa neighbourhood
Is Ottawa a good neighbourhood?
Also do you know any property management companies offering Fix and flip projects to investors?
Thank you
Ottawa Hills is A class and thus the cap rate is lower.
Top area tho
Much success
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
Is there any insight on zip code 43605 East Toledo; is it good market to buy?
Hey @Poorya K. living in the Toledo area, I tend to stay away from that zip code in east Toledo. @Engelo Rumora and his company Ohio Cashflow petty much own the city when it comes to investment properties. You should check out their website. I’ve worked with them and they’re great.
@Poorya K., I own about 20 SFR's in 43605. It used to be pretty good, but values crashed hard there in 2008 - 2010. I used to sell houses there for $75k. Now it would be hard to get $25k. Most rentals are worth about $15k. Lots of inventory, very few owner occupant purchases there anymore. Rents are low, about $700 max for a 3/1. As I'm sure you know, a $700 rent is tough to cash flow over the long term because of capex and turnover costs (one trashed house = $10k to rehab = all previous cash flow gone and years to make it back). My advice is to stick to higher value areas. The returns don't look as sexy on paper, but the sexy returns are usually bull$hit anyway because no one ever factors in capex or turnover costs.
Originally posted by @Isaac Shikwana:
Hey @Poorya K. living in the Toledo area, I tend to stay away from that zip code in east Toledo. @Engelo Rumora and his company Ohio Cashflow petty much own the city when it comes to investment properties. You should check out their website. I’ve worked with them and they’re great.
Dingoledo... hehe
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
Originally posted by @Ryan Pyle:
@Poorya K., I own about 20 SFR's in 43605. It used to be pretty good, but values crashed hard there in 2008 - 2010. I used to sell houses there for $75k. Now it would be hard to get $25k. Most rentals are worth about $15k. Lots of inventory, very few owner occupant purchases there anymore. Rents are low, about $700 max for a 3/1. As I'm sure you know, a $700 rent is tough to cash flow over the long term because of capex and turnover costs (one trashed house = $10k to rehab = all previous cash flow gone and years to make it back). My advice is to stick to higher value areas. The returns don't look as sexy on paper, but the sexy returns are usually bull$hit anyway because no one ever factors in capex or turnover costs.
Only 20 mate... lol
Ryan is being humble here. He is one of the bigger investors in the Toledo region (Ryan, I'm happy to blow some wind up your A$$) hehe
100% agreed here tho
15%+ "paper returns" look sexy but very rarely get achieved in real life.
Settle for 8-9% as an out of state investor
Much succces
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
Originally posted by @Ryan Pyle:
@Poorya K., I own about 20 SFR's in 43605. It used to be pretty good, but values crashed hard there in 2008 - 2010. I used to sell houses there for $75k. Now it would be hard to get $25k. Most rentals are worth about $15k. Lots of inventory, very few owner occupant purchases there anymore. Rents are low, about $700 max for a 3/1. As I'm sure you know, a $700 rent is tough to cash flow over the long term because of capex and turnover costs (one trashed house = $10k to rehab = all previous cash flow gone and years to make it back). My advice is to stick to higher value areas. The returns don't look as sexy on paper, but the sexy returns are usually bull$hit anyway because no one ever factors in capex or turnover costs.
ps. Ryan, where they really selling for $70,000+ in the 43605 zip?
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
Here is a "secret map" for everyone looking to invest in Toledo.
I have outlined the region that we buy 90% of all of our deals.
It's a solid B Class area in my opinion and only getting better as the years go on.
I wish you much success with your investing
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
I thought I'd be super friendly today and talk myself out of even more business haha
Check out further areas that I've outlined for anyone looking to invest in B Class properties
East of Toledo University has always been a steady rental market and I'm a bull on anything surrounding ProMedica
Thanks and have a great day
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
Has anyone abated properties in toledo recently. do you have a cost for doing so?
