Markup for architecturally significant house?

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Markup for architecturally significant house?

Peter Martinson
New to Real Estate · Greater Philadelphia · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 10 votes
My wife's grandparents hired Frank Lloyd Wright to design their home, which was built in the early 1950s.  It's a 4br/2.5ba 1700sqft Usonian style home with a great view (sorry, can't give away the location just yet!).  However, it needs a good $100-150k in repairs/updates, which may be significantly higher due to specialty construction.

Since the grandparents passed away, the children are thinking about selling.  Is it possible to ballpark the selling price of something like this?

Zillow's Zestimate says ~$350k.  A national auction house estimates $700k, and a local agent estimates $600k.  The nutball sister estimates $2 million.  It would be listed on one of the FLW sites, like https://franklloydwrightsites.com.  So, it's likely to be seen by some fans of Wright's work.

Is that $2m a realistic estimate for something like this, or is that just wishful thinking?

Thank you!
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
2y

A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

Trust the agent, they're the professional.

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  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    That sounds a bit crazy to me, the $2 million when it needs repairs and updates. Do they have proof that Frank Lloyd Wright was the architect? That will certainly help the value, but not up over $1m difference from local experts who know the house.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

    Trust the agent, they're the professional.

    [email protected]301-893-4635Podcast Guest on Show #192
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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

    Trust the agent, they're the professional.


    Russell..  in the SF peninsula and down to Cupertino there was a builder who built about 30k homes in the 50s and 60s  called Eickler these were modern heat in the floor tons of glass interior walk ways with gardens in them etc etc.. very unique .. In Portland about 1960 ish someone knocked them off and built not sure how many lets say 500 or so and they are called Rumor's these in the PDX market will sell for a premium but maybe 50 to 75k over same area and sq ft. I dont really know what a FLW house would bring a premium or not except his famous one I think its in WI house on a rock or something like that.
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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

    Trust the agent, they're the professional.


    Russell..  in the SF peninsula and down to Cupertino there was a builder who built about 30k homes in the 50s and 60s  called Eickler these were modern heat in the floor tons of glass interior walk ways with gardens in them etc etc.. very unique .. In Portland about 1960 ish someone knocked them off and built not sure how many lets say 500 or so and they are called Rumor's these in the PDX market will sell for a premium but maybe 50 to 75k over same area and sq ft. I dont really know what a FLW house would bring a premium or not except his famous one I think its in WI house on a rock or something like that.

     Yeah an architect can absolutely bring a premium. It's just that said premium is $500-100k range, not the $1.5 million premium the ops asking about.

    We have 2 architects here that bring premiums. Harry Wardman, he brings about a $50-70k premium over comps, and Charles Goodman who brings a $75-100k premium on his larger houses and $25-50k on his smaller houses.

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  • Jonathan KlemmBusiness Member
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    Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    That is super cool that Frank Lloyd Wright designed your wife's grandparents home!

    I think it depends on the uniqueness of the house and neighborhood....if there isn't comps to support it...you are solely banking on someone buying ONLY because of FLW.

    I would surely get some second opinions no matter what

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  • Peter Martinson
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Greater Philadelphia · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 10 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

    That sounds a bit crazy to me, the $2 million when it needs repairs and updates. Do they have proof that Frank Lloyd Wright was the architect? That will certainly help the value, but not up over $1m difference from local experts who know the house.

    Thanks for the response!  We have blueprints and correspondence between the grandparents and FLW.  Also, it is in the National Register of Historic Places.
    But, yeah, I saw a few FLW houses that broke $2m, but they look like they're in really good shape.
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  • Peter Martinson
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Greater Philadelphia · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 10 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

    Trust the agent, they're the professional.

    Thanks for the response!  I saw a few other FLW houses that were bought up by groups of investors, so they went for several millions of dollars.  So I'm wondering what are the chances of a wild offer by a team of investors.  For example, https://normanlykes.com/
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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Peter Martinson:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

    Trust the agent, they're the professional.

    Thanks for the response!  I saw a few other FLW houses that were bought up by groups of investors, so they went for several millions of dollars.  So I'm wondering what are the chances of a wild offer by a team of investors.  For example, https://normanlykes.com/

     Is yours a potential luxury home on a multi acre estate or on an island? Or is it a regular house in a neighborhood?

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:
    Quote from @Peter Martinson:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

    Trust the agent, they're the professional.

    Thanks for the response!  I saw a few other FLW houses that were bought up by groups of investors, so they went for several millions of dollars.  So I'm wondering what are the chances of a wild offer by a team of investors.  For example, https://normanlykes.com/

     Is yours a potential luxury home on a multi acre estate or on an island? Or is it a regular house in a neighborhood?


     And that house, is 1.5 years on market, and its in an area with other houses that are in the $5-15 million range.

    So I do find it hard that the agent who looked at it is determining based on comparable sales that the property is $600k, could get to $2 million. A property listed at $9 million, even through the neighborhood shows comps at $5-15 million, still isnt selling after 1.5 years. That means its overpriced....which means, the people who bought it think its worth more than it is simply because its a Frank Looyd Wright. The market has proved them wrong.

    A quick look at the comps are showing the $5 million homes there are twice the size. So Im going to say they should be under $5 million, which means theyre off on price by over 50%

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  • Peter Martinson
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Greater Philadelphia · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 10 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:
    Quote from @Peter Martinson:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    A few years ago a Frank Lloyd Wright house that needed a bunch  of work in Chicago was listed for $175k. After a couple price drops it's sold for $135k.

    Trust the agent, they're the professional.

    Thanks for the response!  I saw a few other FLW houses that were bought up by groups of investors, so they went for several millions of dollars.  So I'm wondering what are the chances of a wild offer by a team of investors.  For example, https://normanlykes.com/

     Is yours a potential luxury home on a multi acre estate or on an island? Or is it a regular house in a neighborhood?

    It's just a family home on maybe an acre of land in a neighborhood.  Not luxury to live in, but a classic piece of FLW architecture.
    0Reply
  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    2y

    Sell to the sister for $1.2M and let her make a killing.  Win win. I’m a nice brothe, I’d let my sister but it for $1M even. And she’d get a discount as some of the sales money would come back to her. 

    Put in on an auction site and pry get $400-$600k but at least you’d know the “market value”. Hopefully the sister puts in an $800k bid. 

    “People” always think something they already own is worth more than they’d pay for it if they didn’t own it. 

    Good luck and let us know what happens. Assuming nobody wants to live in it, especially at any exaggerated values, sell it tax free asap and move on. 

    0Reply
  • John Warren
    Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @Peter Martinson I was involved with a deal in Riverside a few years ago. My buyer ended up backing out as the home needed just a ton of work. Ultimately, the Frank Lloyd Wright aspect can be a blessing or a curse. The homes are so cool architecturally, but they are truly a labor of love if you want them to have certain modern amenities. The one we were looking at really needed all new wiring and quite a bit of exterior woodwork to be redone. 

    A very good local agent would be the starting point of the conversation for me personally. The local community matters to the value quite a bit. 

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