@DeWayne Mann why do you want to abate?
Abatement is very costly and it's usually 3x more expensive than regular remodeling. It has to be done by a special state certified contractor lead and certified workers.
Toledo has a new lead paint ordinance which will take effect this June 30. The ordinance doesn't require abatement but lead inspection on rentals (1-4 units) built before 1978.
@DeWayne Mann Abatement is only required in case of a lead poisoning and an order by the health department. The Toledo lead paint ordinance has 2 steps:
1. Visual inspection: rental property has to be free of deteriorated paint (chipping, peeling, etc) before 2nd step.
2. Dust wipe: 12 samples taken from window sills, troughs and floors in no more than 4 rooms.
For more information about the Toledo lead ordinance, feel free to join us.
I've been investing in Toledo for about 12 years and became a lead inspector to help landlords pass the inspection.
Adam Atassi
https://www.facebook.com/groups/227850067660312/ (Lead Ordinance Protest)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ToledoLeadSafe/ (Lead Ordinance middle ground)
Adam hosts the "lead ordinance compliance" discussion.
@DeWayne Mann - in full disclosure here are the groups focused on fighting the lead ordinance...landlords in Toledo have banded together and filed a lawsuit to fight the ordinance (those that haven't invested in becoming a lead inspector to profit from the ordinance).
Adam and I have been respectfully polar on the topic.
The lawsuit should be concluded this coming month, I personally will be thrilled when it's resolved one way or the other.
Here is the current status of the Toledo Lead Ordinance lawsuit: (we should be done with each side mailing letters to the judge, I believe we have about 500 pages total between the sides)
http://lcapps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/Docket....
Here's the link to download the latest reading material...each side is playing debate team with them arguing their side in the letters. (I'm not a constitutional attorney so I go cross eyed when I read the litany of citations)
http://lcapps.co.lucas.oh.us/PublicAccess/ViewPubl...
Finally below is the Go Fund Me for Lucas County and Ohio political action...we have this lawsuit pretty much funded but it has been obvious that we needed to be active about two years before the lawsuit. This fund is focused on funding landlord and investor involvement in our government...local, state and federal. Also so we never get caught flat footed again when improper regulations are sought to be passed.
https://www.gofundme.com/OHLandlordActivismFund
If you invest in Lucas County you should be participating in your local REIA, a member of Ohio REIA (the state level organization) and actively watching the regulations in your area of investment.
(Andrew R Fidler is Vice President of PIN - Property Investor's Network, Secretary and Board Member of OREIA, involved in his local government helping landlords, investors, and realtors cooperate with our government services for mutual success.
He is one of the founders of the lawsuit against the Toledo Lead Ordinance and in one of several to accept financial liability for fully funding the lawsuit. Andrew is not benefiting one penny from the GoFundMe, PIN, OREIA or the Lead Ordinance)
- Andrew Fidler
- [email protected]
@Andrew Fidler GOAL $75,000!!!! What happened to the $35,000?
Either way, it looks like there is no public interest in funding the lawsuit even after 2 years.
Hi @Adam A. - $35k was just the lead ordinance lawsuit and it’s essentially funded.
$75k as a target fund would set us up with a war chest to be able to conduct simultaneous lawsuits should that ever be necessary.
More to the point we would be well organized to support expert witness, legal advice, and ongoing political involvement so we wouldn’t require a lawsuit again in the future.
I look forward to the lead lawsuit being old news. It has been the keystone of our PIN groups founding for sure and a call to action but it’s almost resolved.
- Andrew Fidler
- [email protected]
I got involved and opposed this ordinance right from the start, however, when it passed we had to adapt to the new change.
When Toledo REIA asked for help, I answered and got more involved. They asked for volunteers to become lead inspectors to help in compliance. Out of 4,000 members, I was the first to take on the challenge with 2 other fellow members. I was the only member who became part of the Lead Task Force (LTF) to discuss the ordinance with Lucas County Health Department (LCHD) and Toledo City Council. I was asked by LCHD to write them some notes about what was wrong with the ordinance from an investor/landlord point of view. I represented them with a 12 page report. However, it took 4 months of bi monthly meetings for a breakthrough. Finally, the Toledo City Council and LCHD adapted 5 of my recommendations when they amended the ordinance April 2017.
I never felt the ordinance was fair and I kept pushing, trying to tweak it and dilute it. The experience of Toledo REIA to negotiate was the right call instead of a lawsuit. They knew that such a lawsuit was a waste of money and energy since they were involved in such a similar lawsuit before.
As I recall, city councilmen, Peter Ujvagi, Larry Sykes and Sandy Spang were very receptive and accepted my suggestion of holding a meeting with both REIA and PIN board members. The meeting went on without PIN, due to the refusal to participate.
The vast majority of PIN members were (and still are) against the lawsuit. The lawsuit destroyed any final and remaining hope to continue negotiations especially when we had the chance with the new mayor.
Lets go back to that respectful disagreement Adam...I don't have an interest in discussing the lead ordinance on BP.
There's a time in political activism to ask, request, suggest and recommend...there's also a time to bring the matter to a judge which is where the lawsuit came in. Respectful challenge to authority is as American as apple pie.
Note as well the new mayor, I strongly suspect we will have some major developments in Toledo before this June deadline hits...I wouldn't spend any money on wipes and lead experts till that has all occurred.
- Andrew Fidler
- [email protected]
Originally posted by @Adam A.:
@Andrew Fidler GOAL $75,000!!!! What happened to the $35,000?
Either way, it looks like there is no public interest in funding the lawsuit even after 2 years.
Adam,
Funny thing here is that I offered to fund thew entire amount myself a couple of years ago.
My voice wasn't heard as unfortunately too many folks are caught up in their own stereotypical ways.
"Success" seems to be frowned upon with some.
I did "manage" to chip in $100 at the ORIEA when the person walked by with a sign lol
Thanks
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
Thanks as always Engelo! Yeah we had a great turn out at the OREIA convention.
What's your opinion on the 2018 market? I'm seeing more and more interest and activity in Toledo real estate investing.
- Andrew Fidler
- [email protected]
@Engelo Rumora I remember discussing the cost with you. But I think giving away 2 of your houses to people in need serve a much better cause than a lawsuit. The reward and the satisfaction of donation beat giving $$$$ to attorneys anytime.
A lawsuit is the last line of defense and not the first. From my own experience, the only winners are the attorneys.
Originally posted by @Andrew Fidler:
Thanks as always Engelo! Yeah we had a great turn out at the OREIA convention.
What's your opinion on the 2018 market? I'm seeing more and more interest and activity in Toledo real estate investing.
No worries mate,
Downtown seems to be blossoming but our "bread and butter" B class looks pretty much the same to me.
I've heard from quite a few folks that the SFH market is getting "hotter" but I just don't see that happening.
We still seem to be buying quite a lot of product without much competition
Low inventory for A class is great news and all multifamily deals have been snapped up.
So to summarize, the market is much better than when I started 6 years ago lol
Great to see you contributing on here more frequently
Much success
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89
Originally posted by @Adam A.:
@Engelo Rumora I remember discussing the cost with you. But I think giving away 2 of your houses to people in need serve a much better cause than a lawsuit. The reward and the satisfaction of donation beat giving $$$$ to attorneys anytime.
A lawsuit is the last line of defense and not the first. From my own experience, the only winners are the attorneys.
Agreed mate,
I just wanted my pretty face on TV haha jokesss
I'll just have to run for mayor next time I guess lol
Thanks.
ps. I need to give 3 houses away this year. I refuse to accept a PR campaign so let me know of any charity's that we could do a "hush hush" giveaway with
- Engelo Rumora
- Podcast Guest on Show #89